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Thread: Cowardly to not challenge the screed?

  1. #26
    Gold Member Lana Mae's Avatar
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    May 2016
    North Carolina
    Ilene, I think you did the right thing! There are those who will never change their minds and are just closed minded! He basically does not have a need to know! Later you may have to face this but for now you did the right thing! I am going to have to face a similar situation with a life long friend and am not sure where he stands on all this! I am not sure how I am going to handle it! Best wishes Hugs Lana Mae
    Life is worth living!
    "Foxy lady! You look so good!!" Jimi Hendrix

  2. #27
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    May 2014
    Boston Area
    I'd say relax, forgive yourself, and save the memory of how you feel now, so you can use it for inspiration next time. You'll rise to the occasion when you're ready.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

  3. #28
    Gold Member alwayshave's Avatar
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    Dec 2011
    Washington, DC
    Ilene, I have a friend that I have had since we were three years old. He is my best friend, we are the opposites politically and socially, but we have that bond. I have decided not to have that difference of opinion with him, it's not worth the emotional effort.
    Please call me Jamie, I always_have crossdressed, I always will, "alwayshave".

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    I would have done the same thing as you, Course I agree with what your friend said despite being a crossdresser myself.

    I would say more but the admins are very strict here.

    But yeah picking your battles is a good idea

  5. #30
    Banned Spammer
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Between here and there but mostly here close to the donuts.
    If you know you can't change their minds why waste your time trying?

  6. #31
    Silver Member IleneD's Avatar
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    Sep 2016
    Thanks, Trace.
    You rock, girl. I think this is your second stab at responding to this thread.
    You're right. Can't change a mind on the spot like that.
    With regards to my friend (whom I still value),.... at least I know now.

    Thanks again. Love following your stuff. You are a solid one, dear. I trust you.
    There resides within me a Woman, and she is powerful.
    She has been my Grace and Bearing on the stormiest seas.
    I could no more deny Her than I would my own soul.

  7. #32
    Aspiring Member Joni T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    The OC
    Let it go or risk ending the friendship. His mind is made up, and closed. Any attempts to convince him otherwise will be an effort in futility. It boils down to this: do you want to retain the friendship?? If so, I suggest you just let it go and if the subject comes up again, just be a good set of ears and keep your trap shut. As the saying goes, "Never pass up an opportunity to remain quiet".

  8. #33
    How did that happen ? Samantha2015's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Ilene I see so much of the same thing on Facebook, some people I went to school with and were close friends with have really shocked me in the
    last few years with political statements and such. So many times I wanted to hit back with both barrels but just had to bite my tongue instead.
    I doubt it would do much good anyway they are so entrenched in their beliefs there is no chance of changing their minds.
    I think you were correct in waiting to pick your battles.

  9. #34
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    The state of flux, U.S.A.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    I understand your dilemma, but you know there will come a time when he will have to be proved wrong for the sake of the all of us in this situation
    Then the question remains, exactly how much do we wish to be martyrs for the cause? If you've got the energy, patience and strength of will to go through life dealing with the extra problems that being a front line soldier for the tg army, great, go to it. But the life I've lead had left me pretty much exhausted. I'm tired of arguing with thick headed people. Enough is enough. They don't WANT to be 'enlightened'. They LIKE being what they are.
    My life has been miserable enough. I don't wish to spend the rest of my life arguing with people about something that they're not likely to change their mind about. Prove them wrong? Hahahaha. People like that have their own facts, we see this in the news every day. They'll just call anything we say, as fake; they don't accept any facts that they don't like. They will only believe what they want to believe. Remember, you're attacking something that they believe in their hearts just as strong as their religion.
    It's not going to change them unless they want to change. The media has now showed that we are out there, in large numbers. Ignorant, set in their ways, obstinate people will often carry their beliefs to the grave. The truth is out there if they want to see it. But many don't. They would just prefer that we disappear, some would prefer us dead.
    The old saying is never discuss politics or religion. We can now add gender to that.
    Last edited by sometimes_miss; 10-22-2017 at 01:18 AM.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  10. #35
    Aspiring Member Dorit's Avatar
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    Sep 2014
    Another way of saying the same thing others have written: "You cannot lead someone to a place that they do not want to go." I have learned this through experience, so I now don't even try else I see some kind of openness or receptivity to learning about us.

  11. #36
    Diamond Member Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    On the road in an RV, homebase Texas
    First off, a heartfelt thank you for your service.
    Next, I would do (and have done) the same thing. Confrontation never wins points and it certainly doesn't preserve friendships. If we want to be ambassadors for trans rights then we have to help people change. True change can only happen if you remain friends and take it a step at a time.

    "If you are living the life you want to live you've successfully transitioned to being the person you want to be." - Eryn.

    "If you truly care about me you should damn well want for me what I want for myself" - Michael Westen (Burn Notice)

    -.-. --.-/-.-. --.-/-.-. -../ Persephone™ and Persephone™ are trademarks of Persephone herself, accept no substitutes. The terms "en femme" and "en drab" originated with Marcia Sampson/Staylace (OBM).

