Cowardly to not challenge the screed?

[IleneD]

Feel so awful, even cowardly.

I had a visit from an old shipmate (Navy friend) the other day. I'm not out to him, and I'm barely on a transition path; still learning the extent of my dysphoria. There's no doubt however that I am gender fluid SOMETHING, a crossdresser and quite possibly transgender. He is an old school kind of guy who served under my command and alongside me at times. On that level we are more than just friends.

Very old school, this gent. Near the end of our visit and lunch he went on a (political) tirade against "all snowflakes", and then went on about Transgenders; especially transgenders in the military. He was against their suitability for service; against taxpayer money supporting their medical needs, against VA benefits for TG care, etc. I briefly tried to talk him down, reminding him he probably had LGBT Sailor & Marines under his charge, and that the TG "phenomena" was real. [He insisted there were but 2 genders.]. I didn't really feel like I wanted to get into it with him, especially on this topic. And I didn't need to come out to him; not a soul so hostile to it. I didn't know he was of such a mind, but could have guessed.

Afterwards I felt like I chickened out and failed to call him out on it. He is a friend after all and not just an ex-shipmate.
As I proceed down my gender path I pray I have the courage to be Me, and stand up for all my brothers and sisters. It was a reminder that not everyone needs to know (until it gets to a transition point where it's impossible to cover.] I hate the thought of continued "living in shame" and afraid to expose myself, Yet, it seems wise to pick my fights (so to speak); especially with folks who once knew me as someone else in an entirely different life.

I just needed to get that off my chest.

[Sarah Doepner]

We need to carefully pick our battles. I've made statements to some who took them wrong and it may have damaged an otherwise solid friendship. In the relationship you describe there is a lot to overcome and it may be something that has to be done in very small steps, if at all. Part of the reason you didn't speak up may be because you are still attempting to find your own place in the world. Be patient for I'm convinced there will be many other opportunities to plant seeds of understanding or defend the kind of diversity we represent.

[Teresa]

Ilene,
I understand your dilemma, but you know there will come a time when he will have to be proved wrong for the sake of the all of us in this situation .
I feel you may have been happier writing this declaring you came out and stood up for your true feelings and made it clear to him that this community exists and does have equal rites .

I would be even tempted now to contact him by Email, letter or whatever and put the record straight , otherwise what happens next time you meet up ? Once you've done it you will find it easier. In some respects you are holding yourself back from accepting your true feelings and needs . We are similar ages and I know I can't replace this time again , if it doesn't happen now it never will , you were a courageous person in your work you can be the same with your personal life . Being TG is a wonderful challenge , I'm going to try my best to live it while I can .

[Karen RHT]

You're bang on when you said "it seems wise to pick my fights" Ilene. Now that it's off your chest, done and over with. Nothing to regret, just relax and be who you are.


Karen

[Meghan4now]

Ilene,

Don't be too hard on yourself. You tried at least a gentle approach. Sometimes you need to let it go. He was not listening, nor in the frame of mind to listen. You could have gotten animated about it, or come out, but that had a low likelihood of doing any good. As you say, you are not on solid ground yet, and this would have probably created a big stir between you. There will be another day, and I believe that the current social political divisions are adding a challenge to people that might be otherwise a little more accepting.

You will know when it is the right time.

[Alice K]

Ilene,
That was just a tactical retreat. Not to worry. Many ships have left the battle when out gunned. It is some times better to back away so that you can approach it in another direction at a later time. Heck George Washington retreated from New York and later won the war, Gen Smith retreated from the Chosin and the division was saved to fight another day,

There is so much misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of our situation. Some posts you may read on the web are pure hatred. There will be more opportunities to engage the enemy in the future when conditions for battle are more favorable. Live to fight another day.
Alice

[Fiona123]

Thanks for your service ! It's not easy being gender variant. I don't think you have anything two apologize for. If you are not ready to come out, it was probably not the right time to call out your Navy buddy.

[IleneD]

Alice,
Tactical retreat. LOL. I like that.
You are entirely correct, of course. So much misunderstanding. And the hatred I see on the internet and social media.
On the whole I'm a pretty 'straight' guy who believes and follows most virtue and standard wisdom. I'm also an Old School kind of guy in many ways, just as my friend.
It was just an awkward situation to have a trusted friend, someone who in another time I trusted my life to, go on about something that secretly touched me so personally; and I was unprepared and unequipped to properly deal with it at the moment. I had hoped for better out of him, for he's otherwise an intelligent man.
Yes, Alice K. Beware of the hatred. It's real, I'm finding out. And not just this episode with a friend. As I go down the path of my inner soul, I find myself listening to old acquaintances, family and friends with an different ear; and I hear on the side their opinions and thoughts (on TG or LGBT matters) and hear things I never once paid much attention. Very interesting how finding a new life changes my perspective on how I view and hear things now.

[CarlaWestin]

Ilene, I talk to my best friend of over fifty years practically every day. He hasn't worked in over twenty years and tells me all about how gays and trannies are tearing down the country and family structure. I've let him know that there's someone very close to me that is transgender. And that I think his comments are ignorant and neanderthal. But we've been close for a long, long time. In your case it is probably wise to just let it go.

