Anger :(

[xNicolex]

So I haven't posted in a while. I've been really busy, but I feel I need to address this. The word transgender, what does it mean to you? Do you identify with it? LGBT or LGBTQ? intersex, genderfluid, non-binary? Where do I fit in. Funny... I've asked myself that question my whole life, and even with all the labels we have today I still can't find the right fit. Why? LGBT is supposed to encompass us ''crossdressers'' right? Wrong! and this is why I'm angry. I've spent countless hours watching T.V documentaries and social experiments about transgender people. These shows share a common problem, they state that if your not transgender then your ''JUST A CROSSDRESSER'' I find this very upsetting ''Oh HE'S just a crossdresser HE hasn't had to spend years coming to terms with who HE really is, so no big deal or anything'' I am a crossdresser but I see myself just as much of a woman as any. I only spent 10 years of my life hiding from myself so yeah no biggy! This alienates us, I feel I have no place I try to just be myself and forget about the labels. But that's not enough because people don't forget as easy. Now you could argue that ''Oh but you don't identify as a female so your not trans'' well that's not good enough, who's to say who qualifies for what title, or if anyone even wants a title or label? because I don't. I just want people to respect me as I am. The information available for the trans community today is great, but the spectrum's of gender that they describe can be convoluted. I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just venting my frustration. I spent so long alone dealing with my trans issues and felt happy to find others like me through groups online, only to be told indirectly I'm not enough of a woman to qualify for your stupid labeling system. All in all I'm still quite alone Outside the lines of labels and theory's, gender and womanhood. I've never even met anyone like me trans,crossdresser whatever. I've reached out to some over social media groups but none wanted any kind of actual friendship, no matter how long we exchanged messages. Nobody wants to get to know me as a person, I'm always just some sexual curiosity or ''one of those ones'' I'm sorry I just feel so broken right now

[nameinuse]

(((hugs)))

A hug is all I can offer .. and my ears ... and maybe a shoulder. Oh! a hand stretched out in friendship

I hope someone can come along with some words to make you feel more validated

[jack-ie]

Nichole, I've been "just a crossdresser" for years. Yes, like you I sometimes feel (I think) as feminine as any but I've never had any desire to transition. However, if they feel it necessary to assign a label and can't find a place on the chart to place it, that's their problem. I'm happy just being who/what I am.

[Nikki.]

My thinking on this is only partially baked at this point...but there can be a pejorative aspect to the crossdresser label. It encompasses sexual fetishists, which is generally looked down upon in most societies, Some TS peeps hate the idea of being grouped with CIS male fetishists, which is pretty easy to understand. I think the problem is there are cis and trans cross dressers that are driven to cross gender expression, but that negative connotation follows these peeps too. Again, still trying to work this out in my head.

[Aunt Kelly]

Nicole, you are anything but broken, my dear. Yes, it feels that way, and it's a shame that some of us under the TG umbrella would make you fell that way. It may be easy for those true transsexuals to be dismissive of anyone else as something "less than", but it is still wrong. Don't get me wrong, our TS sisters have challenges the rest of us should be glad we are not burdened with, but it's not a competition for "who suffers the most", even though there are some who seem to view it that way. All of us who are TG, and yes, I believe that "umbrella term" applies to all of us, should understand and respect each other, or differences, and our commonality.
For what it's worth, don't get too hung up on any one label. We are all different, and one label often does not really fit. Worse, some of us move back and forth on the spectrum, and while there is a label for that too, calling myself "gender fluid" doesn't seem to give much peace. So I don't expect it to. Understand that you are who you are and that is just fine. Labels be damned. Also, please know that there are people in this community that don't hold the chauvinistic views that you've had to deal with. I too wish I could give you a hug and show you that it's true.

Hugs,


Kelly

[Kas]

Hi Nicole,

I understand what you're saying but I think you are over-thinking it. IMO there are 2 types of cross dressers. One falls into the transexual category, the other falls under the transvestite category. The former, being that you like to dress like a girl because of the way it makes you feeling. For the latter, it's a purely sexual thing.

I think in the documentaries you are referring to where they say such things as "he is only a cross dresser..." Is referring to the transvestic side of things, the "seedy" side. When I look at your DP, I definitely would put you into the transexual category. That's the way I see it at least.

[GaleWarning]

As one who is also 'just a crossdresser' Nicole, let me add my bit.

I have been raging on this forum against the use of labels for years now. Labels put us in boxes. I do not belong in a box, and nor, I suspect, do you.

