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Thread: The Trans Regret Movement

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    The Trans Regret Movement

    As much as I hear stories of trans in the news, there seems to be an other side of Transsexuals who regretted their transitions. A lot of these people are used to claim that gender reassignment isnt the answer.

    Do you think its just a case of these people misdiagnosed or mistakenly thought they were transexual? Perhaps some people are transsexual and some people are gender fluid. Maybe a few do have other issues. Its possible that both sides exist. Rather then there being one right answer.

    I just think its an interesting debate. Because it confuses me when I hear the counter stories.

  2. #2
    Gold Member Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    The highest profile "regretter" is Charles Kane, a very rich playboy who decided to try a Designer Vagina thinking it would help him bed more people. He didn't suffer from Gender Dysphoria and bought his way past all the checks and balances that some members like to pretend are just Gate Keeping. It didn't make him more sexually attractive so he reversed the procedure and set about telling everyone he could about the evil people who force you to transition.

    There is a website that takes trans peoples words out of context to try to create a (false) narrative of trans regret. The author of that website apparently has no regard for truth.

    There are a number of people who cannot cope with the realities and often the loneliness of transition and we mourn their loss.

    Finally, there may be a few who were non-binary before we understood much about that condition and who may have thought that transition was their only option. Fortunately, you do not have to be male bodied to be non-binary
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    Diamond Member Persephone's Avatar
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    I agree with Riana's post but think that there ŕre additional issues and complexities that need to be explored.

    And, of course, I do not agree with those who use regret or any other issues in an attempt to undermine or distort the reality of transgender.

    That said, however, I do think that transition is not for everyone, that there should be no guilt nor negativity attached to a decision to return to one's birth gender or to explore options outside of binary gender transition.

    There are, without a doubt, individuals who transition and who do genuinely regret transition but having openly told family, friends, and the world of their transition feel that there is no way to return. I believe this accounts for a considerable number of post transition suicides.

    Just as we support and welcome those who are in the process of transition I think we need to support those who wish to return. Not only are we then helping those individuals, we are helping to defuse the argument of those who use regret against us.
    "If you are living the life you want to live you've successfully transitioned to being the person you want to be." - Eryn.

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    Silver Fox Sheren Kelly's Avatar
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    People who make mistakes in choosing to transition are to be expected. I know of one personally who detransitioned. It is a difficult decision and one that should not be judged by others. Society still has a bias to binary gender expression, and some people will neither fit one nor the other. I see the younger generations being more accepting of gender diversity, so my hope is that we will eventually all have a place somewhere on the gender spectrum that is respected.

    Still most detransition accounts that I have read seem to leverage the complaint: "no one told me that this would happen......" as if they had no responsibility for due diligence in deciding to transition in the first place. While there are resources that will help one transition, the ultimate decision and responsibility rest with the individual. Accounts where a detransitioner now regrets their decision and places blame on those who supported their choice are harmful to the vast majority of those whos lives were saved by transition, and plays into the hands of those who want to stigmatize us as unstable.

    I just saw another account today in my Facebook feed that came from "The Federalist", a conservative group that has featured several articles critical of the Trans identity.
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  5. #5
    Silver Member Rachael Leigh's Avatar
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    As one who is just starting this transistion journey I worry about this at times, will I regret this can I go back without looking foolish. Yes I have these thoughts but as each day goes by in this beginning I find how much I’ve already changed
    my outlook is more positive and others I interact with have noticed this too.
    I’m aware that there will be some downs but I do belive this is right for me
    Rachael

  6. #6
    Transgender Person Pat (aka Jennie)'s Avatar
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    Up until recently most of the cases of regret I had read of were people who got bottom surgery and later realized they weren't TS but were actually some form of non-binary transgender person. Their biggest complaint was that there was not enough information about alternatives available. Their medical team was focused on TS transitions and they failed their gate-keeper/check-and-balance role.

    Lately someone's been flogging a study out of Eastern Europe that shows 7 out of some number like 5,000 had regret and tried reversal. While I have total sympathy for anyone who ends up in that situation, I'd honestly be shocked if there weren't some number of people who end up with regret. My assumption is they went through the process focused on a goal and not paying attention to their own big picture until they had "achieved" it and only then realized it wasn't what they wanted. I see it happen in so many other endeavors I can't believe it wouldn't happen here as well.

    Rachel, I think it is correct and healthy for you to question yourself. Don't take an irreversible step if you're unsure. But don't let "I dare not wait upon I would / Like the poor cat i' the adage." (Wow - look at me quoting MacBeth....)
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
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    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

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    The only “regret movement” is the one invented and flogged by the haters.
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    After changes upon changes
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    After changes we are more or less the same.

