Crossdresser Vs Transgender

[Jenna Stunned]

The war rages on, Crossdresser vs being Transgender, How do you identify? This thread may get messy so I apologize in advance to the mods. So, I am currently having a fairly complicated and heated debate over on my Facebook page regarding the 2. Apparently there are a large number of transgender woman who complete skip dressing as a woman before actually deciding to become woman, Rather become them selves, Which to me is still an absolute shock as Dressing as a woman has ALWAYS been the only and best way for me to relate to being trans myself. But hey to each there own. Im not one to judge in my mind, And so far most of the others I talk with, Being trans is a state of mind more so than anything else. But not all share in that opinion and are offended at the idea that being trans and being a crossdresser are not COMPLETELY different. Most argue that being a crossdresser is only about sex. All fetish. I KNOW this to be incorrect, But wanted to come here and get some other opinions.

My post went like this.
The argument that i have seen pop up more than once is in referring all crossdressers to sexual fetish, Which from my eyes is definitely not the case. Yes, There are definitely people who crossdress to get their jollies off, But Its certainly not everyone who corssdresses. Which leads me to the next argument, What truly defines one sub group from the other? As I have also seen pop up on more than one occasion that being truly trans and just being a crossdresser are very different. As one girl posted "Being a crossdresser is 100% diffnt than being transgender. That is a fact! not debatable... if you honestly do not know that, then your lost!" Well, if its 100 percent different, Where is the hard line? What truly defines one from the other? To me human beings are incredibly complicated social beings each unique in their own thoughts and feelings. Life can be incredibly difficult for all of us where not all of us are free to make the decisions that others are afforded. Freedom isnt free, We all pay for it one way or another. Most of us have had to make great sacrifices in one way or another throughout or lives to be where we are today. How can anyone truly say that there is an absolute difference in how a person relates to there own gender? To me there is no true separation between the two, Only a lot of gray area in which a great deal of us fall into. But, As on girl posted, perhaps im just lost......

Most replies have been in defense of my statement except for this gem that I woke up to this morning....
I don't care if I'm hated for saying this statement....I've talked to alot of crossdressers.... and trans....but one thing runs true after an hour talk they finally admit when they take off there cloths there all male....they feel sexy as girls while there wearing woman's clothing....but take it off...all male....they lie...an claim they are Transgender...they are not...all that I have had dealings with we're very agressive sexually showing sex revolving around sex...mostly with men...but sex is what they pushed ...
They all have earned that reputation...an I for one definitely try to educate crossdresser....or even cross dressing does not make you Transgender...being Transgender is WHO YOU ARE INSIDE....stop forgetting that...that is our separation...an they admit too after a lil debate...
I don't care if they are gay...or whatever...they can exist....gay..bi lesbian...whatever I'm cool with it...just don't bug me touch me or push your shit
However....crossdressers stop saying your Effing Transgender....your gay...call it that.....if you were Transgender you wouldn't undress put on men's cloths an be cool with it...your a guy...your a crossdresser dressing to troll for sex...they all have admitted it to me....any who say there not are liers....
Transgender is not about sex
Crossdresser are about sex
That's wear I stand...they claim it...they earned it... but not all, i just woke up to this gem this morning and decided I had to share it here.

Also written was
I do beleive that cross dressing is mostly a fetish. For Some it is a lifestyle. I don’t beleive it is trans.

There were even worse things being said in another posting but I wouldn't stand for what was being said and deleted it all together as I completely disagreed with what was being said. So I ask you fine members of this crossdressing forum. How do you identify? What is your motivation?

[Kas]

I think the issue is that this woman is mistaking transexual for transgender. Crossdressing falls under the transgender umbrella as does transexual. To me, transexual means you are a woman trapped in a mans body. You hate your body, You hate your penis, you want SRS/HRT, You hate all male things in general because to you, you're a girl. Period. The term Crossdressing on the other hand is much open to debate.

Crossdressing to me seems almost as vague as the term transgender. It's a large category which fits in many people; from those who can only do it a few times a year sexually, to people that dress full time and act like women.

The thing is, crossdressers do not hate their bodies, penises etc and are happy to just do what they do. Unlike transsexuals where it is a constant mental and emotional battle with yourself.

I agree crossdressers cannot consider themselves transexual unless they are wanting to transition, but we are definitely transgender.

I think what she is referring to is called a "transvestic fetishist" (transvestite) Which is a purely sexual form of crossdressing.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to her if she can't understand that crossdressing falls under the Transgender category.

I identify as transgender and a crossdressers.

[Vicky_Scot]

I agree with Kas. Crossdressing comes under the umbrella known as Transgender. Transgender is a name that encompasses crossdressers, transvestites (which are both the same actually), transsexuals and many more. It seems that the media have hijacked the term for Transsexuals only when that is not the case.

