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Thread: what would be the point of spending a fortune?

  1. #1
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    what would be the point of spending a fortune?

    TG have different financial situations. Some like me are pretty broke while others have more than enough to get every surgery and treatment there is for transitioning to a new gender.
    It also depends on what someone wants and needs.
    TG often compare themselves to others in terms of looks and passability. Kind of how women size each other up as do men.

    So this is where things are going, let me back up a bit...

    I was reading some stuff about Jazz Jennings. Skimming thru a few youtube videos about that show she has etc...

    Here are the things about her - She does not claim to be more woman nor look better than a GG. Yet, no one is going to look at her and think "male" (if not for her gender status being known already). She passes about as well as can be.
    Yet, plenty of bloggers or comments explain how Jazz is really a male and chromosomes cannot be changed or whatever.

    Now for less fortunate TG who are NOT so passable nor pretty say like Caitlyn Jenner, of course there are hate comments etc but no one is out there going "You cannot change your DNA".

    It is like the better one passes due to early start, a lot of effort, surgery etc... the anti-TG crowd just digs deeper for stuff to remind them of their birth gender.

    Among the TG community, the less advanced tend to envy or look up to the more advanced but to the general public, the most passable TG in the world is no different than a horrific looking one. They are both "still men".

    It seems even harder to understand why some TG who are young, pretty, passable etc would out themselves willingly, like some of these youtube TG who are more concerned about developing a following than trying to live a new life that they instead throw away by constantly and voluntarily outing themselves. "Ok so I am transgender, make sure to like and subscribe".

    So some TG are either obviously not born female and never will quite pass OR they make it known whereas no one would have guessed otherwise because they DO pass.
    In both of these cases, what would be the point of more surgeries? Do not even get me started about how some of the non-passers won't even try to train their voices, which is 100% FREE of charge.
    It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.

  2. #2
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Everybody is different. Im sure lots of folks dont understand the choices you've made either.

    I spent the money, and i pass so effortlessly that i could dress in a business suit and people would think its a halloween costume

    i did it to feel good about myself...and i outed myself because i am what i am...

    lots may feel differently, or envy me, but maybe i envy them for having their act together mentally better than me, or transitioning earlier than me, or keeping their job, or their marraige!!...etc...

    dont look at others is what im saying..

    and yes those ignorant haters are brutal...they dont really care about you or me... they are just blathering hatred out over the world...if not on us, it would go somewhere else...it makes me sad, but i learn to let that go
    I am real

  3. #3
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    I pass extremely well and am even lucky enough to be considered very beautiful, but I don't think anyone should envy me. I paid a very high price in that not a single family member or relative accepts me. I have 2 family members who will tolerate me, but they do not fully accept me. And I was told never to show up at any family gathering, wedding, or funeral ever again. I've never been married or had kids so I am truly alone. Yes I have friends (they are amazing) but as you all know it's not the same thing as family.

    So at least from my personal experience, being passable does not necessarily help with acceptance. But I still spent the money for FFS, still spent the time for voice training, and will still spend money for more surgery. Because I did it for me, and to ease my gender dysphoria - not for anyone else.

    As for why some trans women don't train their voice, I guess it's for the same reason - gender dyphoria, or in their case the lack of it. Maybe for some, their face or body or genitals are a source of gender dysphoria, but their voice isn't. I always thought it was interesting that Jennifer Finney Boylan, someone that many in the trans community looks up to, never trained her voice.

  4. #4
    Aspiring Member grace7777's Avatar
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    For me voice training is very important. What good does it do to have a passable appearance, but be exposed when you open your mouth and speak. I have been able to develop a female voice with practice, so now I am mostly getting called ma'am on the telephone.

    I am now on HRT, and have started to have some breast growth, but they still are not that big. I do not see myself having breast enlargement though. Not every natal woman has big breasts either, so I think I can get buy with smaller breasts.

    As to surgery, I definitely want to have SRS and the sooner the better. Having male genitals is causing me a lot of gender dysphoria. SRS is definitely the top surgery on my list. FFS is something I do not see as necessary now. Also, money is limited.

    In the future I would like to do a hair transplant. Right now I am wearing a wig and will have to for the rest of my life without a transplant.

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    Some people...and I'm not saying all so don't jump me, are, well, attention seekers. They simply thrive on it. If you're TS, there's plenty of that to be had if you're vocal about it. As far as people and their genetics argument? Haters gonna hate and their ain't no way around it. Same thing as the politician that's railing against homosexuality and then giving fellatio in a bathroom stall. Hamlet's mother always comes to mind, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." It's always curious regarding those that try to destroy us that have no skin in the game.

