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  1. #1
    Aspiring Member Jenna Stunned's Avatar
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    Crossdresser Vs Transgender

    The war rages on, Crossdresser vs being Transgender, How do you identify? This thread may get messy so I apologize in advance to the mods. So, I am currently having a fairly complicated and heated debate over on my Facebook page regarding the 2. Apparently there are a large number of transgender woman who complete skip dressing as a woman before actually deciding to become woman, Rather become them selves, Which to me is still an absolute shock as Dressing as a woman has ALWAYS been the only and best way for me to relate to being trans myself. But hey to each there own. Im not one to judge in my mind, And so far most of the others I talk with, Being trans is a state of mind more so than anything else. But not all share in that opinion and are offended at the idea that being trans and being a crossdresser are not COMPLETELY different. Most argue that being a crossdresser is only about sex. All fetish. I KNOW this to be incorrect, But wanted to come here and get some other opinions.

    My post went like this.
    The argument that i have seen pop up more than once is in referring all crossdressers to sexual fetish, Which from my eyes is definitely not the case. Yes, There are definitely people who crossdress to get their jollies off, But Its certainly not everyone who corssdresses. Which leads me to the next argument, What truly defines one sub group from the other? As I have also seen pop up on more than one occasion that being truly trans and just being a crossdresser are very different. As one girl posted "Being a crossdresser is 100% diffnt than being transgender. That is a fact! not debatable... if you honestly do not know that, then your lost!" Well, if its 100 percent different, Where is the hard line? What truly defines one from the other? To me human beings are incredibly complicated social beings each unique in their own thoughts and feelings. Life can be incredibly difficult for all of us where not all of us are free to make the decisions that others are afforded. Freedom isnt free, We all pay for it one way or another. Most of us have had to make great sacrifices in one way or another throughout or lives to be where we are today. How can anyone truly say that there is an absolute difference in how a person relates to there own gender? To me there is no true separation between the two, Only a lot of gray area in which a great deal of us fall into. But, As on girl posted, perhaps im just lost......

    Most replies have been in defense of my statement except for this gem that I woke up to this morning....
    I don't care if I'm hated for saying this statement....I've talked to alot of crossdressers.... and trans....but one thing runs true after an hour talk they finally admit when they take off there cloths there all male....they feel sexy as girls while there wearing woman's clothing....but take it off...all male....they lie...an claim they are Transgender...they are not...all that I have had dealings with we're very agressive sexually showing sex revolving around sex...mostly with men...but sex is what they pushed ...
    They all have earned that reputation...an I for one definitely try to educate crossdresser....or even cross dressing does not make you Transgender...being Transgender is WHO YOU ARE INSIDE....stop forgetting that...that is our separation...an they admit too after a lil debate...
    I don't care if they are gay...or whatever...they can exist....gay..bi lesbian...whatever I'm cool with it...just don't bug me touch me or push your shit
    However....crossdressers stop saying your Effing Transgender....your gay...call it that.....if you were Transgender you wouldn't undress put on men's cloths an be cool with it...your a guy...your a crossdresser dressing to troll for sex...they all have admitted it to me....any who say there not are liers....
    Transgender is not about sex
    Crossdresser are about sex
    That's wear I stand...they claim it...they earned it... but not all, i just woke up to this gem this morning and decided I had to share it here.

    Also written was
    I do beleive that cross dressing is mostly a fetish. For Some it is a lifestyle. I don’t beleive it is trans.

    There were even worse things being said in another posting but I wouldn't stand for what was being said and deleted it all together as I completely disagreed with what was being said. So I ask you fine members of this crossdressing forum. How do you identify? What is your motivation?
    Last edited by Nigella; 11-14-2017 at 12:00 PM. Reason: edited word filtered word

  2. #2
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    I think the issue is that this woman is mistaking transexual for transgender. Crossdressing falls under the transgender umbrella as does transexual. To me, transexual means you are a woman trapped in a mans body. You hate your body, You hate your penis, you want SRS/HRT, You hate all male things in general because to you, you're a girl. Period. The term Crossdressing on the other hand is much open to debate.

    Crossdressing to me seems almost as vague as the term transgender. It's a large category which fits in many people; from those who can only do it a few times a year sexually, to people that dress full time and act like women.

    The thing is, crossdressers do not hate their bodies, penises etc and are happy to just do what they do. Unlike transsexuals where it is a constant mental and emotional battle with yourself.

    I agree crossdressers cannot consider themselves transexual unless they are wanting to transition, but we are definitely transgender.

    I think what she is referring to is called a "transvestic fetishist" (transvestite) Which is a purely sexual form of crossdressing.

    I wouldn't pay too much attention to her if she can't understand that crossdressing falls under the Transgender category.

