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Thread: Anger :(

  1. #76
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    Very well said Vanessa, thanks.

  2. #77
    Banned Read only terza's Avatar
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    i've yet to see a post where fulltime, or even near fulltime, crossdressers on dating and finding female mates --the same (quality) one would chat up in male attire... in an everyday settings, and not some LGBTQ safe zone.
    i've only have read on dubious, or probable hazardous, encounters.

    i'm older, just shy of 50, still in the highs of my career. being divorced, i am not looking for celibacy.
    overwhelmingly is the case that retirement and aged ambiguity/androgyny is the freedom of the crossdresser. i see that as a bit anti-climatic... and a long way to go.

    though i am glad for the legal coverage of LGBTQ, i'm not transgender --which is likely why they are a bit resentful, along w/ their own hierarchy of "worthiness"

  3. #78
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan54 View Post
    I find myself increasingly troubled by this 'discussion' which is more of an attempt to overrule me than a discussion.
    This discussion is actually not about you but about the original poster. Your repeated assertion that people should not use the accepted terminology of this site is your attempt to impose your point of view in a discussion about someone else rather than, as you claim, an attempt to overrule you.
    Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.

    This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any

    Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist

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  4. #79
    Member Rebecca W.'s Avatar
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    Dear Nicole,

    The great thing about this forum is that everyone has their own opinion on each thread that is posted. Individual voices are a great way to sort through your own issues, and to be able to find the words that comfort you. Like anything in this world, you can embrace it or ignore what was said. I read every comment on here and I can feel the personal emotion that each written word has from each reply.


    Best wishes for a wonderful day.

    Rebecca

  5. #80
    Platinum Blonde member Ressie's Avatar
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    I've said it before. The word transgender has been confusing. Many medical professionals don't even know the different definitions. Like many words in the dictionary, transgender has more than one meaning. Many people think it's tantamount to the word transexual because that's how it's used so often. It also has to do with gender expression or gender identity. Next, it's an umbrella term for anyone from transvestites to transexuals which adds to the confusion.

    The first time someone on this site told me I was transgender I didn't know what to think. That was a few years ago so I've had time to ponder that notion. I enjoy seeing myself dressed in women's cloths which is another gender expression or identity. 5 years ago was the first time I've dressed in public for others to see that expression.

    Also transgender is an adjective (a descriptive word) not a noun (person, place or thing). So there's no reason to get one's CD panties in a bunch over the use of the word. As a CD you are expressing something about the opposite sex which is a transgender act or behavior. It's not necessarily who you are. Why can't we just relax and have fun?
    "You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder

  6. #81
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    I know what you mean Susan, as a newish member on these forum I have noticed there seem to be some "unwritten rules" about how you are supposed to act. I have made a couple posts coming from the "man's" perspective of CDing, but get shutdown from the more "senior" members (who to me, seem like the full TS type. Full time Dressers, people wanting to transition etc) of this forum because I am apparently being manipulative, being called a lier etc. They always sticking up for the GG SOs feelings instead of sticking up for your fellow CDers.

    I know you are trying to do the "right thing", but remember for many of us, especially newer members, this is a learning experience and our own personal adventure and we want to be able to discuss these things without judgement. Remember, we are all MEN underneath these clothes. If you believe you are not a man, but a woman, are these really the right forums to be posting on?
    Last edited by Pat; 11-05-2017 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Please don't quote entire posts. If you have a point to respond to, quote that. If you're just in agreement don't quote.

  7. #82
    Platinum Blonde member Ressie's Avatar
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    Kas, I've looked at some of your other posts and I've gotta say you have a lot to learn. Post 10 in this thread for example shows that you don't really know what a transexual is. And your definition of transvestite isn't complete either. I believe the senior members that are shutting you down are just much more informed about TG issues than you and other noobs to this forum are. There are rules but they the are written under FAQs and rules at the top of the page.

    You're right that this is a learning experience but we aren't all men under these clothes. There are GGs, and transmen members here for one thing. And some (most) MtF transexuals find it offensive to be called men. I'm not shutting you down, just letting you know that you might want to learn by observing a little more.
    "You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder

  8. #83
    Member BettyMorgan's Avatar
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    xNicoleX,
    Only you can self-identify. You , and only you, can determine where you fit. And if you are like me, you may not have figured out where yet.
    I do know one thing for sure, I am not a cisgender male. And at this point, that's enough.
    They/Them
    I love dressing as a woman.

