Military Transgender or Crossdressing

[JMO2]

I was in the US Army from 1981-1987 and during that time I did admit to cross dressing. They send me on my way so-to-speak. Because I had not done anything "wrong" by Army standards and did not "dress while in the military" they could not give me a dishonorable discharge. They tried. I held my ground saying there is nothing wrong with me and that what is wrong is the military. I was in Germany and the private that was in the same room actually recorded me while I was trying to talk candidly to him and he turned it over to my commanding officer. I was told I was gay and could be kicked out. I told them I was not that I liked to cross dress and then the proceedings began trying to find a way to send me packing without any embarrassment to the military. I was locked up in a mental ward for a week and told that there was something seriously wrong with me. They told me that back in the 60s they gave patients shock treatments to get rid of those "feelings".
I still held my ground and told them I was a cross dresser and that nothing was wrong with me. Finally after a 6 month battle with the military they gave me an "Honorable Discharge" complete with a physical to have on record to show that I was as "Physically fit" as when I joined the Army. The agreement was that I ask for nothing from the military and that I "leave quietly".
How things have changed. Now you can dress openly and claim you are transgendered and if you do it long enough can actually in some cases get the military to pay for "the operation".
Years later and now in my late 50s I try to find ways to tell my other half - which she said at one point "They are only clothes" when I talked to her while we were dating and well knew about my cross dressing NOW gets upset when I put any article of female clothing on.
I sometime feel like I am fighting the same battle I did in the military with my SO and believe me when I tell you, my live is no fun!
I think for the most part I have given up and just try to live with what I have been given because of our Autistic son we adopted 11 years ago.

[Reptile 1]

Thank you for serving our Great Country.....I also had the privilege of serving '74-'99....I also live in TX.

[Leslie Langford]

I dunno...Cpl. Klinger of *MASH* fame seemed to be able to get away with it...

[Stephanie43]

Interesting thread. As a Marine overseas, I would underdress I suppose by painting my toe nails. I would take the polish off when my friends and would go snorkeling in the Okinawan waters.

Once back state side, I was attached to an infantry unit and spent a lot of time in the field. Most, if not all of my unit wore pantyhose underneath our fatigues to stay warm, so YAY for me. Sometimes at night while in my sleeping bag (fully clothed including pantyhose for warmth), I would “tuck” to feel a little femme while in the field.

Other than shaving my body, that was pretty much the extent of my military femme.

[Jamsey]

I was in the army 1967-1970. 50 years ago today I was in Viet Nam. I would never consider it when I was in the service, though a couple of times when I was on leave or weekend passes, I did play around with it a little, while stationed outside of Seattle. After I came back from Viet Nam I became a company clerk, since in my mos only outdated equipment was used in Viet Nam, and there was no need or even positions available state side. This one guy would come into my office, stating he needed to get out of the army right away and how could he do it, as if I had a secret way to do so. Eventually I tired of him asking so I showed him the regulations on being discharged by declaring to be a homosexual. I told him he could get out real fast that way, and he didn't even have to be a homosexual, all he had to do was report for duty wearing a dress or skirt and blouse. He didn't bug me anymore and ended up going to Viet Nam within a few months.
A couple of weeks ago I was talking to my gender counselor and we were talking about different options. When I go see her I almost always dress. We were discussing the VA and I mentioned recently I was talking about making appointments for mental health counseling through the VA. About 3 years ago I finally registered at the VA hospital here in Madison. I'm on Social Security/Medicaid now since I recently retired and I'm no longer covered under my insurance plans for transgender counseling. The VA does have some coverage available. Anyway I said that there was no way I would go dressed to the VA Hospital. I just don't think it would be received very well, especially with the older vets, or even some of the younger ones. Maybe that will be a topic of another thread if it hasn't been covered already.

[vicky_cd99_2]

Not to sure I would if it was allowed. Too much testosterone in my units. Plus I would not want to alienate someone who I would need to cover my 6 when the time came. It is all about trust in small units. I did under dress some off duty, but never in uniform. I grew facial hair as part of my deterrence to dressing during those years. Plus being before the net I thought I was alone and a freak. My guilt in myself was motivation to be a very high speed low drag troop. I am so glad I have finally come to terms with who I really am. The stress is almost all gone.