[Kas]

Hi Vicky

I have heard that the word transvestite is outdated now and has actually been replaced with "transvestic fetishist" in recent writing. I guess it's just another label to add to the long list haha

[Samm]

Hi Jenna. For me, at first, the sexual feeling from dressing was about the only feeling I could identify. (This is going back almost 35 years). Other than it just "feeling right", I could never come up with a definitive answer. I'm hetero. I dress maybe once a week for a couple of hours. I am male. I know this for certain. But I still think that (for me ), I'm not "just a crossdresser". From a very early age (like second grade), I always felt I was different and felt I never quite fit in anywhere. I do feel that there must be some percentage, however small, of female in there somewhere. Even if it's 1 percent, for example. Does that make me 1 percent trans? I think so in some way. It's definitely more than "I just like the clothes" But that's just me..... whatever that is

[Kas]

Even if it's 1 percent, for example. Does that make me 1 percent trans?

Yes, it would make you 1% transgender.

[sarah_hillcrest]

To me this entire argument is just dumb. To me it seems plainly obvious that there is a difference between crossdressing and transsexuals, but they both are crossing gender roles which is a very definition of transgender. I think some, especially, younger folks have taken ownership of the term "transgender" and treat it like a holy sacred word. I hate to throw out the term "snowflake" but this kind of behavior is where that word gets its power from. It's like, I'm this, and its very special and meaningful, and you're this which is fine but it's not as special and meaningful as me. They just need to grow up.

It's also painfully obvious that everyone is different, some people have strong libido and others don't. Some may get their kicks off from crossdressing and attracting men, while others may be happy to pretend to be a girl while online gaming wearing the exact same clothes that all the guys are wearing.

There also seems to be an issue that younger trans people have with the whole notion of "gendering" and this it's wrong. Yet they are furious about protecting their pronoun.

[kimdl93]

May i suggest a peaceful resolution. Whether in Facebook or life, we seem to focused on that which separates or differentiates us from others. It serves little purpose, yields no benefits.

Arguing definitions is like arguing about what is blue. No doubt most of us have a common perception of the color, but with inevitable and wide ranging variation.

As so many have stated below, this topic need not be discussed as A vs B, but rather how are A and B alike and in what ways dissimilar

[Charlotte7]

The way that it works for me is quite simple: We are whatever we want to be and however we want to define ourselves, but, what we do does fall somewhere on the transgender spectrum. In my mind the two, what we are and what we do are not linked. Unless that it is, the individual chooses to make that link. Me, I'm more than happy to define myself as a non-transsexual, transgender, non-fetishistic crossdresser. That's my label for me. Your personal label may be different, for you, and it is no less valid.

[Stacy Darling]

Deciphering the written word on this subject is quite overwhelming for me, not to mention the difference in opinion which always interrupts a good read!

So Jenna, I identify purely as a Crossdresser! Not the type described by your ranting fan though!
I dress because I wish to be beautiful, whether male, female or 50/50! Same with sex!

Stacy!

[XemmaX]

Crossdresser/gender fluid/ t-girl etc is ok by me but tbh i just do me whatever that is. I think the problem is that there's some misdirected hate from transwomen onto cd's as some not all seem to think crossdressers are making them look bad and are responsible partly for why there is so much discrimination against transwomen in particular.

[Ressie]

Some people see everything in black and white. And once again we see the ambiguity of the word transgender. There are some (a small percentage) fetishistic Crossdressers that don't realize that they are actually transexuals according to scientific studies. It has to do with gender dysphoria - whether or not one has GD and how intense it is. There are also crossdressers that are emotionally attached rather than sexually attached to dressing.

Arguing about labels and such based on how one feels isn't scientific. It's just opinion from observing one's self. There is so much ignorance regarding this even among transgender people. I don't consider myself an expert, yet I find it amazing that there is so much argument going on due to ignorance. There is tons of information available covering studies throughout the 20th century up until more recent years. Maybe in another 100 years there will be answers to all the questions.

As for myself, I'm pretty much a fetishistic CD. Although I emotionally wanted to a female when I was a teenager. I didn't quite feel that I was trapped in the wrong body as most TS say. I'm masculine in some ways and feminine in some ways. I've just always been jealous of women I guess. SRS wouldn't be enough for me though. My dream is to be a genetic woman which can only be a dream.

[Samm]

Yes, it would make you 1% transgender.

thank you Kas, I'll take that!

[Pat]

This thread may get messy so I apologize in advance to the mods.

And this moderator assures you it will not get messy or it will get locked/deleted. I hope we understand each other.

[Ineke Vashon]

No need for labels for me. I just like to wear women's clothing. Makes me feel normal, relaxed, pretty and in line with what I feel inside.

Ineke

[Jenna Stunned]

Absolutely, Wasn't my intent to start a flame war, Just Ive seen this get out of hand elsewhere, And that is not my intention. Just wanted to get some more opinions on the subject.

[Jean 103]

First Kas is right.
I'm not transexual, I don't hate my body. I do wish it wear different but don't hate it, as a transexual does. I know a couple that have had SRS without knowing their sexual preference, and have never been with a man, (MTF). They need the surgery to feel complete. They don't just want to live as a woman, they want to be a woman. If you understand this it will help you to understand them.

