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Thread: Is Blanchard's discredited theory real?

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    Is Blanchard's discredited theory real?

    Rianna,Kaitlyn,
    I'm not going to be drawn into a heated argument over AGP, there is far more information available and work being done beyond Blanchard , I have made contact with several who have helped me through my situation. I'm just going to beg to differ on your opinion and leave it at that . Sadly on this issue the forum has very little to offer, apart from total condemnation , please consider this is a condition and one I am coming to terms with but I had to go away from the forum to get answers and the help I needed .

    The T level is an important issue, some have found with blockers that the need to dress ebbs away or reduces to a level where GD is a very manageable problem.

    I don't have all the answers and I doubt very much that you have them all, maybe give other people some space and consider their situation.

    I haven't visited the "Trans regret ", website and have no real need to , when you talk to real people you soon find out what the truthful situation is about transition.
    Last edited by Teresa; 10-13-2017 at 12:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Good luck with all that . You clearly need it.

    The forum has nothing to offer to YOU

    And yet you post and post Lol

    I'm impressed however by your ability to create straw men and use buzz words that make other ideas somehow seem nasty like "condemnation" to make your point.
    I don't use words like that. You do
    I don't condemn you. I feel bad for you

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    Kaitlyn,
    You obviously think you have something to offer other members but you turn to sarcasm when you run out of ideas in support of other people who live with a different situation.

    To call medical professionals straw men is insulting to them and me when I have found answers with them . You talk of support and help on this forum but at times this section is hypocritical and destructive , Condemning the "Haters" is laughable when there are a fair share right here. Some of you need to look to yourselves before playing the high and mighty with other members whose lives are just coming together .

    I don't need your sarcasm I will make it on my own , many thanks for being here !

  4. #4
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    Rianna,Kaitlyn,
    I'm not going to be drawn into a heated argument over AGP, there is far more information available and work being done beyond Blanchard , I have made contact with several who have helped me through my situation. I'm just going to beg to differ on your opinion and leave it at that . Sadly on this issue the forum has very little to offer, apart from total condemnation , please consider this is a condition
    Blanchard's discredited hypothesis is not accepted by the international medical or psychiatric community. It is not a condition, it is an attempt to miscategorise transsexuals as male homosexual paraphiliacs.

    Ask yourself why you only see condemnation of this discredited hypothesis here. It is not a true description of any transsexual person known to this community, to the medical community worldwide or to the international psychological or psychiatric communities.

    By all means class yourself as a paraphiliac if you must, but do not expect trans men and women to take Blanchard's insult lying down.
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    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    I'm not going to be drawn into a heated argument over AGP, there is far more information available and work being done beyond Blanchard , I have made contact with several who have helped me through my situation.
    Teresa - could you give some references? I've read a couple of Blanchard's papers and came away with the sense that he had cause and effect reversed. I'd be interested to read up on the work that's been done beyond him. This is not a trap -- I'm really interested to know.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

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    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Exclamation Moderator's Note

    This has been moved from another thread where it was a distraction from the intent of the original post.

    Would all members who wish to contribute to this thread please remember to keep it civil and stick to facts.

    Any post that derails this thread will be deleted.

    Kind Regards
    Rianna Humble
    Moderatrix

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    Diamond Member Persephone's Avatar
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    I don't have a dog in this race. The only Blanchard I know of is a line of food products named Blanchard and Blanchard (http://www.kedem.com/brands.php?id=23). Their salad dressings are rather good.
    But I do know that bitter disputes, harsh words, and "everyone agrees" are antithetical to scientific methods and the advancement of knowledge.
    Teresa is a long-time active and contributing member of this forum. She has found something that she finds helpful and that seems to make her feel comfortable. She may be right, or it may be a wrong turn in her journey but it doesn't seem appropriate for us to be prickly, offensive, and alienating.
    We are here to study, to learn, and to be supportive of one another. This forum should be a "safe space" for discussion.

    Hugs,
    Persephone.
    "If you are living the life you want to live you've successfully transitioned to being the person you want to be." - Eryn.

    "If you truly care about me you should damn well want for me what I want for myself" - Michael Westen (Burn Notice)

    -.-. --.-/-.-. --.-/-.-. -../ Persephone™ and Persephone™ are trademarks of Persephone herself, accept no substitutes. The terms "en femme" and "en drab" originated with Marcia Sampson/Staylace (OBM).

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    Persephone,
    I am so grateful you've posted this reply, it's good to see rational reasoning and acceptance of the different driving forces inside us.

    When I first joined this forum there was one aspect I wanted to clarify and that was how my CDing started. Eventually I bit the bullet and told my story in this section titled, " The feeling just won't go away !". No one has related to my story for whatever reason , I don't believe I'm unique, I'd hate to think they're not too afraid because of adverse comments from other members .

