I peek in on this thread with interest because it speaks to what I might experience with my own children. But for gosh sakes, where is it remotely OK for a 12 year old girl to see her dad running around sporting panties or thongs?!?!
I peek in on this thread with interest because it speaks to what I might experience with my own children. But for gosh sakes, where is it remotely OK for a 12 year old girl to see her dad running around sporting panties or thongs?!?!
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
THis statement I agree with whole-hardheartedly in no way should a child see this, but like wise I don't run around in boxers in front of my kids either.Originally Posted by Sara Jessica
https://www.flickr.com/photos/154785793@N04/
Flickr Nickiem83
Sephora is my drug.
Kas,It is all about how important your gender expression really is.. Some long timers like Sara Jessica know my story. There is no "out" when you start a child's acceptance early. Things just go along as the years go by. My Daughter.now 16 , has been everywhere with me since age 5.There was no other choice as i had to socially transition to feel whole. I believe that kids "read" their Mom's interaction with Dad..If Mom is cool with something,they are as well. What works in one family may not in another. If you NEED to be out to a young family,then make sure you are on the same page as your wife..
This sentence means a lot to me. Thank you, Rogina! That's a great way of seeing things.There is no "out" when you start a child's acceptance early.
this seems fundamentally self defeating. does a gay couple raising a child protect him/her from their "perversion"?
it isn't a perversion to be gay. why are we the biggest obstacles to ourselves --'uck doctor spock.
Terza,
Nobody mentioned the word "perversion" or anything about gay couples, so what exactly are you talking about?
If you haven't noticed, crossdressing isn't something which is generally accepted by society. Like it or not.
Last edited by Kas; 11-22-2017 at 12:47 AM.
my point is don't treat cd as one. even it cd isn't accepted --which is the euphemism for "perversion"
i don't like it, and we been taking the wrong tactics to "come out" --at least for the heterosexuals.
if you don't think cd is a confused lot, then i would love to hear otherwise.
I am sorry Kaz but you are too harsh to Terza. Maybe could be worded better but I understand her point. By not being 'out' to your own children you would only perpetuate the myth in the general population that crossdressing is a problem (just as in the reference to gay couples with a child). If you bring them up with it as part of their normal everday lives they will spend the rest of their lives busting that myth. Hiding it from them would not protect them from anything. I do not agree that children will out you, my son was more than capable of understanding if something was to be kept within the family or not from as soon as he could talk. He is older now and is, I believe, not transgender, but he would fight for the rights of any non-binary person without question. Even so he has not, and would not, tell anyone about dadies skirts unless I said he could. Changing attitudes to 'different lifestyles' in society as a whole starts with the next generation and their attitude comes from their upbringing. Protecting them is opressing you. Here in the UK the current generation of school age kids have largely moved on and the future looks bright for alternative lifestyles. I am constantly amazed how progressive and inclusive the attitude of my son and his school colleagues is. Despite living in a rural backwater with an poorly educated local poulation with almost zero ambition, many kids in his school are happy to be declare themselves to be gay or bisexual without any negative consequence at all. Such things are a non-event. He has never seen any bullying related to sexual orientation, gender or any similar other issue at any of the three schools he has attended. I know of several transgender kids living as their non-birth gender without any issue fom their peers and and their peers parents. My advise to you is to normalise this part of you to your kids. There is always a risk but you take that everytime you step out of the closet. If you could not live with the consequences of being 'outed' I believe you should only ever crossdress in a locked room with the curtains drawn. Otherwise the risk is there whether or not you have children (in the know or not). Just my own experience.
Daisy
Hi daisy,
I assume terza was directing her original comment towards the post I made previously, in which case I do not understand how she came to the assumption that I want to "protect" my kid from this so called "perversion" of mine. Or how being open with my child from day one is somehow "fundamentally self defeating"... Maybe I read it incorrectly, but it just didn't make sense to me.
Anyway...Thank you for sharing your personal experience. I am glad the world is changing, even if it is at a snails pace...
Last edited by Kas; 11-22-2017 at 05:49 AM.
There's really no right or wrong answer here. I believe that if children are "exposed" to cross dressing right away it will be accepted because that's what they've always seen and it wouldn't become a problem. However, other people's kids are brought up differently and your kids would have to deal with them and that could be a problem.
Indeed I think you read it incorrectly and, as you say, made an assumption which is always risky.