As I said this is not me. I'm what is called gender fluid. I'm out , I live two live's , at work I'm a guy, the rest of the time I'm Jean. It's not that cut and dry, but in general it is how I currently live. I live in the real world. I'm going to a baby shower this Saturday, is that main stream enough for you.
Labels are just that, only labels. Forget about this stuff and just live life as you wish. It's what I do.

[Krisi]

Well, it's already gotten a bit out of hand as some folks have stated things that they believe to be true as fact when in fact, they are not fact.

Nobody here knows what is on another person's mind or why he does certain things. And nobody here has the right to hang a label on somebody else.

This thread should be deleted and the entire subject banned.

[Sara Jessica]

Jenna, the sense I get from the examples you provided tell me that those who are arguing in favor of transgender are doing so to make it a more exclusive status that completely eschews the "lowly" crossdresser.

Sarah above says it so very well. As such, I will try to convey some thoughts from my simplistic point of view:

1) Crossdressing is something one does. It is behavior that can define a person as a "crossdresser".

2) Transgender is a wide-reaching descriptive term that can be used to describe elements from the entire gender spectrum.

3) Transsexual is the person who identifies as being a gender that is not what they were labeled with at birth.

Transsexual is who one is. Crossdressing is what one does. A crossdresser is engaging in transgender behavior by adopting the clothes/look/mannerisms of the female gender but that person doesn't necessarily have to be transgender. The transsexual individual can define themselves as transgender by their very nature rather than the behavior of crossdressing.

Simple? Maybe. Confusing? Likely!!!

Bottom line is that it seems that those who protest that the crossdressing individual is in no way transgender just doesn't like that blurry real estate between those areas at the extreme ends of the gender spectrum. This spectrum allows people to migrate as they become fully aware of their sense of self from a gender standpoint. And that is perfectly OK.

[CONSUELO]

Jenna,

There is no war. Humankind has long had a tendency to argue and become heated over the smallest things. Rather than us trying to make a definition based upon our limited experience, perhaps we should just accept whatever the current definition of these words by the psychiatric/psychologic community. There are a number of well researched books available that go into this in some detail. I defer to them.
As for me I am a fetishistic transvestite. I love to dress, I love the clothing, makeup, shoes, jewelry etc. etc.. I awake in the morning and think of how I should dress that day. I find that dressing in feminine attire is a very sensual and sometimes sexually arousing activity. It has been that way since I was very, very young. I have a male body and I don't have any plans to change it.

[Robertacd]

What truly defines one sub group from the other?

The need to feel superior over others.

I have always found people hung up on labels are so because they want to be sure their label makes them superior over your label.

[Pat]

I'm not transexual, I don't hate my body. I do wish it wear different but don't hate it, as a transexual does.

Let me suggest this: let transsexuals say what transsexuals feel/experience. You say what you feel/experience. Do not assign motives or experiences to others and then everyone is on solid ground. Not TS? Then you have nothing to say about them. Not a fetishistic crossdresser? Same deal. It's when you reply for others that the fights start and threads disappear. I'm hoping we can have this discussion without that happening.

[nikkim83]

Here it is from my perspective.

I am a crossdresser, I wake up every morning, and I hate the lump in my throat, my flat chest, my course skin, and broad shoulders. I wish everyday that I had a chest, and could match on the outside how I would like to on the inside.

I wish everyday that it was a simple as saying screw this grabbing a handful of pills, and scheduling about 10 surgeries, and being able to change my entire appearance it isn't. I made decisions when younger that prohibit me doing that (Children). There is literally only ONE male moniker that I love and that is being called Daddy.

I have experimented with a guy before, it happened twice, once in fem once not and guess what I hated both, and will not do it again. I guess if my dressing is hiding that I am gay, it is because I prefer sex in Female mode with women (wanna be lesbian I guess).

My earliest memory of wanting to cross dress was at 6 years old, I wanted a pretty pageant dress, I had no freaking idea what sex or fetishes were I just knew that it was pretty it looked right and I wanted one.

So here is my admission when I take my clothes off, I go back to male because that is what a good Dad does. I don't want to I still have to look at the humongous bump in my throat, I still have to look at my hands, I still have to look at my flat chest, broad shoulders, and I could care less about what is between my legs it is just a means to an end. When the clothing comes off I hate myself but AT least for that day that one snippet in time I get to feel normal, THAT is what my crossdressing is about

Please don't be offended by this transitioning is not easy from the sickness caused by pills, to the pain caused by surgeries, to the reactions by those whom you thought were your friends. Either way is a hard path and I would imagine without a doubt that a ton of people would give almost anything if the hurting would just stop.

[Kendalli]

Kas you hot it spot on. And I agree with you too Sarah_hillcrest that a lot of younger people are way too sensitive on how they are referred as.

[GretchenJ]

I have a rather oversimplified rationale about these two labels , and it relates to Gender Expression and Gender Indentity

Cross Dressers present as a member of the opposite sex as a means of Gender Expression (Presentation). At all times though , their Gender Identity matches their assigned sex at birth

Transgender people also crossdress as well as means of Gender Expression, but during this time their Gender Identity also matches their presenting gender at this time. Furthermore, their gender identity can also transform to their non assigned birth gender without the need of cross dressing.