The Masses, Not Individuals

[deebra]

As I have progressed over time and gained more confidence as a MtF crossdresser and now dress most days in a bra with forms, tucked in bikini panties, girl jeans, etc. dressing this way has become just as normal as when I use to put on male clothing. I like the fit, feel and look of women's clothes and I thoroughly enjoy wearing and presenting this way. When going out I do present male but close inspection shows all female clothes, just a male from the neck up. And the androgynous look is to blend, which I do. As I pass so many people I just have to wonder what the masses (not an individual that might spot my 2.5 inch ankle boots) think about a male dressed as such. As I've said in previous posts women whom I have interacted with seem to have no problem with it where very, very few mainly teenage girls and young women seem to have an orgasm of shock and pleasure if they clock me as a male in fem. Have the masses changed to where they just don't give care with all the different clothing, hair, piercings, etc. we see and have gotten use to so many styles where they could care less how I dress. I really love wearing female clothing and going about in public as my feminine self. So as I pass so many people in the mall and in stores I do wonder have I become just an ordinary person to them, maybe a second look to some and no more?

Another thought I have, if I am slim and am seen shopping wearing girl ankle boots, slacks or jeans and top with small breasts and I look as nice in the clothing as a GG can they be O.K. with this and not think negative???

[Beverley Sims]

I really don't know about myself dressed femme, I wear a wig and makeup, look like a woman and don't get challenged.

Get a look occasionally if I don't raise my voice enough. :-)

The masses?

Who knows, I don't.

[Krisi]

The "masses" are really a bunch of individuals. Among those individuals there will be a wide range of thoughts. Some people won't notice or care what you are wearing, some will. Those who notice and have negative thoughts are more likely to keep those thoughts to themselves than they would have fifty years ago but they still have those thoughts.

Does it matter? If you're walking through a shopping mall, a city park or sidewalk, no, it doesn't matter. It's possible, but unlikely that anyone will make a scene, laugh or call you out. On the other hand, if you were to go to a job interview or go to meet your girlfriend's parents for the first time, there could be a negative reaction. The person interviewing you for the job might decide that you might cause trouble with the public or other workers and decide not to take that chance. Your girlfriend's parents might decide they would rather not have some "weirdo" in the family.

You can wear what you want of course, but you have to live with other people and the public and you should keep this in mind when you get dressed in the morning.

[Jean 103]

I agree with Krisi

As long as you are not seen as a threat most people will not take the time to care one way or another.

If you are dressing so as not to stand out, they will not even see you.

As for interacting with people, if you are pleasant, most people will react in kind.

[Rhonda Jean]

young women seem to have an orgasm of shock and pleasure if they clock me as a male in fem.

I've never had anybody have this reaction to me.

I think that in general people are good at hiding their reactions. It'd take a lot for me to visibly react to someone's appearance, and I think most people are the same. About the only time there's a visible reaction is if they're doing it for show, either let you see their reaction or to put on an act for somebody they're with.

That being said, I do think people have become desensitized to a lot of things, appearance-wise. I think, too, that people are typically polite and respectful. I'm sure they talk about me when they get home, even though I perceived no reaction. All that goes with the territory.

[docrobbysherry]

"----young women seem to have an orgasm of shock and pleasure if they clock me as a male in fem.----"

I think it's great that u enjoy going out dressed androgynously, Deebra. However, I believe u r making false assumptions about what others think of your look. I think most folks don't notice u.

When I go out dressed in vanilla land there's nothing androgynous or "blending" about my look. I get noticed a lot! And, it's not all that "pleasurable"!

[Micki_Finn]

Kristi is right. Clocking “the masses” is just averaging individuals. Everyone is different. And it’s really hard for us to tell what people think because they could be super nice and effusive to our face then turn around and talk to their friends etc about the “weirdo” as soon as we’re out of earshot, so don’t necessarily equate poilteness with acceptance.

[Helen_Highwater]

As eluded to above I also think what you're experiencing is people just not being bothered. Like Beverly I go out fully enfemme and as I've said many times, I know I don't pass close inspection. I can however move through a crowd and not be noticed by the vast majority of the people and this is due to them simply going about their business and not scrutinizing every person around them. Those that do see me in the main I suspect either just don't care or have more important things to do than react directly.