Be free, Nicole, and do not let others dictate who or what you are.

[Lisa85]

Transgender label does not work. trans-gender == opposite gender, i.e. the only valid approach is switching to other gender. Not applying. want to play by dressing but not switch genders. Huge difference, and since most CD don't want to be known, gets little media lines.


cross dressing kinda of works, but had huge negative connocation. It's not binary, one or the other, but a range of expressions. Fluid dressing is a better expression for me.

[IleneD]

Nicole,

Sorry to hear of your distress. Someone must have abused you in some way for being Yourself. It is a sad state of affairs, I agree. Be strong. That's why you have distant friends via this forum.

As for your primary question of crossdresser vs transgender, I am not a clinician in the psychological sciences. I barely have a grip on my own experience (even after 6 decades). I just try to keep it simple.
Examine the root of "trans-". It has Latin roots and the word or term means "across"; as in TRANSit (go across from one place to another), TRANScontinental railroad (goes across the continent), etc. Both CROSSdressers and TRANSgenders span or cross (go across) the gender spectrum. They cross the boundaries of gender. Trans = Cross. To me they are one in the same and I don't get hung up on labels.

It also makes me more comfortable realizing my real inner femme self isn't just a matter of clothing. When I bought my first dress almost 2 yrs ago and started "all out" full CD, I probably thought of myself as " just" CD. The term CD gave me cover for my real issue which was much deeper into my identity. Now, I more often identify with being transgender, at least by my own standards. To me it means there are two spirits, two forms (not two people) within me and of one person. I have a male "side" and a female side to my persona. It's almost a privilege to have the added depth of spirit that comes from having a distinct woman element.

When my wife (love her, I do) began to studying my 'problem' (crossdressing), she told me she Googled the term "men who want to be women". She didn't investigate "crossdressing" or "transgender". On her search, she received hits and links for both CD an TG; much of it educational and positively informative.

Be at peace about your journey. Nicole, you are a unique being. Few other humans possess both the male and FEMALE qualities within one body, tied to one heart. Enjoy being that person, the one you are.

[Tracii G]

How about not worrying about all that and just be yourself?
You don't HAVE to fit any certain criteria the LGBT has to be who you are.
I never fit in any category and it drove me nuts for years so I know where you are coming from.
I found out all that LGBT,LGBTQ ,trans this and that, gender fluid,inter sexed is all BS and really means nothing who cares?
Just be yourself and do what you want to do, the heck with all the stuff you can't control its not worth worrying about.

[Dana44]

Nicole, first we are transgender. It encompass us. Now I am gender fluid and non binary. However we are transgender and not transsexual. Yes we feel like women and nobody can take that away from us. Just be happy with who you are. When I look at the pictures you have posted I see a woman. So just know that you are okay and nobody can take that away from us.

[Tracii G]

I agree with Dana

[Teresa]

xNicolex,
This was my point some tie ago when Horizon presented a program titled ," Living as a Transgender" . The whole thing was about transition finally showing a full operation . I asked at the time who is getting this label wrong , we have a section for transsexuals in transition , we have section for the transgender dealing with the whole spectrum. So who is getting it wrong ? I would suggest the media are still working on insufficient information and guidance , the problem is they have millions of viewers and many of whom know little or nothing about the subject , the media are still guilty of misleading the general public, but then what's new about that ?

[Charlotte7]

Nicole, you're certainly not broken, you're you. You have done that most valuable thing and discovered who the real you is. It's a great thing to have, such awareness and realisation. Your journey sounds very similar to mine. I am not what many people would call trans, I have no desire to transition, but my cross dressing is there to meet the very real needs of the girl that I know is inside me and part of me. I am not all boy, I am not all girl, I am me and I have learned to be happy with that. We don't need labels to tell us who we are. I don't feel that any part of LGBTQI speaks directly to me, maybe we need to add a 'C'? But that doesn't bother me, as I said, labels are not important

As an aside I see that you are in Ireland, and I expect that (also, to some extent, depending on which part of Ireland you are) this too can bring its own problems. Irish media can be pretty strange at times, and speaking personally I don't think that things like Mrs Brown's Boys helps matters either.

((((HUGS))))

[Jodie_Lynn]

I have found the perfect label for myself, and I suspect (but could be wrong!) for ALL the members of these combined forums as well as the general public!

It is: Human Being.

Try it on for size, see how it sits on you.