  9. #84
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    I know what you mean Susan, as a newish member on these forum I have noticed there seem to be some "unwritten rules" about how you are supposed to act.
    Actually, we also have written rules and you'd better start paying attention to those as well. I recommend reviewing the section titled "Respect and Tolerance of Other Forum Members" soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    Remember, we are all MEN underneath these clothes.
    You may be. You will certainly find others on this forum who are as well. But not all are. You will not gain respect if you don't give it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    If you believe you are not a man, but a woman, are these really the right forums to be posting on?
    Every person here has a right to post (even you.) If you want to start a thread for people ONLY like yourself, you can start one and specify that you only want folks who feel they are cis-male crossdressers (or whatever you consider yourself to be) to respond. It's that simple. Moderators will enforce reply restrictions on any thread that calls for them in the Original Post.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    Every person here has a right to post (even you.) If you want to start a thread for people ONLY like yourself, you can start one and specify that you only want folks who feel they are cis-male crossdressers (or whatever you consider yourself to be) to respond. It's that simple. Moderators will enforce reply restrictions on any thread that calls for them in the Original Post.
    That's fine I understand. I just had the assumption that this forum was dedicated for CDers and CD related things (because of the website name crossdressers.com), not a general transsexual forum. My bad. Maybe I'll just stick to the fashion section. ��
    Last edited by Kas; 11-06-2017 at 01:12 AM.

  11. #86
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    As has been stated in several posts in this thread the site is open to everyone who has an interest in this other side of life, including family, friends and admirers. As I stated in this thread or another one started by Susan, the majority of members here are in fact self identified crossdressers, which is a broad spectrum all by itself. For ease of communication and using accepted definitions, accepted for this side of life, "Transgender" is used as the umbrella term, whether some like it or not, and many do not like it. Umbrella includes all of us, period. This is also not a general transsexual forum. They, Transsexuals - identity different from their birth assigned sex) are actually a smaller segment here with an active posting population that continues to grow and shrink over time. We also recently added the Non-Binary section, which is a growing segment under the umbrella.

    I have read just about every thread on this forum over the last few years. In my opinion, there is very little bashing of anyone here going on. When true bashing is found the Mods and Admins have dealt with it quickly. When if comes to differences of opinions, that is very alive and well here. Many threads get sidetracked by an off topic comment and seem to deteriorate very quickly after that. One of the popular contentious type treads deals with labels, from what they mean, whether they are good or bad, necessary or overly controlling, and finally who is included under the different labels and their definitions. Because one disagrees with another does not mean that they are bashing or whatever that person. Yes, some may do that but they are in the very small minority.

    Regarding labels as I have seen it working here: Each person can self identify and use or ignore applicable labels as they apply or not to them. However, based on that umbrella terminology concept, you may identify yourself one way, and those following the current definition may say, "Fine, you call yourself "X", and I based on the site's definitions, will consider you "Y". If someone is fishing they are a fisherman/person in that moment, whether they are adamant that they are only a golfer. I respect what you call yourself as your choice, but I will continue to use definitions accepted here when discussing topics around a label/definition, not necessarily yours. If everyone has their own definition, then no one could communicate on certain topics here, and that would be a shame. You are new here, but this site covers all the relevant and not so relevant topics and more,and many times we repeat the same conversations as new members join the site.

    I hope you understand that the majority here in this thread talking about the site's accepted definitions, really want you and others to stay to stay, participate and enjoy your time here. We can always learn something new, and new blood keeps bringing new topics or different twists on old topics that many times result in very interesting, informative and great learning situations that permit many of us to grow and sometimes even question our own earlier cast in concrete opinions.

    My only recommendation is to give this site a chance over time to see if it is a good fit for you. If not, then maybe it will be time to continue your search for a better site that better meets your needs.

  12. #87
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    Remember, we are all MEN underneath these clothes. If you believe you are not a man, but a woman, are these really the right forums to be posting on?
    Kas, look again at the title of this site:
    The #1 community for crossdressers, their family and friends
    Every member has a right to be here and to post in the open forums so long as they respect the rules. That does not make it
    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    a general transsexual forum.
    Significant Others also have every right to be here (reread my first sentence) and they are not "all MEN".

    I sincerely hope that your words are not betraying transphobia.
    Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.

    This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any

    Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist

    Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity

  13. #88
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    When I said we are all men, I was referring to us crossdressers... You're taking what I am saying way too seriously. OBVIOUSLY GGs are not men and I have no issue with family and friends of CDers on here so stop getting so hung up over that one sentence... The problem is that the members on this site seem to be from 2 different camps. One camp are guys that like being a guy, but dress up in clothes to feel nice/sexy/pretty/cute occasionally. Then there are the people who CDing is their full-time life. The issue is that the views from both of these camps are very different. For example, a 60 yo, gay, never-had-a-partner-before, retired, full-time CDer is not going to be able to relate to somebody like me for example, a 28 yo, straight, work full-time, engaged, part-time dresser. I am having a very hard time on this forum trying to express my opinions without being told I am wrong.