    I do appreciate the haters among members here because Blanchard got it wrong , you could say he mislabeled certain members of our community. The important point he got the ball rolling , he was a bit of an arse and had the attitude that if you think I've got it wrong , go prove it ! So I looked beyond him to more recent work and took my chance in contacting several doctors in this field directly , Pat has asked for names I'm reluctant simply because I respect them and the information I received , I will not let some members drag their names through the mud on irrational grounds .
    They are allowed to read this section as guests and the one that proved most useful told me I am a classic AGP case . We exchanged several Emails , to clarify certain points , the first being all the papers and information sent to me only related to TSs , I needed to relate AGP to TGs. When I received those updated notes, the penny truly dropped . My history, my needs and thoughts fitted like a glove , this work was more up to date and relevant to far more CDers . My second point was the one concerning Tlevels as I know it is my main driving force. Again I received information and several case studies , the conclusions are inconclusive , some lost the need to dress, other still went on to full transitions . Our wiring is all different so it's not surprising the outcome was inconclusive .

    Rianna has thrown in all the old Blanchard's misdirected thoughts and labels , AGP covers a wide spectrum or levels of GD, the labels don't concern me because they don't change the feelings inside . Something happened in the womb circumstances came together in early childhood and indelibly imprinted what crossdressing means to me . It doesn't matter what section I use here the answers will be different but I know what makes me tick , to live with that I'm heading for separation to live my life in my new home possibly dressed full time.

    My plan is to run an art group from my home as Teresa, I have contacted the SAA ( Society of All Artists) , to ask if any other TG members exist doing the same thing . They have been so positive and offered full support when it finally happens The only labels that will matter then are the colour ones on the side of the paint tubes .

    I
    Last edited by Teresa; 10-14-2017 at 04:38 AM.

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    Country Gal.... Megan G's Avatar
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    AGP;

    proponents of this diagnosis are claiming that people express gender variance not only because they are aroused by possessing a certain body part, but also because they are sexually aroused by humiliating themselves or their loved ones, and that they get a sexual kick out of appearing in public as female, because they respond sexually to the responses of nonconsenting persons like strangers, coworkers and friends, in the same way an exhibitionist gets off by flashing people.

    Teresa,

    If the above was taken from this link...

    http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/autogynephilia.html

    If that is how you want to be seen/classified by other people than by all means have at it but I have a hard time beliveing that you want to be seen as a sexually charged deviant. The most venomous "anti transgender" haters in this world use AGP against all trans women claiming that we are not women, we are sexually deviant men who get off by forcing out sexual desires on other people...

    And your ok with this?!?!?!?

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    I suggest reading Julia Serano’s article on the subject:

    http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2015...a-deniers.html

    In addition to covering the basic points, it brings them up-to-date in terms of more recent work (through 2015 anyway).
    Lea

  11. #11
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    thank you lea....

    teresa I have zero sarcasm...none.
    I am deadly serious...

    you are trapped in your own mind...going in circles..

    here's a surprise perhaps for you..

    I get sexually excited over my gender. I spent my entire life being in a fantasy world where I was a girl...and I masturbated constantly, and when having sex I fantasized about it..
    it tortured me...
    and it convinced me that I was an uber crossdresser....and I felt sad and hopeless... why can't I be a "real" transsexual.....there was no place for me.... I read sites, the girls there all said the same thing....

    but over time I realized what was going on...over time I realized that my sexuality got screwed up.... I found support in my group when I brought this up...my group had about 15 people...and 4 of the transitioners chuckled and said "me too"....that's when it hit me

    I read all about Blanchard....sorry but burden of evidence is on anybody that believes in his hateful garbage...

    you ask for evidence? my evidence is my life...and many other lives
    you call transsexuals haters? that is just an awful, mean and ignorant thing to say..
    it says to me that you have no idea what you are talking about..(and another btw, there are some haters out there..but they are not here....its irrelevant to the conversation and its one of the straw men you bring into conversation, there is no respone other than I am not a hater, but the accusation stands....its irresponsible and it takes you out of the conversation and it positions you as an ad hominem user...and I guess I will admit my response had elements of that but thats not what I meant.)

    and say I have no ideas.... ask around...I have helped so many people here...
    the burden of proof is on you...the inability to manage your life in a way that is not tied to stupid and mean spirited "theories" makes me sad...that's why I said that...no sarcasm, just feeling for you..

    anyway
    I got my act together... I realized that i was transsexual, I learned about GD ...I was highly influenced by Julia Serano...a fearless and honest person...sharing her life in detail...something I do here...

    and I was especially influence by an Anne Vitale article

    http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm. ( you'll have to type it in)

    that's why I say good luck...thats why I say I feel bad for you.... you are in a trap of your own making...I can't say why...