[Tracii G]

I wonder how many 20 round mags will fit in a nice Coach bag?
Does Coach make a fashionable chest rig or ruck sack?

[Leslie Mary S]

I started my CDing after my military service and DoD civil service career. Because of the nature of my job, even the hint of CDing / gay would have cost me my very high-level clearance. With out my clearance, I could not have done my job in secure communication maintenance.

Even my first 3 years as a Flight Surgeon Assistant (Later Paramedic) CDing would have cost me my career.

All through my career it was a short length military hair cut/clean shaven for gas masks. Even those who had Psodo-falicalitice had trouble with gas masks.

[IleneD]

JMO2,

I read your post several days ago. I've had time to think about it.
As a career military officer, what I read in your post really burns me up. This should not happen and it should not have happened in the time you served.
You served in pre-DADT, and I recall that those times were harrowing bad for gay Sailors and Marines. Back then no-one even used the label LGBT. Everything "queer" was gay back then, and the rules against homosexuals serving were hard. It didn't matter if you were a heterosexual CD. All such behavior was "gay".

And the rules, policy and UCMJ on this subject were enforced arbitrarily, unfairly and unevenly. Your own post describes it, except in your case the rules and law ended up protecting your Honorable Discharge status despite the fact your command wanted to stick it to you. That part of military law and culture always bothered me. HOW your personal situation may be handled in those days really depended on the mind and heart of your skipper and the leadership. Hope and pray you had a commanding officer who was intelligent, erudite, worldly and decent.

While I hid my own proclivities during my service, I was wise and observant enough to assist and protect my Sailors who I knew (or suspected ) to be gay. In my first squadron I was a maintenance division officer and had parachute rigger (PR) who everyone suspected was lesbian, but with no public confirmation. Debbie the PR had a known girlfriend in another squadron, and it was a rocky relationship at times. One day Debbie came into my office distraught about her mate (Robin) who was deployed and into mischief that affected their personal relationship. She was blurting out very personal stuff, and heading towards making "coming out" statements. At one point I must have had quite an amazed look on my face, because she stopped and began the first words of a sentence that began, "Sir, You DO know that Robin and I are.......". I stopped her right there. Held up my hand. I knew what she was going to say. "Petty Officer ____, if you tell me what I think you're about to tell me, it will be a violation of the UCMJ. I will be obligated as an Officer to act upon it. Do you understand me?. PLEASE, do not tell me what I think you want to tell me." We ended our counseling session. Even had a hug. But it was a very important and formative military experience for me. I had a couple more such counseling sessions with my Sailors in years to come.

Your case could have and SHOULD have been handled with much more wisdom. That's why it burns my ass to read these kind of tales.
Thanks for serving. Bless you.

[CynthiaD]

I didn't crossdress at all when I was in the army. I just wanted to keep my head down, do my time and get out. If it had been permissible I might have, but I just don't know.

[Karyn Marie]

I was Navy from 1973 to 1981. I did not cross-dress while in, however had cross-dressedwearing my mothers clothing, like many of us. I was also on a submarine and I could not imagine what kind of issues or troubles I might have had if caught wearing panties or pantyhose. That was a very good likely hood. BTW, I was also on a rotation of three months in and three months out on a SSBN. I was also on an LSD (Landing Ship Dock) for a few months. I was a corpsman, so our berthing was in Sickbay. Scary to think what might have happened had I been caught wearing panties on the LSD too. Yea, shipboard life is not conducive to crossdressing......

[Kayliedaskope]

Ladies, while I have never served (my father was USN), please know that I fully respect those of you that have.

Thank you for your service.

[Georgette_USA]

I am going to reply to this thread again, see my earlier also.

I was US Navy from 69-74. Served on a SSBN submarine, had a Top Secret+ clearance, worked as a Fire Control Tech, was responsible for launching our missiles if needed to.
I was found out to be a CD when living off base and dressing on my own and did public driving in 72-73 period.