  6. #6
    Gold Member Read only Rachael Leigh's Avatar
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    As one just beginning my journey to transistion my goals for now are HRT and continue to improve my look, possibly get
    Electrolysis because of already being grey laser won’t work for me.
    I hope I will pass to a point but there will always be give aways but to me I don’t care, I do have limited funds and the more
    expensive surgeries just won’t be possible for me.
    Like you Erin and others my family just doesn’t get me and my need to present myself as a women but I just move on
    and hope someday they can
    Rachael

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirya View Post
    As for why some trans women don't train their voice, I guess it's for the same reason - gender dyphoria, or in their case the lack of it. Maybe for some, their face or body or genitals are a source of gender dysphoria, but their voice isn't. I always thought it was interesting that Jennifer Finney Boylan, someone that many in the trans community looks up to, never trained her voice.
    I imagine the real reason some do not voice train is because it is not as practical to just buy one's way into it. Voice training really isn't THAT hard to begin with. There is like this threshold that is hard to get over but after that, cake walk. I mean there is voice surgery but it does not sound natural.
    As far as what causes gender dysphoria in someone, I would think not even using a female voice would cause it BIG time.

    Quote Originally Posted by grace7777 View Post
    For me voice training is very important. What good does it do to have a passable appearance, but be exposed when you open your mouth and speak. I have been able to develop a female voice with practice, so now I am mostly getting called ma'am on the telephone.
    IS IT EVER important! I do not know about anyone else but when I see a really passable TG person but then hear a man voice, it is like "Oh yeah, whatever". Like if someone were showing off their new car but it would not even start. Plus voice training is free.

    Free is in my price range!
    Take my thin wallet. Empty the lint out. Throw it in the trash! I will take something for nothing!
    It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.

  8. #8
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole Erin View Post
    I imagine the real reason some do not voice train is because it is not as practical to just buy one's way into it.
    I expect that is the real reason for some, but not for all. I expect Mirya's theory is correct for others. (In fact, I know such people.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole Erin View Post
    As far as what causes gender dysphoria in someone, I would think not even using a female voice would cause it BIG time.
    We don't get to choose what makes other people dysphoric, though. And I'm pretty sure none of us like it when others tell us what (should) make us dysphoric. For some voice is paramount (I took a voice seminar where one of the women dissolved into tears at the idea of recording her voice to gauge progress -- she couldn't handle hearing 'That Voice.') For others, clearly, it's not as important. I expect the majority of trans-feminine people would like to have feminine voices, but some/many/most don't have it as a priority over whatever else they're working on at the moment. You bake the cake before you frost it, we each decide what's cake and what's frosting.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

  9. #9
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    Nicole ,
    I'm not sure what your point is , are you saying no matter how much money you spend on being passable it's not going to be worth it because you won't pass anyway ?

    If that's the case I know this passable discussion rumbles on , I accept we aren't going to pass 100% because there's always the little pointers we can never totally lose. The nicest compliment I've had from GGs is I make a convincing woman, a TS friend told me a make a natural one, I'm more than happy with this response , it's more than I expected when I first stepped out the door.

    As for the speech aspect, it doesn't bother any of my social group even the TSs and doesn't appear to be a problem when I talk to members of the public. The point is they know what we are , they may not use our preferred label but we can educate them if they wish to sit and talk. I have been surprised how many do want to know more about us .

    I still don't feel the World is full of haters to our community , well not in the UK , the problem many have is that they haven't seen a CDer before , so they will look out of curiosity , of course you receive varied responses , GGs tend to give you a knowing smile , most men won't make eye contact .

    The UK situation is changing rapidly , the government is looking to bring equality to the TG community , Theresa May wants the UK to lead the way . Schools will be rated on their gender policies , the 2021 national census has many new questions aimed at TGs . The idea being to assess the budget needed to accommodate our different requirements . It will be interesting how many come out of the closet and declare their true nature , the census may pose some problems as it's a criminal act to make a false declaration , there is certainly going to be some soul searching and differences of opinions with wives and partners !
    Last edited by Teresa; 10-23-2017 at 10:12 AM.

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member MarieTS's Avatar
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    Mirya: Thanks for distilling this largely unanswerable question into both a rationale and emotional lesson. It is unfortunate all those biased friends and family members out there can't be CC'd with your insightful response. So many of them might learn something!
    Marie

  11. #11
    Silver Member AmandaM's Avatar
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    I just can't transition if I don't look like a woman. I can't be a man in a dress. I won't. I swear to God. If it comes to it, I'll back off. Maybe through therapy I could accept myself if I don't look like a woman, but I'm not there yet. Only had six therapy sessions with a gender therapist, so far. HRT may change things. Surgery will help too.

    Actually, I don't know how to answer this question. I'm kinda lost.

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    welcome to the kinda lost club

  13. #13
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaM View Post
    I just can't transition if I don't look like a woman. I can't be a man in a dress. I won't. I swear to God. If it comes to it, I'll back off. Maybe through therapy I could accept myself if I don't look like a woman, but I'm not there yet. Only had six therapy sessions with a gender therapist, so far. HRT may change things. Surgery will help too.