    I fully support non binary....I fully support folks that don't transition but fight their gender dysphoria,....I know how impossibly difficult it is to transition.I did it...
    and btw...my experience is that feeling didn't go away ...but boy did hormones help me....it was so much less, and it actually felt natural...the HRT made me feel whole....

    and as that feeling reduced, it made me need to transition.... I couldn't function as a male...I lost so much, but I transitioned... I had too....

    so dress full time, be who and what you want to be... but the way you communicate here, and the support of discredited ideas, pushing what you are doing as opposed to just sharing it for what it is....it all grates ...sorry
    Last edited by Kaitlyn Michele; 10-14-2017 at 08:39 AM.
    I am real

  12. #12
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    it doesn't seem appropriate for us to be prickly, offensive, and alienating.
    Persephone, perhaps you would like to back up your accusations using the Report function on those posts that you categorise as offensive or alienating. Those allegations should be tested in the proper way, not by being thrown into the discussion and left hanging.

    Please do not follow up here with specific allegations as they would tend to derail the thread.
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    This is predicated on my understanding of blanchard' agp being mostly correct....

    Teresa, think about your sexual fantasies. Is Teresa the focus? Do you fantasize about yourself as teresa only? Or, do you fantasize about having sex with other people, as Teresa? Sex is one of our most basic drives, and for guys that drive is constant. Even still, the psychological component to sex is huge. If your entire life you've been physicallly wrong bodied, but occasionally allow yourself to think about how it would be to have sex with someone in the right body, as an attractive female, do you not think it would be sexually exciting and stimulating?

    Imagine your entire life you were a had to wear a clown costume when intimate with someone. You don't have a particular aversion to clowns, but you're not a clown, so having to wear the costume puts a damper on the sexy time parade. So most of the time you fantasize about how amazing it would be to have sex not wearing the clown costume, and quite honestly, being clown free makes you feel super sexy and it turns you on. A lot. And the thought of having sex with another person sans clown is amazing. you don't fantasize about your clown free self, but the thought of it can be arousing. And the thought of being loved, accepted and intimate with someone without the clown costume, is the the most amazing fantasy, and totally out of reach (you think).

    So are you the target of your fantasies, or is the idea of teresa being free, loved and intimate with another?

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    Member Becoming Brianna's Avatar
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    Kaitlyn, that article you linked to was a major driving force behind my "oh my God I think I might be TS" moment Many of my experiences resonated with Group 3 in the article (the shame that came from my thoughts The sneaking around to live out and explore my femininity The retrenchment and suppression of these thoughts in pursuit of trying to be a male, but the constant return to dysphoria that seemed to hit me stronger each time)

    More to the central point of this thread: I remember rationalizing these feelings and whenever I would fantasize about being a woman that I'm just afraid I'm not measuring up as a man or I'm just trying to create my own girlfriend because I couldn't seem to attract one on my own Yet here I am with degrees a job an income and a girlfriend and yet I am still struggling. I fear greatly living a life of regret but I also fear making the wrong decision. That's why I often find myself stuck along my journey. I remember watching a YouTube video of a MTF TS who summed up Autogynephillia beautifully: Blanchard does flip-flop cause and effect It's not the fantasy that drives the identity, but the identity that drives the fantasy. A TS is attracted to the thought of sex as a woman for the simple reason that she is in fact a woman She's just experiencing the same thoughts any other cisgender woman would have except she is influenced by testosterone which drives her response to those thoughts and the frequency of those responses.

  15. #15
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Exactly.

    According to Blanchard I'm a male fetishist. Guilty of systematic distortion

    His words

    Pure ignorance. Pure hatred. Pure annihilation of everything that I am.

    If that works for you. Go for it. Makes me sad for you. To me. That means you are a cross dresser co opting my identity to try to explain your life choices. Or you accept the shame I lived with before accepting my own transsexual identity.

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    Megan,
    I have read that,article and it does not apply to extent you imply . No it's not a case of humiliating anyone , I'm not a sexual deviant. One aspect I accept is wanting to be seen and accepted as a woman . I have no intention of using AGP against any group, there should be no talk of haters on this forum. To quote one article which is way off the mark from the information I have is not doing the issue justice .

    Kaitlyn,
    I did mention my thoughts on Blanchard . I did not imply all TSs were haters but this section does have a problem with aspects of that .