    Transphobic? Wow everyone's got it in for me today... I consider myself transgender, so the answer is NO!
    Last edited by Kas; 11-06-2017 at 06:30 AM.

  14. #89
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    The problem is that the members on this site seem to be from 2 different camps. One camp are guys that like being a guy, but dress up in clothes to feel nice/sexy/pretty/cute occasionally. Then there are the people who CDing is their full-time life. The issue is that the views from both of these camps are very different.
    the STRENGTH of this site is that it brings people from disparate backgrounds, each with their own understanding, into one place where they can interact discover their similarities and differences and learn from each other. You may be surprised, when you get a chance to see through other's eyes, what you discover about yourself. This place was never meant to be an echo chamber where you hear only your own opinion comfortably reinforced over and over.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

  15. #90
    Senior Member Jean 103's Avatar
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    So just because I'm 61 you don't think I can remember that happened a few years ago. Or when I was your age on top of the world. Then this isn't about me. I'll take a guess that what you are experiencing has more to do with personalities, and everyone is different. I'm not trying to insult anyone here but some people are uppity, middle of the road, down to earth, whatever. That's just life.

    Here is an example. There is a local transgender support group that meets every week like thirdy minutes from me. I go sometimes. So I was told this new gay bar opened up in that town by a friend, he didn't know the name his brother in law told him . I have been trying to get the name from my friend. I thought I would ask at the meeting. Now they meet at the LGBT center. I was told "we don't go to bars" WTH I thought. I was asking for a friend that is gay. He has been down lately . I don't go to gay bars. I told him I would go and be his wingman. Some people are very quick to judge, but then they are go if to judge you anyway.

    I find its better just to ignore them. I my case I see no reason to go to anymore of those meetings. Be sides when I need support I turn to my friends in the real world.

  16. #91
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    Hi Jean,

    I meant no offence by the age. I picked 60 randomly as an example.

    I am yet to meet another CDer in the real world. Too bad you're all the way over the other side of the world or I'd come out with you!

    I think you're right. I guess I just need to take a back-seat approach for a while.

  17. #92
    Reality Check
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtea View Post
    I think i saw the documentary ....................
    Everyone should realize that a TV "documentary" is just one person's opinion on a subject. The difference between any one of us and that person is, that person has the means to produce and air his/her opinions to the public while the rest of us do not.

    I suspect many of us have seen "documentaries" of men who transitioned and then changed their minds and de-transitioned. Is that the way it should be or do some of us have other views?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly View Post
    ................ The only thing you have to call yourself is transgender, because that is what we... all of us, are."[/I]
    And that is incorrect. A person who wears women's clothing from time to time is not necessarily transgender and that's the point many of us are trying to make. When you call us names, you are insulting us. Is that your intention?
    Krisi

  18. #93
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    I believe Krisi caught you, Aunt Kelly. When we sit and talk in the abstract about others or "the community" we can agree among ourselves that "we're all transgender." But when a person speaks of themselves and says "I am not transgender" you have to respect that. It's very similar to disrespecting someone's pronouns to tell a person who believes they are not transgender that they are. We can lead them to water, etc.

    Your view (and mine too) is that it's hard to understand how a person can own hundreds of dollars worth of pads, forms, wigs, etc and routinely put on makeup and women's clothes and still somehow think they're not transgender. But we can't tell them how they feel.
    Last edited by Pat; 11-06-2017 at 09:59 AM.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

  19. #94
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    This post grew longer and more convoluted than originally intended but I think that it covers my feelings of much that has run tbrough this thread. Please bear with me.

    Strange as it may seem, we have a similar thing with labels and naming in the UK. The UK is made up from four nations, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Together they form, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. You have to realise at this point that Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, as it is part of the island of Ireland.

    (The Irish situatuon gets really complicated so the rest of this post relates to GB, or England, Scorland and Wales).

    Now, basically, if you are a citizen of England, Scotland or Wales then you will be a UK national. You would also be a Brit. You would also be English, Scottish or Welsh. Now, for many people being of the country of their birth is more important to them, and so they will self identify as being of there, English, Scottish or Welsh, and most definitely not British. These people may not like to be thought of as being British, they are specifically English, Scottish or Welsh. A Scot may rail againt being a Brit, even though to travel out from the country, they will need a UK passport. England, Scotland and Wales are also part of the island of Britain, which is what ultimately makes us all British. This situation gets worse as, around the World, there are many non-UK people who do not know about the nuances of British identity and lump all British people into being English, which is bad for Welsh and Scottish people, whether or not, they then go on to identify themselves as Brits.