[xNicolex]

Thanks girls for all your kind replies I honestly didn't expect such a big response, but I'm happy to see that my opinion is valid in the sense that I'm not the only one thinking this way. I guess my take from reading all your replies is this, I will try to no longer worry so much about the labels that binned me but, just try to be the best version of myself as I can be Forget the haters and discriminators and just be extra AF

[Trione]

I just enjoy the feel of woman clothes, I could never pass (short beard) but wish I could go out somewhere as a MIAD. Enjoy what you enjoy and lets others ruin themselves in their dislikes.

[GretchenM]

Nicole,
What you are feeling is the nature of this reversed gender identity phenomenon. You are not broken and your perceptions are actually right on the money. The whole subject of what constitutes transgender and cisgender and crossdresser and whatever label is a mess when it comes to classification.

Perhaps you might look at it this way. Gender forms a continuous spectrum defined by the vast number of traits and characteristics humans have. Most of us have most of the traits to some extent or other. But the formulas that could, with great difficulty, be devised to describe us are unique to each of us. Even the gender reversal trait is present in cisgender people. Males always have a feminine side and females always have a masculine side. In cisgender people though those sides are small. So, what is cisgender? It is a person who self identifies in a way that is parallel with their sex. What is the key word in that definition? "Self identifies." In other words, all the other categories in the many classifications are based on the diversity of how people view themselves, how they identify. That also means there probably are no clear definitions based on boundaries that are easily found.

Imagine you have a piece of yarn 100 meters long (about 300 feet) that represents gender identity in humans. To portray that representation the yarn is multicolored. But all the colors perfectly blend from one to the next one. The white portion is bounded by blue on one side and red on the other side. But the transition from blue to white is so gradual you really can't tell where blue is no longer in the color and there is only white. On the other side, you are not sure where the white starts getting oh so slightly pink.

Five people try to tell where the yarn is white by drawing a fine line exactly where they think it is white. They all come up with different places. They are close to each other, but none of the lines are in the same place. Then they have to identify where the yarn is half blue and half white as well as half white and half red. Same thing happens. The point is, when you have continuous variation and that variation is vastly more complex than our multicolored yarn, nobody is sure where the boundaries between the precise gender traits and characteristics exist. And maybe there aren't any boundaries at all. But we still need to classify things so we can talk about them. Unfortunately, nobody can agree on where to put the boundary because, like the yarn, it is a continuum based on many, many traits and characteristics.

The point is, to avoid this perplexing classification for you personally you need to recognize that the population of all humans really cannot be divided into units that have clear boundaries. The boundaries we set are based on certain criteria that tend to ignore other criteria that are perfectly valid and cross those boundaries. So, if one looks at all criteria the boundaries vanish. Therefore, any individual on that continuum becomes unique and can only be classified if one selects only part of the total array of traits and characteristics. In short, within the population of all people and all traits and characteristics you are you and I am me. We can each be classified, but the classification system itself is artificial. We do the same thing with human races. We select certain criteria and define on those criteria as if those criteria represent the total spectrum of human variation. Many times now it has been shown that biologically our species is devoid of races. We form a continuum genetically and our races are defined in a way that does not actually exist except if we are discriminating with regard to the criteria.

We do the same thing with gender, political affiliation, and so many other things. So, as others have said, if you want to be consistent with who you are then be yourself and forget about the classification. How do you know what that is? You can use comfort as a measure. If you are comfortable doing this or that or something else then you are close to where you currently are on the vast array of traits and characteristics. But we are not static. What is good today may not be quite as comfortable tomorrow. Or it may be even more comfortable tomorrow. For the individual there is no set place. We change. We all change. The fences aren't really there. We sometimes just act like they are there.

The classification of gender forms is actually quite useful, but, like race, if you use it for purposes it was not designed for or in other improper ways that classification can cause lots of personal and social problems. In my opinion, your "anger" is mainly reaching a point where you have come to realize that gender is like the multicolored strand of yarn. There is no way to actually tell where one form ends and another begins. And you will drive yourself nuts trying to figure that out because, very likely, there are no boundaries. There is just continuous variation with an artificial and completely synthetic classification imposed on it for one purpose - so we can talk about it using a language that demands we find boundaries for everything, even when there are no boundaries.

Gretchen

[Krisi]

I am a crossdresser. A male, straight crossdresser. I am not trans anything, not "LGBT", not "non-binary", nothing but a straight male who dresses as a woman from time to time. Some people, including some members here, seem to think I'm something more. Some even try to tell me I'm something more and want to enforce their definitions on me. Make me into something I am not.