    Sorry I take great exception to you comments on my life being based on mean minded theories , that is your opinion but far from the truth and my life . I have stopped going round in circles because I've accepted how AGP relates to me , if we met personally I'm sure you would realise I'm not screwed up over these issues. The problem I'm having is finally escaping a controlling DADT situation, I know it's not going to be a bed of roses when I'm free but I can at least integrate it fully into my life , what labels I live under will be irrelevant . I do have many friends who I enjoy being with dressed and they enjoy my company. I don't see any traps in that I just want to escape my current entrapment .

    If I go further with transition it will be to deal with my inner feelings and not prove or disprove something to you.

    Reading your last reply I can't help feeling sorry for you . You appear to be accusing me of having screwed up views , I believe you have issues you haven't come to terms with yourself and are trying to vent them through me .

    Nikki,
    Please don't overdo the sexual aspect but also remember I have not had intimate contact with my wife for over ten years , I'm still fully functioning sexually. I know the basic meaning of AGP but you are more correct in saying that as Teresa I would like a relationship with another GG. I will add after 43 years of marriage and my age it's less likely to happen which does make my situation so much more difficult.

    Brianna,
    Your last sentence, does make sense apart from the feeling is more associated with TGs than TSs .
    Last edited by Teresa; 10-14-2017 at 01:45 PM.

  17. #17
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    As Rianna explained, Blanchard's work is old, primitive, and discredited. However, even a broken clock is rite twice a day!

    Altho, I know where I am on the T scale is a lot more complicated, Blanchard's theory defines, "a man’s paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman."

    This part of his hypothesis does apply to me. However, the rest of his AGP ideas don't. Nor do they come close to describing what most of my T friends experience!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  18. #18
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    ...Pat has asked for names I'm reluctant simply because I respect them and the information I received , I will not let some members drag their names through the mud on irrational grounds .
    Actually, Pat only asked for references to the "information available and work being done beyond Blanchard" that you mentioned. And my only purpose was to read it and perhaps understand. As I said, it's not a trap -- the only Blanchard I've read is Blanchard himself. If someone has extended his work -- and I don't care who it is (unless you're going to say it was Paul McHugh. ) -- I'd like to see what they've done.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

  19. #19
    Aspiring Member Fiona123's Avatar
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    I happened upon this thread by accident. Very interesting though. I thought Blanchard was completely discredited.

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    Country Gal.... Megan G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    I'm not a sexual deviant. One aspect I accept is wanting to be seen and accepted as a woman .
    This is the goal of every single TS person on this planet (I think). So what other aspects of AGP do you feel apply to you that would make you feel that this is a "condition" that you suffer from. Just because you want to be seen and accepted as a woman does not mean you have AGP, it could just simply mean your identity is female and it's trying to assert itself.....

    You would do yourself a HUGE FAVOUR if you could seperate your sexuality and sex from everything and just work on your identity. Figure that out than let the sexuality fall in line where ever it does...

  21. #21
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Teresa, if you are looking for a word to describe yourself you may want to look into the term 'crossdreamers'. It is related to AGP but it's not the same. There are a lot of articles at that blog site that talk about it; you may find some personal insights there.

  22. #22
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiona123 View Post
    I thought Blanchard was completely discredited.
    You were correct, Fiona. Blanchard's pseudoscience has been totally discredited. Unfortunately, that does not stop some of his followers pretending that his hypothesis has been proven rather than debunked.
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    OK let's take this right back to basics, if you stand a group of us in line in front of a group of the general public, what will they see ?
    I line of people, wearing clothes not entirely suited to their gender, they won't see what is in our heads driving that need and won't know how different our anatomy is . To me that is the core and fundamentals of this forum , we stand together, offer a united front and support each other. I admit updated work on AGP with TGs in mind deals with my sexual and gender issues but as we are all wired differently it's not for everyone. In five years time I could come back here and admit I got it all wrong but then that could relate to many of us .

    Maybe Rianna was hoping I could explain more to help others as this was her idea or she might be hoping given enough rope I could hang myself. I did say I didn't want to get into a heated argument , I have so much going on in my personal life maybe I should have just backed away from it.
    At the moment my house is for sale , because we are going to separate , I have to deal with all the fallout from this, my wife is sticking tightly to the DADT status , I'm trying so hard to keep it amicable for the sake of my children and grandchildren and on my wife's insistence I'm having to lie about the move and separation to my mother in her eighties. While I appreciate others could be in a similar situation or worse getting embroiled in CDing arguments is not good for my mental state . I know what makes me tick , leave it at that until I can find the freedom to explore the situation more.

    On this basis I was going to ask Rianna to wind this thread up , to most Blanchard is a dirty, despicable word but there appears to be a reluctance to look beyond him.
    The one regret about closing this thread is the aspect of knowing I'm not unique in this situation , I'm sure many are reading this and nodding in agreement but are too scared by the reaction to stick their heads above water to voice an opinion .

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