    I suppose what all this goes to show is that there are labels and labels and labels. And that the label that we give ourselves is valid and should be respected, but that may be different from the label that the outside world would use and understand. And that too has to be understood and respected. It just goes to show that naming things, even naming ourselves, is a minefield.

  20. #95
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    Charlotte, what a great example of what is happening here. I especially like this paragraph, and I hope that Kas, Sue, Krisi and others do get it.

    "I suppose what all this goes to show is that there are labels and labels and labels. And that the label that we give ourselves is valid and should be respected, but that may be different from the label that the outside world would use and understand. And that too has to be understood and respected. It just goes to show that naming things, even naming ourselves, is a minefield."

  21. #96
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    I only had time to read half the responses, but it is all about the label and the semantics and emotional baggage different people tie to it. We, as well as the various societies we each live in, base the meaning of a word not on a dictionary or a well researched evaluation, but on what others have said or heard. The word transgender is often used in the media when referring to the more visible elements of TG spectrum, the transsexuals (yes - another label which may mean different things to you). So the public thinks they are the same. Those of us who know better, may use the label crossdresser to separate us from the other part of the spectrum that others know - the transsexuals. So while we may consider ourselves trans (transgender) and be accurate to well informed people, the meaning to the general public is different and that is your source of anger-but it is nothing you did and until a visible educator of CDing vs TS comes forth to explain to the public, we remain misunderstood.
    Hugs, Ellen

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    .... it's hard to understand how a person can own hundreds of dollars worth of pads, forms, wigs, etc and routinely put on makeup and women's clothes and still somehow think they're not transgender..........
    So now we're going to decide who is transgender and who is not based on the cost of their feminine "stuff"? Where is the line? One hundred dollars? Five hundred dollars? A thousand or more dollars? And spent over what period of time? All at once or spread out.

    I don't think that's going to work because some of us have more disposable income than others. Perhaps we should know the percentage of a person's income that's spent on feminine stuff.

    Really, the problem here is that we judge people based on our own personal experiences and our own environment. Your signature line goes like this:

    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
    This makes you very different from me so it's not surprising that you would look at the subject of crossdressing and crossdressers differently than I or some other people would. It would be nice if we could "all get along" but until we allow each other to be ourselves, that's not going to happen. And if some long term members "bully" the newer members, there will soon be nothing but the bullies left on this forum. It would be easy for a new member to post a few questions, get shut down by a bunch of negative replies and decide this is not the place for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllieSF View Post
    Charlotte, what a great example of what is happening here. I especially like this paragraph, and I hope that Kas, Sue, Krisi and others do get it.

    "I suppose what all this goes to show is that there are labels and labels and labels. And that the label that we give ourselves is valid and should be respected, but that may be different from the label that the outside world would use and understand. And that too has to be understood and respected. It just goes to show that naming things, even naming ourselves, is a minefield."
    What you are missing is that this forum is not the "outside world". Far from it. The outside world puts us all in one category and puts a very negative label on all of us. In the outside world, men wear men's clothing and women wear women's clothing. In the outside world, if you have a penis, you are a male. If you have a vagina, you are a female. In the outside world, there is no "in between" and you can't change from one to the other.

    That's the outside world.
    Krisi

  23. #98
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    So now we're going to decide who is transgender and who is not based on the cost of their feminine "stuff"?
    Really? Is that what you got out of my post? Nothing about how we (the bullies, apparently) have to accept others (like you) at their word?
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

  24. #99
    Platinum Blonde member Ressie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    it's hard to understand how a person can own hundreds of dollars worth of pads, forms, wigs, etc and routinely put on makeup and women's clothes and still somehow think they're not transgender. But we can't tell them how they feel.
    Owning, wearing and using that stuff is a kind of temporary transformation. To me, the act of emulating a female is a transgender act. But the definition of the word "transgender" is too ambiguous for many of us to use pertaining to our selves. It seems it's mistakenly very attached to the word transexual for many crossdressers to want to be associated with it.

    Those that don't crossdress with female emulation in mind (wearing only a few garments) might still identify as the opposite sex or might not.

    I guess I'm just repeating what I've already posted. I don't see why their has to be any anger over this. Confusing would be a better thesis IMO.
    "You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder

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    So after 98 amount of posts and 2900+ of views discussing,

    what we can say and cant say.

    what we are and are not.

    what we want to be, but cant be.

    We are gay , we are not gay.

    Some are gay, some arent.

    Some dress all the time, some dont.

    Some want to dress all the time but cant.

    Some would dress more if they were younger or prettier.

    Other than that,

    how's everyone doing.

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