    I identify as transgender and a crossdressers.
    Last edited by Kas; 11-14-2017 at 07:32 AM.

  3. #3
    Banned Read only Vicky_Scot's Avatar
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    I agree with Kas. Crossdressing comes under the umbrella known as Transgender. Transgender is a name that encompasses crossdressers, transvestites (which are both the same actually), transsexuals and many more. It seems that the media have hijacked the term for Transsexuals only when that is not the case.

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    Hi Vicky

    I have heard that the word transvestite is outdated now and has actually been replaced with "transvestic fetishist" in recent writing. I guess it's just another label to add to the long list haha
    Last edited by Kas; 11-14-2017 at 07:10 AM.

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    Its always dangerous to ascribe intentions or motives to others. its much more informative to express what a term that applies to you means to you. I define myself as transgender. I probably have multiple dimensions to my desire to experience and express myself as a woman...even as I recognize my physical and emotional limitations. I doubt my specific mix of such stuff is identical to others who deem themselves to be transgender but I suspect the similarities out weigh the differences.
    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

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    Junior Member Samantha uk's Avatar
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    For me I see transgender as an umbrella term that encompasses everything from transsexuals to part time crossdressers like myself. Its important to have discussions like these and I know people will say they don't want to be labeled as anything, but the trouble is it makes it very confusing to try and explain how you feel when there are no definitive terms use. Its like trying describe left and right to a ball

  7. #7
    I can only be me Samm's Avatar
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    Hi Jenna. For me, at first, the sexual feeling from dressing was about the only feeling I could identify. (This is going back almost 35 years). Other than it just "feeling right", I could never come up with a definitive answer. I'm hetero. I dress maybe once a week for a couple of hours. I am male. I know this for certain. But I still think that (for me ), I'm not "just a crossdresser". From a very early age (like second grade), I always felt I was different and felt I never quite fit in anywhere. I do feel that there must be some percentage, however small, of female in there somewhere. Even if it's 1 percent, for example. Does that make me 1 percent trans? I think so in some way. It's definitely more than "I just like the clothes" But that's just me..... whatever that is

  8. #8
    Aspiring Member sarah_hillcrest's Avatar
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    To me this entire argument is just dumb. To me it seems plainly obvious that there is a difference between crossdressing and transsexuals, but they both are crossing gender roles which is a very definition of transgender. I think some, especially, younger folks have taken ownership of the term "transgender" and treat it like a holy sacred word. I hate to throw out the term "snowflake" but this kind of behavior is where that word gets its power from. It's like, I'm this, and its very special and meaningful, and you're this which is fine but it's not as special and meaningful as me. They just need to grow up.

    It's also painfully obvious that everyone is different, some people have strong libido and others don't. Some may get their kicks off from crossdressing and attracting men, while others may be happy to pretend to be a girl while online gaming wearing the exact same clothes that all the guys are wearing.

    There also seems to be an issue that younger trans people have with the whole notion of "gendering" and this it's wrong. Yet they are furious about protecting their pronoun.

  9. #9
    Member Diane Taylor's Avatar
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    Why are so many of us so worried about labels? Just be who and what you are and don't worry about whether you're trans this or trans that. Just my two cents.

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    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    "Thou protestith too much!" I've been accused of not being trans enuff quite often. Online and here!

    Almost all dressers of every ilk at one time or another have been turned on by elements of their dressing. Or like me, by the complete female image in their mirrors!

    Many trans would like to forget that "dirty" side of dressing, and come down hard on us "fetish dressers" as being "completely different". That's easy for me to understand. Altho, I don't appreciate their negativity.

    There r times I get turned on by dressing.
    Others when sex is the last thing on my mind!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  11. #11
    Platinum Blonde member Ressie's Avatar
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    Even though there are other threads with pretty much the same topic, I think there's a good discussion going on here. It might help some of us take another look at our selves and also better understand where others are coming from.
    "You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    Even if it's 1 percent, for example. Does that make me 1 percent trans?
    Yes, it would make you 1% transgender.
    Last edited by Kas; 11-14-2017 at 07:09 AM.

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    The way that it works for me is quite simple: We are whatever we want to be and however we want to define ourselves, but, what we do does fall somewhere on the transgender spectrum. In my mind the two, what we are and what we do are not linked. Unless that it is, the individual chooses to make that link. Me, I'm more than happy to define myself as a non-transsexual, transgender, non-fetishistic crossdresser. That's my label for me. Your personal label may be different, for you, and it is no less valid.

  14. #14
    Gold Member Read only Rachael Leigh's Avatar
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    Yes the word transgender means many things, for me I do seperate a CD verses someone who is going to live fulltime presenting as a women, now that includes those who don’t opt for surgery, which I find for some in here is like sacrilege.
    For some who are trans that live as women they dont go complete for many reasons, doesn’t mean they are not trans.
    Like Diann says I don’t like labels but I’m a trans women and that’s me. I dress at home when no one can see me and I
    present in public it’s not sexual for me it’s just me.
    Rachael

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    May i suggest a peaceful resolution. Whether in Facebook or life, we seem to focused on that which separates or differentiates us from others. It serves little purpose, yields no benefits.