    Actually, I don't know how to answer this question. I'm kinda lost.
    I empathize with you. I was the same way. Fat. 6'2. And I was obsessed with this issue

    There is no shame at all being undecided, it took me almost 5 years to get thru all this.

    Ffs makes you passable Almost every time. Don't listen to the naysayers.
    It is amazing medical technology. Amazing. It saved my life and many others.
    I do have small hands and no balding. lol. That does help too

    And when you are full time. Passing Almost every time really means it doesn't matter if you don't pass or someone is curious. Full time means it doesn't matter if a clerk or someone at work looks at you funny. You are a woman. You are right. They are wrong.

    It's NOT about passing. As long as you become ok with your appearance. It will be ok
    I get that if you are not ok with it. You just feel you can't do it.
    Makes total sense to me

    Take care of your body. Take care of your hair. Just be ready and see what happens

    Hrt will soften you for sure.

    In the end. Your GD will decide You can't really change that other than to learn good coping skills and be ready for anything. And don't ever punish yourself for being undecided or wavering.
    I am real

  14. #14
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    AmandaM,
    Your profile doesn't give very much away but what do you think lets your look down the most or is it mostly in your head that you can't get a look to work for you ?

    I can't do the MIAD look either , it would be great to have my own hair to achieve how I wish to look so it means a wig full time. I did ask the question of dealing with them full time but to me it is the make or break to feeling comfortable when out and about . Learning the makeup skills of how little you need is getting better but again I can't go without the shaving shadow has to be concealed . My main wish would be to reduce the body hair , if I want to be out full time then I accept to feel right about myself I shave most of my body everyday in that respect I do want the male side of me gone .

  15. #15
    Silver Member AmandaM's Avatar
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    Kaitlyn, wow! That is really good. Yes, I've newly accepted that I am trans, not just a CDer. My therapist brought up the possibility of "transsexual". Scared the beejeezus out of me. I have a couple of threads on Susans about it. Anyway, I love your post!

    Teresa, I don't look too bad, just worry about how I would look if I actually transition. I have to get it out of my head that I'm not one of the girls I really envy, the real cute ones.

    Yeah, working on the self-acceptance angle. The therapist asked me my goal of therapy. I said two things, where am I on the gender spectrum, and learn to accept myself, trans or not.

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    Amanda, I'm right there with you. Today I emailed an inquiry to start therapy. I feel like i'm in a constant whirlwind of thoughts about being trans. I have the sinking feeling I'm likely TS, I'm scared of the implications of that, I'm wondering if maybe I've been engaging in confirmation bias to reinforce that idea, and maybe I'm just trans something with cross sex feelings, and i'm seeking amputation when a band aid and some ointment would suffice. And intellectually i really wish it would all just go away, but i know it won't. I need help in putting structure to my thinking and exploration.

    I do accept that if it comes to transition, with hrt and some degree of ffs, i would pass for a typical middle aged woman, and look ok, and that would be good enough for me.
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 10-27-2017 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Sorry, no specific OTC drugs can be mentioned

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    Amanda,
    Maybe forget about competing trying to be one of the girls and just be you ! That mindset moves you on, this is me dressed as I prefer to be seen , telling the World this is part of me , take or leave it but I'm not going to change . Think of transition as a label that others use to describe where you may or may not want to go , there are degrees of it before final surgery , up to that point you can stop or take a step back they are the choices you are free to make don't let anyone else make them for you .

    This is the way I'm going to work it but I have to get my separation and move to my new home before I can really see where I'm going , my DADT situation is clouding the issue too much .

  18. #18
    Country Gal.... Megan G's Avatar
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    Amanda,

    Don’t envy the cute ones, envy the ones that have thier crap together..admire the people who walked into the fire and came out the other side as a complete, happy and authentic person. It’s one hell of a journey that will test you in ways you can’t fully comprehend at this point... and you can’t until you have walked the walk....

    Therapy is a great place to start and work thru the BS....

    Only piece of advice i will give is to consider where you take advice from, especially on here. By all means listen the ones that have actually transitioned, we all have different view points but one common thing we have is actual experience. We did it and lived to talk about it... some will have opinions but no actual life experience to back it up.

    And remember, transition is not a label like suggested. It does not describe where you are or want to go.... it’s a process and a f’in hard one at that....

  19. #19
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Lots of good points..

    maybe look at this way
    dont transition...you dont "need" to...etc.etc..

    however, what can you do to get ready if you need to?
    maybe some things are just not doable at this time, or not doable until you transition..

    but put yourself in a position, the best one you can..
    HRT, electrolysis and having a social life where you can present as female are my top three..even if that social life is private and only with other Trans people.
    it could end up you just look and feel more feminine, that you present as needed and you can be good with it..

    if it doesnt, you are closer to being ready..
    I am real

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