[Alice Torn]

I can relate. Everyone i know has the only two genders set in stone. I agree there are only two sexes, or some few born with both. I am a biological male with male plumbing, but in my being, i feel just a much woman than man. I just have male whiskers to shave, and male plumbing, and i like some guy things, but feel released form prison in a dress, hose and heels and a wig. I hear it from ministers, and many people that all this TG stuff is evil. I di not sign up for this. I have always wrestled with it, for as long as i remember, too. I am pretty conservative, other than this thing i have been born with. I think i am pretty straight, too, but I realize now i am not very attracted to most women now. Only a few. I am more attracted to Alice Torn in the mirror all dolled up .

[SamanthaToday]

I thought you handled it well, like others said there was no point in revealing yourself at that moment.

You did say something and that's important. He will reflect on the talks you had like all people do and since he respects you, maybe you nudged the rock

a little closer.

[mykell]

ive told a story here a few times....worked on projects with different teams, one time with an unfamiliar team i had worked with one fellow i had worked with asked if i would be back to work the next week, i was not, he went on to exclaim how he hoped that so and so was not coming back to the team, told him i had not met so and so....he went on to try to describe a trans person and defaulted to you know that thing, i look him in the eye and said wow....we have a thing in our family....he stumbled with his next few words and said you know what i mean to which i said i sure do, and i had negative thoughts about it but educated myself and dealt with it....it was fun and that is how i will handle it again if that type of opportunity comes up again....now of coarse I am that person in my family so one is able to stick up for oneself without outing themselves....dont worry to much about not having a confrontation on it, you say they are a friend so i fear this conversation will come up again so maybe next time....

[Alice K]

Ilene, hatred grows from fear. Fear is created by lack of awareness and understanding. What will be interesting for you to observe is his attitudinal change over time as you don’t join in in the bashing and even offer subtle terms of acceptance. And as societal awareness grows he will become more accepting (one would hope).

I guess what I’m saying is don’t hold it against him. Help him grow without outing yourself.
Alice

[Rogina B]

Your old "shipmate" is on the wrong side of goodness. He won't accept acceptance and needs to be told by you that he is on the wrong side. If and when he finds out about you...you won't be his friend anymore,anyway. Best to try and get him to see that his viewpoint is wrong.

[Jodie_Lynn]

"Never fight a battle you don't have to win."

Ilene your ex shipmate is of a certain mindset and it is highly doubtful to the point of improbability that he will change his stance. You made the right call.

[Rayleen]

Ilene, I admire your courage . Being in the service, I seen a lot of hatered. back then it was not tolerated. I had good friends that were hiding it and we got along well. Thanks for sharing you story.

[Micki_Finn]

Even if you had confronted him, there’s no guarantee it would do any good. It may even have just entrenched his view more. Honestly I feel like our best hope is educating the next generation and waiting for the “old guard” to die out.

[Tracii G]

Maybe just you showing some compassion for TG people will jerk a knot in his backside and show him he just might be wrong in his previous assessments.
There have been plenty old friends I have run into that hate gays TGer people so I see no reason to fight with them about it.
Its not being scared to confront them on my part its actually being tactically smart to know my enemy. I can choose to fight the battle another day if it comes to that.

You did fine he is just one person and consider him on a need to know basis and I am sure you know what I mean.

[Dana44]

I think you did right it is very hard to fight a bigot as the ae hard to convince and it better to walk away from that and who knows maybe you plated a seed.

[Stephanie47]

My wife and I have a friend who is married to a man who has not been enlightened. At times his wife and my wife and I have basically told him off when it comes to putting down people who are not like him. From the description of the discourse it did not seem very civil on his part. That seems to be a common occurrence these days. Frankly, the highest office in the land is no longer a role model for civility. There is no reason to 'out' yourself and create a hostile situation. You also have to consider the possibility it does more good not to announce your sexual identity because he will basically throw it back in your face, "Well, of course you like THEM. You're one of THEM!" Outside of myself I do not know of any other cross dressers in my community. My wife has a cousin whose daughter is transitioning to a male. We have gay and lesbian friends and professional acquaintances. It seems, if you're not part of the targeted group, your opinion may carry greater weight.

We have an African-American son-in-law and consequently a mixed race grandson. I just let the bigots ramble on before I embarrass the crap out of them in front of everyone.

[Rachael Leigh]

Ilene, yes very tough to deal with folks like your friend and especially when one is so Ridgid in what they believe.
Like you I knew I no longer could hide this side of me and that's why I fully came out at work and now begin a journey to
transition.
I wish you well as you learn more about yourself
Rachael

[docrobbysherry]

I'm a firm believer in the, "Need to know", theory, Ilene. If u aren't out and living as a female I recommend that policy.

I'm 74 and have a number of very old friends. Ones I made eons before I began dressing in my 50's. Only one is very open minded and accepting. Altho he's not my closest friend, he's the only one that knows I dress!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Ilene , That was the right call,

See line #4 in my signature.>Orchid......

[suzanne]

Go easy on yourself. From your own words, you tried to make him understand and we're unsuccessful. That's not the same as chickening out. Good on you for trying, and keep on fighting the good fight.

Paradigm shifts occur, not when the old guard sees the light, but when they die out and are replaced. Erwin Schrodinger

[Kandi Robbins]

Ilene,

These is no use beating yourself up about that. I know I certainly would have done the same. This is all so difficult for many to understand and here we are going through it ourselves and I can tell you, I certainly don't understand it myself. I have not told so many people in my life, in fact almost none (except my wife).

Being military, you know life is full of battles, this is one you had no upside in undertaking. The time will come when you are ready to take that on, now is just not the time. We are evolving as a society on the gender spectrum and in time, this won't be as big of an issue. We're just not there yet.

You'll get there.