    Arguing definitions is like arguing about what is blue. No doubt most of us have a common perception of the color, but with inevitable and wide ranging variation.

    As so many have stated below, this topic need not be discussed as A vs B, but rather how are A and B alike and in what ways dissimilar

  16. #16
    Aspiring Member Rayleen's Avatar
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    What ever you would like to call me :

    one day I feel Girly and dress up ...destresser.

    another day I hate my male organs and wish I was Femme.

    so do not like me in male mode on other days

    I'm a human being sensitive and caring

    Lets call it somewhere someone in between.

  17. #17
    New Member katiej1989's Avatar
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    I was a "crossdresser" for a lot of years before I realized I was actually transgender, and that my crossdressing had been a way to cope with expressing my gender. The realization came when I listened to a video entitled "am I a crossdresser or transgender" and I literally ticked every box in the transgender column. A tipping point was that I had started to cry (or felt like crying) when it was time to stop dressing up - that and realizing I had been daydreaming about being a girl since about age 6 before I even realized I could wear girls' clothes.

    As far as others, I really don't think you need to label yourself. I'm probably not 'exactly' transgender based on all the labels that fly around in the lgbt world - i know there's now dozens of different ways to identify yourself, but I think people, personally, just need to take the time to figure out who they are and what they want, and why they crossdress. Doing that will help bridge that gap and maybe you will realize, like I did, that you aren't just a crossdresser, but that you've been a girl (or boy, or whatever) this whole time, and dressing up was a way to connect with that internal identity.

  18. #18
    Banned Read only Vicky_Scot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katiej1989 View Post
    I was a "crossdresser" for a lot of years before I realized I was actually transgender, and that my crossdressing had been a way to cope with expressing my gender. The realization came when I listened to a video entitled "am I a crossdresser or transgender" and I literally ticked every box in the transgender column. A tipping point was that I had started to cry (or felt like crying) when it was time to stop dressing up - that and realizing I had been daydreaming about being a girl since about age 6 before I even realized I could wear girls' clothes.

    As far as others, I really don't think you need to label yourself. I'm probably not 'exactly' transgender based on all the labels that fly around in the lgbt world - i know there's now dozens of different ways to identify yourself, but I think people, personally, just need to take the time to figure out who they are and what they want, and why they crossdress. Doing that will help bridge that gap and maybe you will realize, like I did, that you aren't just a crossdresser, but that you've been a girl (or boy, or whatever) this whole time, and dressing up was a way to connect with that internal identity.
    Being a crossdresser means your are under the Transgender umbrella. What's so difficult to understand. Transgender on its own is not a condition.

  19. #19
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimdl93 View Post
    As so many have stated below, this topic need not be discussed as A vs B, but rather how are A and B alike and in what ways dissimilar
    I believe I understand where you are going with this, but I must point out that the refusal to agree on terms is what leads to the inevitable discord in threads like this. We can and should agree that we're all different and that this or that label does not completely describe many of us, but it is a huge mistake to suggest that this gives us license to redefine the term. Yes, definitions are slippery things. They do change over time, but that change is one born of consensus and/or common usage. Again, it is folly to expect others to adopt your definition of a term simply because you say it is such and such.
    I am a crossdresser, but it would be stupid for me to insist that another is not because I see some difference between her and me. At the same time, we are both transgender, according to the consensus of those to whom we turn to for such guidance, academia and the professional community. It would be folly for me to insist that I am not TG because am not a TS.

    Look, I know that we can all lay legitimate claim to being "misunderstood", and to having legitimate doubts about where we fit in and what label applies to us, but putting our own definition to accepted terms serves nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly View Post
    I believe I understand where you are going with this, but I must point out that the refusal to agree on terms is what leads to the inevitable discord in threads like this. We can and should agree that we're all different and that this or that label does not completely describe many of us, but it is a huge mistake to suggest that this gives us license to redefine the term. Yes, definitions are slippery things. They do change over time, but that change is one born of consensus and/or common usage. Again, it is folly to expect others to adopt your definition of a term simply because you say it is such and such.
    I am a crossdresser, but it would be stupid for me to insist that another is not because I see some difference between her and me. At the same time, we are both transgender, according to the consensus of those to whom we turn to for such guidance, academia and the professional community. It would be folly for me to insist that I am not TG because am not a TS.