  12. #37
    Member Kellitgdet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Metro Detroit
    Thank you for your service. There will be a time and a place for you to be completely out and this wasn't it. Don't be so hard on yourself, you would have outed yourself before you are ready, to someone who would not appreciated the beautiful person you are.

  13. #38
    I'm a Big Girl, now!! JustJoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Ilene, my two-cents-worth is in agreement with most here. You did what you could with someone who clearly is not ready for a change in outlook. I'm terribly sorry that such a situation arose for you with an old friend. You are such a wonderful soul, and it clearly wounded you.

    Chin up, girl!! And try not to beat yourself up about any more!!
    In between the bright lights and the far, unlit unknown...

  14. #39
    Junior Member Bella.CD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    West Tennessee
    I thank you for your service.

    Your brotherhood was forged under DADT, your own feelings will dictate this brotherhood going forward-noone's advice will supercede your own thoughts and feelings, your brotherhood is different than most will ever experience.

  15. #40
    Aspiring Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    SE PA
    Thanks for your service. So many good responses to your experience. Learn from the experience, and yes pick your battles. Challenging your friends opinion on TGs is like trying to turn an aircraft carrier around in the Schuylkill River - impossible.

    Your friend is one of millions of people who only see gender in B&W and miss out on so many truly beautiful people who are TG or support the LGBTQ community. Hopefully by our actions and perseverance barriers will be broken down.

  16. #41
    Super Moderator GretchenJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Northeast US
    Agree with the majority of posts here that you did the right thing, before you beat yourself up too much , remember this

    1) You did not agree with him, but you calmly tried to offer the alternative argument.
    2) we all have friends that have polar opposite beliefs, be it political, religious, social - but unless they are total racists and/or bigots, we still are friends with them
    3) Having such a discussion with a baby boomer vs a millennial or a gen-x poses a ton of addition challenges, from years of upbringing and applied social norms.
    4) I am sure that opening yourself out to him would have destroyed your friendship

  17. #42
    Senior Member Laura912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    East coast
    When growing up (that condition is debatable) on a military base and being in the USN Medical Corp, I ran into that mindset many times. To be completely honest, I probably would have taken the same course as you, Ilene, in my younger days. Now, as a physician and being older, it is easy to start explaining things at a biological level without getting into the "you are wrong I am right" state. Has it made any difference? Do not know, but would like to think it made a slight crack in their foundation of ignorance. When the flak is too heavy and the mission does not have to be completed right now, time to pull up and chose when and how to come back.

  18. #43
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Greater Houston
    Is an officer, you learned early on that there are times when avoiding engagement is the proper course of action. I suspect that this was one of those times. You were facing someone who was very unlikely to be swayed by your arguments, your subtle overture on the matter demonstrating that pretty clearly. Pressing on would have produced nothing positive and may well have ruined something you both value. At this point, that's not a wise sacrifice, IMO. It may well be that down the road, you find yourself in a place (transition) where the risk of alienating ignorant friends is unavoidable. Save your courage for those encounters.

  19. #44
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Lowestoft UK. Beverley was here.
    There are times when you have to take a "tactical shift" with people, I have read other replies here and if you value a friendship it is not dishonest or shameful to skew the truth.

    You have not lied, just not revealed all the facts.

    The government does this all the time in it's practiced "need to know" philosophy.

    It may rankle our senses a little but we still vote for them.

    My vote goes to you insomuch as you keep your friend, practice the "Judas Escariot" principle and occasionally deny what you really feel.

    Talk to others about it as you have done here and you will find that a lot of us have done similar on occasions.

    Yes! We still have a life to live.

    Enjoy what we can of it. :-)
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  20. #45
    Stop that, it's silly.... DIANEF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Sometimes we have to walk the fine line of 'should we, shouldn't we'. I have often come close to telling people of my cross dressing but a voice in my head stops me just in time. Ilene, I think you made the right decision in not telling your friend.
    Here today, gone tomorrow....

  21. #46
    Senior Member GretchenM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Denver, Colorado
    I think you did the right thing. We need to educate people but, in my opinion, someone of that mind is not going to listen and will argue until the cows come home and longer. The sad truth is that some are just not reachable and in my experience people like that are almost always unreachable. We have enough problems to deal with without creating severe problems in old friendships. Maybe better to just let it go and not communicate with that person in more than a very superficial fashion. Perhaps someday he will find out the truth in some way he understands or perhaps he will shift his thinking a little. Another possibility is that he detected a bit of a change in your actions that were not there before and were unconsciously hinting that you might be One of Them. And he just had to speak his mind in a hurtful way. The fact is, we become accustomed to using certain body language and ways of expression that are a bit more feminine than one might expect and it does get them to thinking. It is a kind of inadvertent coming out by action rather than expression such as, "Guess what, I'm ..."