You know what? To hell with them! They are nothing more than a stranger on the Internet. They don't know me and I don't know them.

So xNicolex (and everybody else), You know you better than anyone. Don't worry about other people or what other people think you are. Ignore them or set them straight, your choice. Enjoy life on your own terms.

[Princess Chantal]

Krisi is absolutely correct. Eventhough I do fit in the LGBT community due to my sexual identity (pansexual) and relationship with my life partner, my crossdressing has nothing to do with my gender or even expression of my gender. People in the trans community have tried their darnest to make me more than I am. Those that are close to me - my partner, my family, and my close friends- see that my crossdressing has nothing to do with gender or expression of. While acquaintances within the trans community just don’t understand or even want to.

[ClosetED]

I only had time to read half the responses, but it is all about the label and the semantics and emotional baggage different people tie to it. We, as well as the various societies we each live in, base the meaning of a word not on a dictionary or a well researched evaluation, but on what others have said or heard. The word transgender is often used in the media when referring to the more visible elements of TG spectrum, the transsexuals (yes - another label which may mean different things to you). So the public thinks they are the same. Those of us who know better, may use the label crossdresser to separate us from the other part of the spectrum that others know - the transsexuals. So while we may consider ourselves trans (transgender) and be accurate to well informed people, the meaning to the general public is different and that is your source of anger-but it is nothing you did and until a visible educator of CDing vs TS comes forth to explain to the public, we remain misunderstood.
Hugs, Ellen

[Jean 103]

Nicole, I'm one that really doesn't fit into these boxes. I've been called gender fluid, at the time I didn't know what it ment. I live as Jean a transgender person. I like this as it implies that this isn't just some hobby, it's my life. I live in the real world among everyday people. I've met a few trans people but I don't really feel that I'm one of them. I use the term with people as I believe it is easier for them to understand. I've attended a local transgender support group, i feel like an outsider there because I'm not planning on having any operations. They are all very nice there its just me. To my friends I'm just Jean. No need for lables.

[ellbee]

I've used that phrase "just a crossdresser" here on this forum a few times.

But when I have, I was coming from this mind-set...


From what I know, there's a decent chunk of CD'ers out there (perhaps not on this forum) who simply have a very small "stash" of, say, pantyhose & heels. Heck, they probably don't shave their legs, for that matter.

And what they'll do is throw them on every now & then, in private, do their "man business," then take them off & put them away for another time. It's basically their guilty little sexual secret. Perhaps they "hate" themselves afterward, and maybe even purge once in a while because they feel like they need to stop this little addiction of theirs, perhaps believing that it's "wrong" or "gay." And they don't want anyone to ever find out about it. However, it adds a whole new heightened dimension to their thrill, and it definitely feels oh-so-good. And that's all they do. They are crossdressing -- but in a much different way than quite a few here.

They are *not* going further down the rabbit-hole of a whole female presentation. They don't have a female name for themselves. They aren't registered members of a CD forum, with hundreds of posts under their belt. They don't have the need or desire. For them, it's simply all about a couple key articles of clothing, and the sexual release.


Now, compare that to many of the most-active members here. Are these CD'ers, as I described above, the same as you, or her, or her? No.

Of course, that doesn't mean that their struggle isn't just as real or difficult, either. It is... Just in different ways for them.


I don't know in what context these shows or whatever used this phrase "just a crossdresser," but when *I've* used it, anyway, the above is what I was thinking at the time. Perhaps it's something similar for them?

[CynthiaD]

Saying you're "just a crossdresser" is just like saying you're "just a billionaire." Crossdressing is cool. Crossdressing is something to be proud of. It doesn't matter why we do it or how often, we're not broken. We're the lucky ones. So, be strong, be happy, be proud, and keep wearing your pretty clothes.

[redtea]

Saying you're "just a crossdresser" is just like saying you're "just a billionaire." Crossdressing is cool. Crossdressing is something to be proud of. It doesn't matter why we do it or how often, we're not broken. We're the lucky ones. So, be strong, be happy, be proud, and keep wearing your pretty clothes.

I think i saw the documentary that nicole was referring to. They were separating transgender as if it were something that shouldn't be looked down on and superior from Crossdressing which is for fetish drag queens. It embraces the stereotype that there is something wrong with crossdressing.

It fails to understand the spectrum of CDing.

There are those on the verge of transition, There are those in the middle, There are those who just wear lingerie, There are those who often fully dress up, There are those (me) who only do that about once every 2 months just because it takes up a lot of time.