    Look, I know that we can all lay legitimate claim to being "misunderstood", and to having legitimate doubts about where we fit in and what label applies to us, but putting our own definition to accepted terms serves nothing.
    Hi Kelly,

    I agree with you. We can say we are whatever we want, but these terms do have actual definitions (dictionary). We may not agree with these ourselves, but we have to accept that this is how others will use the term to describe us and technically they would be correct. According to the Oxford dictionary, Cross-dress means to "Wear clothing typical of the opposite sex". So by that definition, I could say transsexuals are also cross-dressers as long as they are wearing women's clothing. Of course they would not appreciate that, but it's true none the less...
    Last edited by Kas; 11-15-2017 at 05:01 AM.

  21. #21
    Member Julie Slowinski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    According to the Oxford dictionary, Cross-dress means to "Wear clothing typical of the opposite sex". So by that definition, I could say transsexuals are also cross-dressers as long as they are wearing women's clothing. Of course they would not appreciate that, but it's true none the less...
    I believe the transsexuals I have talked to would disagree. They consider themselves women, regardless of the state of their transition. As such, female attire would not be considered crossdressing. I have seen many say that dressing male mode is the crossdressing part.

    By the way, I am seeing a number people use the term ‘Trans Woman’ instead of transsexual. Seems the later is becoming dated, the same way transvestite is dated. Feels more appropriate to me, and I am expecting this terminology will become more popular.

    My apologies to any trans men out there. I didn’t forget about you - all my statement apply equality, but of course in reverse.
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    My two cents runs along the same line as I commented elsewhere on this forum. Stop letting yourself be put in a box. It seems as if it is always trying to fit the square peg in a round hole. Our society constantly tries to put everyone in some sort of box. Fill in the darn bubbles on a survey. There are not sufficient bubbles on a survey to accommodate all the unique individuals. I've seen or read in the media a constantly increasing number of descriptive words trying to accommodate everyone's unique qualities.

    If you get into a conversation with someone tell them what you feel. Don't stuff yourself into somebody else's box. Life is not simple.

  23. #23
    Super Moderator GretchenJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    We can say we are whatever we want, but these terms do have actual definitions (dictionary). We may not agree with these ourselves, but we have to accept that this is how others will use the term to describe us and technically they would be correct. According to the Oxford dictionary, Cross-dress means to "Wear clothing typical of the opposite sex". So by that definition, I could say transsexuals are also cross-dressers as long as they are wearing women's clothing. Of course they would not appreciate that, but it's true none the less...
    This is not only wrong , but extremely insensitive as well. Insinuating that those who have transitioned , but they are still the sex they were born, is like shouting fire in a crowded theater, and to imply that they are just cross dressing is crass and just insulting (and I am non-binary, so I have no horse in this race)


    But if you want to get technical, there are many dictionaries as well, instead of looking at one as the definitive source
    For example , Collins American Dictionary defines Transexual as :
    a person who is predisposed to identify with the opposite sex, sometimes so strongly as to undergo surgery and hormone injections to effect a change of sex

    So by this definition, they ARE dressing in conjunction to their current sex, and not cross dressing.

    There are also many law and medical dictionaries that agree with is definition.

    And yes, when you say that this is not your opinion, but lob a grenade anyway, then you are indeed trolling!


    P.S. Since you seem to be hung up on dictionary definition, read this one:

    Trolling:
    make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them
    Last edited by GretchenJ; 11-16-2017 at 09:03 PM.

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    Hi gretchen,

    I am not insinuating anything. I did not write this definition and you are correct. Different sources have different definitions.

    But who's to say the Collins American dictionary is any more right or wrong than the Oxford or vice-versa?

    I'm saying you cannot blame somebody for assigning a label to somebody, when as far as they're aware, that's what they are. Sure, maybe they read the "incorrect" definition, but if that's the only definition they know then that's how they're going to use it.

    This is all I've been trying to say from the beginning and somehow it's blown up into everybody thinking im against TS now or something... I have ZERO problem with TS and have considered HRT myself so don't assume I do have a problem.

    This is related to the OPs original post so not sure why so much hate (mainly from mods). Maybe the woman she was arguing with had simply read the "wrong" definition. You can't blame someone for something they don't know.

    Trolling:
    make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them
    Wow this blew my mind. I cannot believe you somehow think you have the ability to read my mind and know my intentions when I make a post. I DID NOT post this with the aim of upsetting/making anybody angry and i find it very offensive that you would say that.
    Last edited by Kas; 11-16-2017 at 09:56 PM.

  25. #25
    Mannequiniste ! Stacy Darling's Avatar
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    Deciphering the written word on this subject is quite overwhelming for me, not to mention the difference in opinion which always interrupts a good read!

    So Jenna, I identify purely as a Crossdresser! Not the type described by your ranting fan though!
    I dress because I wish to be beautiful, whether male, female or 50/50! Same with sex!

    Stacy!
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