You also told Terza "If you haven't noticed, crossdressing isn't something which is generally accepted by society. Like it or not." I think you are overstating that. There is a difference between looking at (or even staring at) something that is not mainstream, and not accepting it. If I see a bearded guy in a dress I can not help but have a look but I, more than anyone, accept his desire to dress like that and would risk my life to defend that freedom. It is no different to people staring at a pair of conjoined twins in a shopping mall. People just can't help but be curious in non-standard. In my experience most people these days (in the UK at least) do accept crossdressing just as they do any other non-mainstream presentation such as Goths, steampunk etc. Just do not expect them not to stare unless you pass. Just because they may not partake and may not understand why others do, does not mean they don't accept your right to do it. I really believe some of us are our own worst enemies when it comes to this.
In my opinion,it all is about teaching the family about gender expression. It is a building block program..and some people don't need so many blocks because they are not going to take it far..I had an inner need to socially transition,so I made bold steps from early on. For others,that only desire the freedom to "dress", their steps don't have to be so bold as for many,it is only about the clothes and kids can adjust to that easily.
Daisy,
I meant as in accepted as "normal". If it was generally "accepted" like you say, why do so many of us have issues coming out? Anxiety, divorce, bullying, loss of jobs/friends/family etc.
Let me put it this way. I don't think anybody's wife is going to divorce them because they find out their husband is secretly into steampunk...
Anyway I think we're getting off the point now...
Last edited by Kas; 11-22-2017 at 08:04 AM.
Well I didn't want to go off topic Kas but you have asked me a question it would be rude not to answer it.
I do not know why so many have issues coming out but to address your suggestions:
Anxiety is all in your own mind and only you can stop it.
Divorce, well if two people are truely suited soul mates that should be together, would a harmless bit of dressing up really end in divorce?
Bullying is only effective if the 'victim' allows it to be. If they do not give a **** about the bullying then the bullies stop as there is simply no point to it.
Loss of job due to crossdressing habits would be illegal in UK. Lots of easily won compensation available so a plus if it did happen.
Loss of friends. Really, you would call someone a friend who drops you because of your choice of clothes? Some friend. My friends just think it makes more interesting.
Loss of family. What ever happened to unconditional love?
Maybe it is different in Aus but here people have more to worry about than what others are wearing. I still believe that the biggest obstacle for a British crossdresser is our own exagerated worry about others reaction.
Daisy
Hi daisy,
I agree, in a perfect world everything you say would be 100% true.
But in reality:
The anxiety is caused by the stigma surrounding CDing and the thoughts which dominate your mind about being found out, caught, outed, losing relationships etc. obviously it's all in your mind, but if you believe you have any control over it you're wrong.
Divorce happens. Ask other member of this forum.
As for bullying, it is certainly not the victims fault like you are implying. It's easy to say "just ignore it" or whatever. But some people can't no matter how hard they try.
Loss of job may not occur from being fired because you are a crossdresser, but because of the embarrassment it may cause you if you were outed unintentionally.
Loss of friends happens too. Friends don't like being lied to as much as SOs.
Family - goes along with divorce. No wife, no kids. Religious parents/upbringing etc..
I concur wholeheartedly with Kas, not only with how thoughtful she is being in this situation but also her responses to reality. I'll add...
Anxiety is all in your own mind and only you can stop it.
Perhaps true but these pages are full of anxiety and angst which arises out of our being who and/or what we are.
Divorce, well if two people are truely suited soul mates that should be together, would a harmless bit of dressing up really end in divorce?
Sure, or a host of other issues. It has to do with the biology and sociology of attraction. Many/most females are not remotely attracted to their Prince Charming presenting as Princess Charming.
Bullying is only effective if the 'victim' allows it to be. If they do not give a **** about the bullying then the bullies stop as there is simply no point to it.
In the context of what our kids can deal with if it was known in the community that their daddy is a CD'er, kids can be incessant and why should our children have to go through such a thing? This assumes that the intent of the CD/TG parent is to not be out in the community. In that situation, the child has no choice but to develop some pretty thick skin.
Loss of job due to crossdressing habits would be illegal in UK. Lots of easily won compensation available so a plus if it did happen.
Laws are great but cannot protect one from being victim of some pretty creative constructive discharge.
Loss of friends. Really, you would call someone a friend who drops you because of your choice of clothes? Some friend. My friends just think it makes more interesting.
Only an issue if the CD/TG parent is out in the community.
Loss of family. What ever happened to unconditional love?
Overcoming deeply rooted beliefs and opinions can be difficult at best with zero guarantee of success.