You're experiencing the same thing but with the difference that your appearance, your presentation, is just that little bit more "Left field". Being fully enfemme allows people to easily put a label on what they see. It might not necessarily be the correct label, I suspect Gay pops into many folks thinking, but nevertheless it's not a huge taxing leap for them. Again I can only suspect but my instinct would be to say the Gay label is one that those who see you attach more readily. Dressing as you do means you don't fall into a pigeon hole as easily as a fully enfemme dresser does.

That said, My reading is that people are both curious and surprised, especially the young who aren't as worldly wise as the more mature members of society. Keep doing what you're doing but remember to stay safe.

[Teresa]

Deebra,
I've said this before but remember some people have never seen a CDers before, I wouldn't exactly say I've seen the reaction you describe , maybe that's a little wishful thinking on your part . So some are going to react some are going to give you a double take with a touch of distaste and some are going to totally ignore you.

I guess it depends what reaction you are looking for, I'm just happy with a look and a smile , that usually comes from GGs but many guys won't make eye contact . I've always been one to make good eye contact no matter what mode of dress , I felt being self employed making positive contact was beneficial for a successful business .

[deebra]

Would lie to get some opinions on my last paragraph.

[Tracii G]

I think that people see you as a guy wearing womens clothes and not a woman.
I wear all womens clothes too just as you are doing and the people I know just accept it and never comment because its my choice what I wear.
The masses don't care so don't worry about what they think because it doesn't matter.

Your last paragraph is just you doing some wishful thinking.
You can't control how others perceive you. Will they think you are a woman? Maybe if they only see you from the back.
Once you turn around they will know you are a guy and thats OK.

[Becky Blue]

I believe that most people are pretty much absorbed in their own thoughts and probably don't look at you enough to notice what you are Deebra. Most people see the most obvious markers and process subconsciously. As regards your second paragraph specifically, i think that if they figure out what you are, some will be positive some negative and many uncaring. Naturally the proportion of people thinking positively or negatively would depend a lot on where you where and who was seeing you.

[deebra]

In thread #20 miss spelled like to lie, sorry. Let me be more clear, if a man or woman looked up and saw this CD looking at clothes and was dressed attractively in women's shoes, slacks and top would they see him as just a nicely dressed guy in women's clothes and think "oh well" and return to what they were doing. Have things/time changed for acceptance this much?

[Taylor186]

Have things/time changed for acceptance this much?

Today we have a trans person working at the biggest and best grocery chain in town and a trans person working at the ULTA store. Both are young, slim, attractive and well dressed, though I easily clocked them both and I believe most others would as well. This would have never happened ten years ago in my 25k population Midwest town in a predominately red county.

A forty, fifty or sixty year old MtF CD strolling the aisles would probably be a different story.

[Emily Barton]

I've started doing exactly what you're talking about - it's still a bit early days but I'll let you know what I find. So far, being out and about in ankle boots hasn't caused much of a stir. The couple of occasions that I've also been wearing a skirt have raised a few more eyebrows I think, but it's hard to tell.

As for your shopping scenario, it shouldn't be a problem at all IMO, but obviously wherever you go there's always a risk of an inflammatory encounter. All it takes is one bloody-minded person to ruin it.

I guess the main thing to consider is at what point does a reaction become a problem for you? If you're comfortable shrugging it off, then what does it matter?

[RachelB.]

I have only had one bad experience at a fast food restaurant. Mr. high school jock kept calling me Sir. I was dressed complete with wig and make up. His coworkers apologized for him and one went to get the manager. She apologized and took him to her office for counseling. If someone does say something my advice is to ignore it and walk away. Most people don't care one way or the other. They just want to survive another day

[deebra]

Emily love your last sentence. This morning I went shopping in a large mall dressed as described in my post and walked the entire mall for 2 hours and just blended. Just as it should be.

[Krisi]

I have only had one bad experience at a fast food restaurant. Mr. high school jock kept calling me Sir. I was dressed complete with wig and make up. His coworkers apologized for him and one went to get the manager. She apologized and took him to her office for counseling. If someone does say something my advice is to ignore it and walk away. Most people don't care one way or the other. They just want to survive another day

It's unfortunate that the English language does not have a gender neutral salutation. We are taught that it's polite to address someone as "Sir" or "Ma'am" as the case may be. When we venture out in public dressed in such a way that confuses our identity, it can be awkward for a person who needs to address us. I remember well having that experience with someone in a shop doing work for me. I don't know to this day if it was a male or a female and it was difficult for me to talk to him/her without saying something that would offend him/her.