  22. #47
    Banned Read only
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Sorry I don't agree , we should not be put down and persecuted , we have a right to do as we do , I can be as stubborn as the next man maybe more so , but I am only just emerging into the World with CDing , the fight is worth the effort , I do it for other members on the forum to try and give something back and I'm determined to prove to the World we should be accepted in society .

    The situation is changing rapidly in the UK we have to be ready to show our true selves if the government has finally woken up to the fact we exist . The gender question is becoming part of everyday life , schools will now be given ratings taking into account their gender policy , passports are becoming easier to change . The 2021 national census will have far more questions requesting gender status .

    No one wishes me dead or wants me to conveniently disappear because I'm a Cder ,now is the time it will be discussed , make no mistake !

  23. #48
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Ft Lauderdale Fl
    Quote Originally Posted by IleneD View Post
    With regards to my friend (whom I still value),..
    I guess some of us have a different definition of "friend" than others do. Would he like you as much if he knew?

  24. #49
    happy to be her Sarah Doepner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Utah, north of West Jordan, south of North Salt Lake & west of South Salt Lake
    I have a brother-in-law who I butted heads with on Facebook over Caitlyn Jenner. My best arguments garnered accolades from everyone else who took part in the discussion, rolled off him like they were complete nonsense written in a different language. He is definitely NOT open to changing his views and probably retreated and strengthened the walls of his mental fortress as a result. I've come out or have become known as transgender to some in the family, and I truly hope he never finds out.

    You may drop a few comments and tidbits of information in the future and see how he responds. Some people only change their minds when someone close to them comes out. He may come around some day when a grandchild is revealed to be trans or he may decide to disown the child. Regardless, there is value in your shared history, and as long as you can stay focused on those things you share, there is life in that friendship.
    Being transgender isn't a lifestyle choice. How you deal with it is.

  25. #50
    leggings junkie ellbee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by IleneD View Post
    So much misunderstanding. And the hatred I see on the internet and social media.


    Beware of the hatred. It's real, I'm finding out. And not just this episode with a friend. As I go down the path of my inner soul, I find myself listening to old acquaintances, family and friends with an different ear; and I hear on the side their opinions and thoughts (on TG or LGBT matters) and hear things I never once paid much attention. Very interesting how finding a new life changes my perspective on how I view and hear things now.
    Wait... I thought that nobody notices, and nobody cares?

    I mean, don't we hear that all the time here?

    Guess what, folks? These very same people aren't just some keyboard-courage hermit types (whether anonymous or not) -- they, too, actually go about their business of their daily lives. At the mall, at the grocery store, at the restaurants, at the park, wherever. Right alongside of you; the same people are where you (en femme) are, too.

    Do these people notice sometimes? Yes, of course.

    Do they care? Yes, probably.

    Do they care enough to say/do something at the moment? Outwardly, probably not, for a variety of reasons... I mean, not everyone is always up for a big dramatic confrontation, which could, for example, potentially leave them with their wife/GF pissed at them for the next few hours/days/weeks -- or even end up in jail or in the hospital. But inside, their blood may very well be boiling. (And yes, believe it or not, sometimes they *do* actually show their disapproval in some sort of way.)

    These people of "hatred" do exist. Actual, living, breathing fellow humans, who we all share this earth with. They will always exist, as some swath of the population, varying over time in terms of percentages & intensity. Not everyone will like you, whatever the reason may be. That is life -- get used to it. You cannot force somebody to like you... Just as somebody cannot force *you* to like them.

    How would you like it if someone who whole-heartedly believes in only 2 separate genders (at any & all levels, and which is certainly their right) insists that you have to like it & like them, and to accept it & live your life accordingly? And if you don't agree with them? Then *you're* the "hater."

    Ah, yes... As someone else mentioned: Diversity. That buzz-word mantra.

    In the real world, diversity is not one's "approved" version of such. It simply doesn't work that way.

    Just as you expect others to accept you, you also need to accept *them* for who they are. And that is true diversity -- inclusion of *all* types of people, beliefs, cultures, religions, etc. Otherwise, one is just acting like a fascist hypocrite.

    Anyway, no, I'm not saying to give up CD'ing (as if that were entirely possible in the first place ), or to hide behind closed doors & curtains for the rest of your life. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't "fight" for your beliefs sometimes.

    But one needs to be cognizant of the fact that not everyone is like you, that not everyone will like you, and that you won't be able to change everyone's mind on something like this.

    Certainly not a defeatist attitude or anything. Just that it's a *realistic* one.

    As others have mentioned, gotta pick your battles -- or at least take them on tactfully & strategically, in hopes of preservation so you can fight another day. That, and not everyone has to know the whole entire story, 24/7/365.

    Besides, nothing wrong with having friends who might not agree with you 100% on everything.

    P.S. This post is not directed towards anyone here in particular. It's just a general rant.

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