The person who is full time has to contend with all of these things and I have met some who have lost nearly everything. Decisions such as the one posed by Kas should not be taken lightly.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
OK. I stand corrected.
But I still believe that the stigma that Kas refers to in her last post is not in reality such a big deal right here right now in the country I live in. If my child had 2 lesbian mothers or 2 gay fathers or a mum and a full time MTF crossdresser father or a dad and full time FTM crossdresser mum he would not have a consequential problem with bullying from any of his peers, period. He might even be treated as being quite cool. Maybe it is different in the US and Australia, maybe it is different in others parts of the UK but that is my reality right here. It would not have been the reality when I was a child but it is now. I just worry that the younger generation have moved on and many of us suffer because we forgot to get on the bus with them (metaphorically). Kas has even younger children and I hope and expect their generation will move on faster still. Australia can't be that different to here even if they were a bit late to the gay marriage party.
If things are not moving on where you live, I pity you, but remeber that for every step backward there are usually 2 forward.
Last edited by DaisyLawrence; 11-22-2017 at 10:16 AM.
My daughters BFF nearly outed me, and she is 27 (and was a little drunk).
Luckily 2 of my daughters quickly shut her up and changed the subject.
Kids will be kids, having said that, a few boys at the local high school wear female clothes, so life goes on.
See all my photos, read many stories of my outings and my early days at
http://rachelsauckland.blogspot.co.nz
My father is a CD, he never hid it from me. At first I couldn't care less about it. Then I hit those awkward teenage years and it started to bother me, not so much that he did it, but the fact that it was something that I was struggling with. I didn't want to be like him, so I fought the urges for the longest time and denied who I was. It wasn't until recently I decided to stop running and embrace this, I have talked to him for hours about this and for the firs time in my life I feel close to my father.
My wife and I have a 4 year old daughter and we kind of downplay the whole thing so it's not something she really thinks about. She calls my wig silly hair and has only ever questioned my wardrobe choices while putting on a suit to go to a funeral because that is outside her version of the norm. I imagine in time she will out me, but in order for me to be me I have to take the risk. I do have the benefit that I only have to worry about being outed to my wife's family since mine already know and have been around me while dressed. Luckily if I were to get outed today it would be less horrific than it would have been just 10 or 20 years ago.
I believe it's up to the parents on how they should handle it, but my personal opinion is, don't hide it from them I can imagine learning about it when they are older has potential to end really badly. I believe my folks were right not to hide it from me.
This topic has come up before and it tends to push people to one side or the other of the issue. Ultimate, it's up to you what you decide is best for you and your partner, Kas. I told my children about my dressing and discussed gender identity with them from an early age. I fall into the camp of being able to talk openly with your kids removes the stigma of the whole thing. We also discussed the fact that there are things about our family that are private, not secrets, but things that we don't share because it's really no one else's business. I don't want them thinking that my dressing or how I choose to identify are bad things, but I also don't think it's appropriate for them to share this with others, just like I don't think it's ok for them to tell people how much I make or how much a family trip costs. And.....if I get outed by my kids, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Society still holds lots of negative and judgemental perspectives around gender and identity, some of which even carry into this group. But if we're going to help make shifts in those attitudes, we have to be ok with who we are first.
There's some great advice in this thread. Some not so great advice (IMO) on here too. Take what works for you. And good luck!
When someone is raised around something, they think nothing of it... It's just normal everyday life to them. It is only when we are exposed to new things/ideas that contradict out early teachings that we have a hard time accepting them.
Hello. I walked into my three daughters lives when they were little little. I wore pantyhose and girly things back then and they have never outed me. Mom outed me when she was showing my babies old pics on the smart TV and happen to run a pic of her and I. Kids just said I was a pretty girl. Lol. Mom turned beet red. Lolllll.
Formerly CDGigi
No kids so I don’t have parenting advice, but I do know that “discression” is a difficult and complex concept especially to a child so if that’s a concern, Best not to tell her for now. I also know that teenagers are assholes and when I was one, if I had ammunition to use against my parents like “Dad’s a crossdresser”? Oh man things would have gotten ugly quick.
I tried to keep from appearing to feminine to my girls when they where real young. Till about IIRC 3-4. Now at almost 8 they know. We have raised them to be non biased about anything. So a man in a skirt doesn't faze them at all. So when I am completely dressed it is no big deal to them.
Kelsey
We figured that the earliest retained childhood memory would probably be around three years old so I stopped dressing in front of my son at that time.
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