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    Country Gal.... Megan G's Avatar
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    I completely agree with LeaP, the only regret movement is fuelled by haters. I'm sure there are some people out there that regret transitioning and most likely these are the ones that rushed thru all the checkpoints.

    I met one person during my surgery a couple weeks ago that said they had no idea they were trans until they watched the Caitlyn Jenner interview two years ago. Had no signs of gender issues and it never crossed their mind until they watched that show... and two years later they had their GRS the same day as me. She said she was a woman, but made zero effort presenting as one. I seriously thought she was non binary at best and I could not sense any femaleness to her at all.....These are the ones in my mind are going to have a hard time in life and may come to regret it in the future.

  9. #9
    Gold Member Teresa's Avatar
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    DressyJenny,
    I guess it's part of the reason why it takes time to proceed through transition in the UK if you go the NHS route , by the time you reach the surgical stage you're fairly certain .
    We have TS members at the social group , it's good to talk to them to fully understand exactly what it means and the sacrifices you make to achieve it.
    Even if the surgical side goes well the relationship side can go badly wrong , losing the support you thought you had can be devastating .

    I've finally realised that I'm not confused over the sexual issues but have problems with gender identity , that is down to AGP in my case , the confusion I have is others with AGP have transitioned to satisfy the need to be seen and accepted as a woman . That seriously is quite a driving force at times , I believe I'm partly going through a separation to satisfy that need , so it will be a social transition for me .

    The question I've asked before is what happens when the T level drops , I read on another forum that some people's needs changed when the T level diminished naturally or by hormones . I also asked an expert in this field and the examples I received were inconclusive .

    Some might say we get so hung up on labels they almost block thoughts on living comfortably as we feel , we use the label and feel compelled to achieve it . We are never going to get this 100% right we know we are at odds with mainstream society , there are two battles going on , one internal and one external , so finding true peace and contentment is going to be difficult at times .

    LeapP,
    I'm not sure I agree with that, the decision is a tough call, some are bound to get it wrong but to say it's only haters can't be right in all cases.
    Last edited by Teresa; 10-12-2017 at 06:32 PM.

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    My response addressed the notion of a “movement” - not whether the vanishing few talk themselves into a disaster.

    This is a discussion in search of a problem.
    I am older than I once was,
    And younger than I'll be. ...
    After changes upon changes
    We are more or less the same;
    After changes we are more or less the same.

  11. #11
    Aspiring Member grace7777's Avatar
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    I am now living full time as a woman and I am very happy with my decision to pursue transitioning. In am now on HRT and hope to have SRS in the next 2 years. Before ever starting transitioning I put myself through a lot of tests to make sure transitioning would be right for me.

    It can be expected there will be a few who will regret transitioning, but for a lot of us it has made our lives a whole lot better. The haters are only focusing on people who regret transitioning and not on people who are happy they transitioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheren Kelly View Post
    I just saw another account today in my Facebook feed that came from "The Federalist", a conservative group that has featured several articles critical of the Trans identity.

    I think thats the article that I saw too. It sounds like the two subjects had poor professional care that rushed them through the steps of transition. Which I can see where that would lead to a big issue after transition. You should never transition if there is some doubt.

    I think a major issue here is the recent trend of transition in minors and whether they are ready to transition at such a young age. Is puberty blockers damaging if the person ultimately decided they are not transgendered? But I suspect this is on a case by case basis as well. Nothing should be done lightly.

    I probably shouldn't have used the word movement in the title. It was really meant to be a discussion about trans regret and concerns it might bring up. The discussion is really good so far. Thanks.
    Last edited by DressyJenny; 10-12-2017 at 07:53 PM.

  13. #13
    Silver Member Sometimes Steffi's Avatar
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    Yes, the Federalist. If you look hard enough, I sure you'll find some who regrets the change. Buy when you have an advocacy position, there is a large possibility of slanting the story.

    There are a few writers that seem to be constantly advocating an anti trans view.

    My view is, "Be careful what you wish for." And I ignore them.
    Last edited by Sometimes Steffi; 10-13-2017 at 09:11 PM.
    Hi, I'm Steffi and I'm a crossdresser... And I accept and celebrate both sides of me.