Most of the time, if someone gets your gender wrong, it's honest confusion. If your presentation is confusing, you should expect that and not get upset when they get it wrong. Once in a while, of course, it is intentional and that would be the time to do what you can to correct that person.

In the end, you are a "he" or a "she" to the world. There is no alternate or third gender.

[GretchenM]

Excellent points Krisi. We live in a bi-gender society and recognized genders tend to follow the linguistic use of gender. In multi gender societies there are words for the variations that society fully accepts. Maybe someday English will have them as well, but for now there are only two and the expectation is that a person will fit into one or the other category. That said, most people try to be polite and respectful even though in their brain they may be wildly tossing and turning things around.

If you produce a very confusing look you can expect people to be similarly confused, irrespective of what they say. Does that mean you shouldn't dress in a confusing way? Not at all, but if you do then some will express their confusion. But most will keep their confusion to themselves which tends to support a thought in us that we are acceptable in their eyes when in fact we may not be. When we interpret their politeness as being acceptance many times I suspect we are making a mistake. With no expression of which it is tolerance can easily be confused with acceptance. In that case, who is the confused one? So, from this I conclude that you should be yourself but the more you deviate from the binary concept most people have the more tolerance rather than acceptance you will experience. You have a right to look pretty much any way you want so long as it is decent, but exercising that right, like most rights, comes with both a responsibility and some consequences. Fortunately, our society is changing in this regard, but it is a long, slow process and in some respects we are helping to fuel change to produce a somewhat more representative social structure that recognizes gender is a spectrum rather than a binary.

[Rhonda Jean]

As to your last sentence...

We have a tendency to obsess over other people's reaction to us in public. From the moment we step out of the house we're gauging and analyzing everybody, which only makes us more conspicuous. It's hard to stop it, because one of the reasons we're out there is to be accepted as and treated as a woman. To experience life as a woman. How are we going to know if we're experiencing that if we don't know what everybody is thinking about us? See if this sounds familiar. You drive into a parking lot and scan the lot to see if you recognize anybody's car. You get out and immediately start scanning the crowd for familiar faces. You look down every aisle to make sure there's nobody you recognize. You pick someone who looks friendly enough and make sure they (usually she) sees you and you analyze their reaction. As you make your way among people you question (in your mind) everybody you encounter and evaluate what you think they thought of you. Partially dressed or fully dressed, it doesn't matter. This comes across as unnatural, and alters the thought process of the very people you're analyzing. The more you're out, the less you do it. It's not that you don't care. Surely we all care what people think of us. It's just that you are less obsessive about it. That comes across as more natural (normal), and peoples reaction to you is probably less judgmental (but you don't know, because you're not looking for it all the time!). Over the past several years people have become a bit desensitized to us. It is more important that we become desensitized to them. Those things probably go hand in hand.

[Nikki A.]

I don't feel comfortable doing androgynous, but there are times that I have done it just because I needed to express this part of me but not go all out due to time or mood. I also think being in mixed mode, is more difficult for the muggles to understand, in that you're sending out mixed signals as far as who you want to be.
What others think is really up to them. When I do present as Nikki, there are people who still use my male name, (not being malicious or hurtful) but they're too old to change. You have to have a bit of a thick skin and roll with the punches with some people.

[cathernkelly]

I went out day before yesterday with my wife and a gg friend to a mall area in Eastern Columbus Ohio. As we went through the different store I noticed other CDs in varying levels of fem to "they just crawled out from under a rock impressions. I watched the people round them and not a soul seemed to care. No one took notice, no one looked up. It made me happy to see that the masses were finally past their phobias or there was too tired of other weird stuff going on that CDs just didn't show up on the radar anymore. 20 years ago my friend and I were in a Target in Lexington Ky and the salesperson made my friend and wouldn't check her out. The sale girl just told my friend that she needed to leave the store. That sales girl didn't catch my transition and gladly checked me out and started to tell me how disgraceful the person was in front of me I leaned in and whispered in her ear that I too was in drag also. The look was priceless