After evaluations by Base Psychiatrists and Security people. They found I was neither a security risk nor homosexual, and told to get back on my regular duties. Was NOT given a dis-honorable discharge. Don't know if my CO or XO were aware of why I had to visit the security and psychiatrists.

After I left service in 1974 and worked as a contractor on US DoD installations. I transitioned MtF as a contractor still working on the same installations in 1977.
Kept my secret or top secret clearances until I retired in 2011. Last 13 years was as a civilian in the DoA.

My experiences may not have been typical, as I have never met another with any similar tales.

[Bree Wagner]

TG's serving openly would be discriminated against, not promoted, be deemed 'unsuitable' for all sorts of bureaucratic reasons, etc.

I guess that makes this incredibly ironic then.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0a233482e0b05

[Laura912]

It has been a privilege to watch many of you during my past years here, and Bree has been one of those who has persevered and is doing things for this community. Congratulations on your promotion and your efforts. My two years in the USN were nothing compared to the careers several of you have had. Thank you.

[Stephanie Julianna]

When I was at Fort Knox at Tank School in 1971 I could have been Court Marshalled and given a Dishonorable Discharge if I even was found dressing in private. Never drove a M60A1 with heels but I think it would have hurt my driving. No way would I wear them trying to jam a 105MM shell in the breach either.

[Rollermiss]

Yes, I would underdress while in uniform until I transferred Sqdrns and was going to the field for 4 days. Luckily being a supervisor I had my own room most of the time.

Kelsey

[IleneD]

I guess that makes this incredibly ironic then.

Thanks Bree, and a reminder that there are some who are TRYING. I'm thankful for all who are in the vanguard to change minds about transgenderism. It's a good sign that change, however slow and slight, is happening.
BTW.... the article notes that the member taking the Oath is a FtM transgender. I don't know the history or research on it but I imagine that service members generally have an easier time with a female transitioning to male in a predominantly 'macho' profession. It may not be so accommodating yet for MtF members. Time will tell.

I want to give you another response on your thread about "what you've been doing...". Need to think about it. I just want to say I am a big fan after reading your stuff and watching your work. Thanks, Bree.

[Bree Wagner]

BTW.... the article notes that the member taking the Oath is a FtM transgender. I don't know the history or research on it but I imagine that service members generally have an easier time with a female transitioning to male in a predominantly 'macho' profession. It may not be so accommodating yet for MtF members. Time will tell.

I want to give you another response on your thread about "what you've been doing...". Need to think about it. I just want to say I am a big fan after reading your stuff and watching your work. Thanks, Bree.

That article (and the embedded video) was about me! If you saw it was about Bryan (Bree) Fram. While I still work under male standards, since I'm gender fluid and don't have current plans to transition, I am very open about being trans. I didn't see anywhere that I said I was FtM, but yes, they do generally have a slightly easier time in the military, particularly for the junior folks.

I'm sorry that if you replied on my other thread I never got the chance to see it. The thread was deleted because I had too many links. Best to find me on Facebook or Flickr for everything that I'm up to!

[Robin-in-TX]

I was Army enlisted from 81-95, got out as an E-7. I came back in as a JAG in 07 and retired November 1. During my first term of service, I dressed at home when I could. You would be thrown out if you were caught. My ex-wife did not know, but I know now that she would not have cared at all. We did not separate because of it, she never knew.

During my second time in, I was and am married to someone else. I under dressed the entire time, but changed at work so that she never knew. I really didn't worry about it at work, I was an officer and knew how to get by. Eventually, we ran into difficulties and I decided to come out to an extent. As part of us staying together, I told her that I underdressed and was not going to hide it any longer. That was in 2013 and I have ever since, in and out of uniform. With the exception of Afghanistan, I did not bring any feminine wear to Afghanistan. It would have been impossible.

Would I have worn more? Well, I would have underdressed the first time I was in. I'm way to shy to have fully dressed during that time and even now.

I am happy that the world has turned and that the military is embracing those whose path is different but who are willing to step forward and serve our nation. It always should have.