  14. #14
    Emerging Diva Nikki A.'s Avatar
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    In making such a life changing decision, it is inevitable that there will be some who will regret making the change. But the number seems to be very small compared to those who are happy with their decision. Some will rush into this without going through all the protocols, others are simply trying to get away from one life thinking that this choice will be easier or better.
    As for myself, I have thought about it and I'm still not sure what path I will ultimately travel, maybe I will just decide to stay in the middle and just live a bit in both worlds. So far, this is the path I am taking

  15. #15
    Gold Member Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    I've finally realised that I'm not confused over the sexual issues but have problems with gender identity , that is down to AGP in my case , the confusion I have is others with AGP have transitioned to satisfy the need to be seen and accepted as a woman.
    Teresa, The so-called condition of AGP is a discredited attempt by Ray Blanchard to pretend that all Transsexuals are sexually deviant homosexual men. His so-called research has been thrown out by the medical and psychological communities all around the world. I am aware that there are some in the Male to Female Crossdressing forums who have proudly adopted this discredited theory and to label themselves as sexually deviant homosexual men - even in some cases whilst telling us about their great relationship with their wives - however, amongst transsexuals this made-up condition is seen for what it is - an attempt to smear us and to prevent us from receiving the correct treatment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    the decision is a tough call, some are bound to get it wrong but to say it's only haters can't be right in all cases.
    I am going to have to take issue with you again. Haters invent things to use against us, or they distort the truth by misquoting people such as happens on the "trans regret" website. They deliberately do as much harm as they can, even to the extent in some cases of indirectly causing the death of a trans person.

    Quote Originally Posted by DressyJenny View Post
    I think a major issue here is the recent trend of transition in minors and whether they are ready to transition at such a young age. Is puberty blockers damaging if the person ultimately decided they are not transgendered?
    Jenny, I believe that puberty blockers have been used in other circumstances for quite a long time with no documented cases of harm to the recipient. I seem to recall a mention of their use in the 1970s in a case that was not trans related but cannot find the reference. As far as I can see, the "dangers" are all in the minds of those who oppose human rights for trans people.
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 10-13-2017 at 01:28 AM.
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    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    "I've finally realised that I'm not confused over the sexual issues but have problems with gender identity , that is down to AGP in my case , the confusion I have is others with AGP have transitioned to satisfy the need to be seen and accepted as a woman . That seriously is quite a driving force at times , I believe I'm partly going through a separation to satisfy that need , so it will be a social transition for me .

    The question I've asked before is what happens when the T level drops , I read on another forum that some people's needs changed when the T level diminished naturally or by hormones . I also asked an expert in this field and the examples I received were inconclusive .
    "

    No wonder you are confused

    The driving force to transition is that you are a woman. End of story... nothing to do with what gives us orgasms.

    The reason to drop your T hormone level is that you are a woman.... what it does to your sexuality is just bringing it inline with who you are...

    if dropping your T level makes you forget about living and being a woman, that's fixable, its not trans regret, its adjusting the medical treatment of Gender dysphoria

    making it any more complicated will cause nothing but problems
    I am real

  17. #17
    Transgender Person Pat (aka Jennie)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    Jenny, I believe that puberty blockers have been used in other circumstances for quite a long time with no documented cases of harm to the recipient.
    I see they're used in the treatment of precocious puberty (defined as onset of puberty more than 2.5 standard deviations before the societal average -- it varies by race and country.) It looks like it was first defined in 1969 so it might be a case of that you're recalling. One source said that there are 200,000 cases per year in the US.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

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    Is this about transition (alone), transition with SRS, both??

    Regret rates typically relate to surgery. SRS regret rates are exceedingly low. Moreover, when there ARE regrets, they are more often about surgical complications - not regretting having the surgery per se.

    I don’t see a problem here. Trying to morph it into a discussion over youth transition raises a host of other issues. Still, I don’t see regret there as a problem, either.

    Again, a thread in search of a problem.
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    After changes upon changes
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  19. #19
    Aspiring Member Georgette_USA's Avatar
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    The idea of regret and de-transition has many reasons. Some think that transition will fix all ones problems. Some are not properly diagnosed with other conditions.

    Again some history.
    In the dark ages there was very little restrictions on who or how people got HRT and/or SRS. It was mainly left to the surgical teams for their requirements for SRS. HRT was the domain of GPs Psychiatrists or Endocrinologist. Prior to WPATH was few if any Gender Identity Clinics or Gender Therapists.

    During my process in 1974-1977, No WPATH or clinics. My Psychiatrist relied on Harry Benjamin's 1966 book, The Transsexual Phenomenon. I would have had a harder time to transition under some of the new WPATH/SOC that was to come. Most surgeons required time with HRT and full-time RLE of a year. I had about 1.5 year of HRT, but lived as a female part-time, about 6 months except for work. My employer had legal problems with my working as a female, as I was not legally/physically female. The surgeons agreed to shorten mine to 6 months more after my employer agreed to my full-time RLE.

    "WPATH was originally named the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association, after Harry Benjamin, MD (1885-1986). Dr. Benjamin was one of the first physicians to work with gender dysphoric persons."

    "In 1979 the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association was formed, using Benjamin's name by permission. The group consists of therapists and psychologists who devised a set of Standards of Care (SOC) for the treatment of gender identity disorder, largely based on Benjamin's cases, and studies. It later changed its name to The World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH), but still reveres its links to Harry Benjamin."

    From what I gathered that the early WPATH and SOC, was heavily reliant on "GateKeepers". They had some very weird and restrictive ideas. And they were applied differently in different countries.
    They have modified many of that over the years.
    There may be some here that transitioned in the 80s-90s that can share some light on the evolving WPATH/SOC.
    There are many new TG/TS that want to eliminate any kind of Gatekeeping and use "Informed Consent".
    Obviously people of means can always find ways around any use of WPATH/SOC.

  20. #20
    Silver Member AmandaM's Avatar
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    This topic scares the hell out of me. I'm newly trans, not a crossdresser any more. I might transition or I might not. I've read of people who have taken hormones and then stopped. This is good if that is what they need to do. The best thing I know how to do is to take my time and explore myself. Every movement to transition must be a questioning point, not a goal. I don't want any regrets.

  21. #21
    Chloe liked her new body docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Some people live very unhappy lives or r just unhappy folks for any number of reasons. GD, money, family, friends, no partner, bad marriage, bad job, etc., etc. It's reasonable for most of these people to wish to be happy. And may key their happiness to certain changes in their life.

    Win the lottery.
    Find the man/woman of their dreams.
    A better job.
    A divorce.
    Join a social club.
    Change their gender.

    In my experience, when your happiness depends on outside events/changes/people, u may be disappointed. Some people r positive in nature, others the opposite. Inevitably, some people will find the change that was supposed to magically change their life didn't!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  22. #22
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Some people regret their transition because they later realized that they were never actually a transsexual to begin with, but were in reality suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). This is a condition where a person creates an alternate personality (i.e. a dissociative identity) as a coping mechanism to deal with childhood [sexual] abuse or some other severe traumatic event. This is what happened with Walt Heyer, one of the most vocal 'trans regret' activists out there. He was sexually abused for many years by multiple relatives. There is also a fairly recent account (just this year) of a formerly active member at Susan's Place who went as far as having bottom surgery (orchi) before realizing that he actually had DID and wasn't actually transgender. He was fully convinced that he was trans and had even appeared on television talk shows to advocate for the trans community. These examples are part of the reason why it's important to talk to a therapist and to be fully honest to both them and yourself about your entire life history, in order to make sure there aren't any underlying issues of DID.

    There's also a very real danger of getting SRS done and later regretting that decision. I think Lynn Conway does a pretty good job of listing some examples of SRS regret at her website link here. I personally believe that it's especially dangerous for someone who is, or used to identify as, a crossdresser to transition. The story of Dani Bunten Berry should be required reading for those who used to identify as CD and intend to have SRS. It is a very sad cautionary tale.

  23. #23
    Junior Member Sara Olivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaM View Post
    The best thing I know how to do is to take my time and explore myself.
    Amanda,
    If you follow through on your own advice you will not have regrets. Just do explore yourself, take your time and know that you are truly transgender before doing anything that is not reversible. Also I totally agree with Kaitlyns comment that "the driving force for transition is that you are a woman. End of story." There is no other reason that should warrant taking hormones or undergoing any surgery that can impact the rest of your life. Also perhaps you should explore what has changed that where before you said you were a crossdresser now you are newly trans. I don't think these issues need to scare the hell out of you but you have to take them very seriously, explore them and I'd go as far as saying to seek professional help from a psychologist who deals with transgender issues. I believe then you will find the answers that are right for you.

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    Wasn't trying to scare anyone or say I agreed with the naysayers. Was just curious what the rebuttal to these people were. Since it was a different viewpoint than the ones on our side. But I could definitely see where someone that rushes into transition with the wrong help could have this problem. But its irresponsible for thet side to just assume all transexuals will regret their transition just because they did . Everyone is there own person.

    On puberty blockers. The article mentioned something about Jazz (the transgendered teen with he own reality show) had trouble with getting the SRS she wanted because there wasn't enough material to work with due to the blockers. Not sure how accurate that is or isn't. I always thought the blockers did nothing permanent. But I am not a doctor.
    Last edited by DressyJenny; 10-14-2017 at 11:25 PM.

  25. #25
    Silver Member AmandaM's Avatar
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    This is why therapy is a must. I had six intake sessions, where the possibility of being full-on transsexual came up, and have been referred to a gender therapist. The first therapist encouraged me to incorporate more fem things into my life slowly, take stock of how I feel, and then add more as I go. She said you have to go down the road to see where you end up. I may stop before SRS, no way to know. It's better than having a therapist be a cheerleader egging you on.

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