Some people yes. Maybe not in the states but here. I gendered it for explanation. The person on the phone presumably knows who 'E' is and therefore knows their gender so would be confused by the plural. Despite being the face of a company, we in the UK seem to think answering the phone is a meanial task for the lowest paid worker only and English as a first language no longer seems to be in the job description. Drives me mad but there we are. Don't be shocked.Originally Posted by Pat
The simple answer to this is to ask what their pronouns are. They may be male bodied and prefer female pronouns, or vise-versa, or they may prefer gender neutral pronouns, like they, ze or xe. By simply asking about pronouns you avoid being intrusive, in a bodily way, and signal to them that you are sensitive enough to be concerned about their comfort. Even if they are conservative, at least they will not be offended.
I am a vessel of the goddess. Let me express my calling to a feminine life through nurturing love and relatedness.
Hi Krisi, That brings to mind the Crocodile Dundee movie and the scene in the bar. >Orchid ..o
Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~...
I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !
If at first you don't succeed, Then Skydiving isn't for you.
Be careful what you wish for, Once you ring a bell , you just can't Un-Ring it !! !!
E knows E presents an androgynous look so it should come as no surprise when people ask, just wanting to get it right in a professional setting. So ask in a tactful or more direct way. Using "they" and other neutral terms is silly, and no, not proper use of language, just a way to avoid the elephant in the room. Suck it up, ask, and the elephant goes away.
NicoleScott,
You do know some people think it is silly to call a biological man a “she” right? But out of respect for who that person is we respect them right? And call them the proper pronoun? It’s the same way with people that are non binary and wish not to be labeled as she or him. With all the struggles trans people go through, you think we would know better.
That's a tough one since we are conditioned to use gender specific pronouns automatically. Preventing an inadvertent error is going to be difficult. I would approach the situation by telling them you have never seen someone with a first name E, and ask if it is short for something. Maybe that leads to an obvious answer or conversation. If not you can say ok, E and hope as you learn about them they will divulge more.
If you are planning on doing long term business with E, you could just ask to see their Drivers License and say it's to verify their info for your billing records. Tell them you've had issues in the past. Gender is listed on the license, if you really, positively have to know their gender.
Before you can love another, you must first like yourself
I Aim To Misbehave
Labels belong on BOXES, not PEOPLE!
Roberta, if I knew a biological man identifies as a woman, I would use "she". But in this case it's not known how E identifies. Maybe non-binary, maybe binary M or F. Calling E "they" is an assumption that E identifies as non-binary. It's really a silly game in which E sends mixed signals and others are supposed to guess right. Guess wrong and offend E. We have members here who present as women but are men and don't want to be called "she". But convention is to refer to people as they present, unless we know different. How do we know? We don't, so we need to find out, tactfully and respectfully, and avoid constantly walking on eggshells.
Unless you're getting engaged, why is calling a business associate E a problem? I don't see the problem! As in:
Hello is E there?
No, E isn't.
Ok, could u have E call me when E returns?.gif "Big Roll Eyes")
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
"E" sounds masculine, among that subset of British speakers who drop their H's.
"'Ello, is 'e there?"
"No, 'e isn't."
"OK, could you 'ave 'im call me when 'e returns?"
Anyway I'm betting "E" stands for "Enigma."
"Hello, Enigma Smith speaking. How may I help you?..."
LOL 'is name is Edward Nigma = E. Nigma, AKA The Riddler
Before you can love another, you must first like yourself
I Aim To Misbehave
Labels belong on BOXES, not PEOPLE!
So you'll be doing business with E. F. Hutton?
Total silence....
"You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder
OK, one person understood my example. "They" is plural.
I can't ask for the name for my records because it is me who will be a customer of E's business, not the other way around. And this person made a point of being called "E" so it would seem pushy to ask what it stands for.
I didn't really expect any solutions by asking here, there's nothing reasonable that I hadn't thought of myself. My problem does highlight the difficulties created for other people when we try to hide our gender by dressing in an androgynous manner which many members here apparently do from time to time.
I'll just ask another customer when I get the chance but I may not get the chance before I have to deal with E again.
I don't care if "E" is male or female, I just don't want to embarrass myself by getting it wrong.
Krisi
Krisi,
I can see the point you are making, it's not a one off situation but ongoing so you are trying to be polite and not offend. If they aren't offended maybe the best solution is to politely ask their first name so if you have to Email or write to them you can address them correctly . Usually if I'm in that situation I will great them with a hand shake and tell them my first name, most people will respond in the same way .
The simplest thing get a kid to meet her/ him and the child will most likely ask. No one takes offense if a child asks a question like are you a boy or a girl. They just answer and move on.
Eeeeeeeee your in a pickle
Believe it or not , or agree with it or not, there are non binary people who prefer "they" as their pronoun. I still maintain that simply asking what pronouns E prefers you will make the problem go away.
I am a vessel of the goddess. Let me express my calling to a feminine life through nurturing love and relatedness.
Why would this be considered a "problem "?
Call this person E. or use they if necessary. Despite the people arguing the grammar of the singular they, we have to accept that language changes and evolves. It's 2018 and language is changing to be more inclusive. Isn't that a good thing?
They/Them
I love dressing as a woman.
Gee, I'm wondering how they handle this in French, among other languages. They don't have the option of a genderless "they" or "them."
I'll leave the grammar issue alone, and for that matter, the how or what to do thing too.
But the frustration of satisfying our curious natures is something on my mind. I do know the truly right answer is to let it go, but gosh darn it's hard sometimes!
I see this 20 something person at a convenience store fairly regularly and 'he' could be FtM and in transition, or 'she' could be MtF in transition or also quite possibly be non-binary and totally comfortable.
No positive tells in the hands, body shape, or voice and the name (on the name tag) is one of those new age ones that could go either way.
Whichever, this person is beautiful to look at, and the vibe (or aura, if you will) is just as lovely.......very friendly and positive and such.
While i'm curious and would love to know, I mostly just want to say......"your beautiful" and give him/her an encouraging and easy smile.
But in my mid-fifties and in a world where personal boundaries should be observed I worry about coming off wrong.
Best of luck........and for the record, in your situation I don't really see that asking (if done politely and carefully) would be that bad. It's not like walking up to a stranger in public and asking.
BINGO!!! It was a long shot, but I found the person on Facebook. Very little information but the job, company and city were listed. And Facebook said "If you know E, send her a friend request."
So thank you Ressie.
[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]
She made a point of telling me her (I know now) name was "E". And that's how her business card reads. And her email is the company and position, not the name.
[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]
I thought I answered that in my example about the phone call.
Krisi
You could always try the 'ol "I'll let you see mine if you let me see yours."
Krisi,
Judging by your replies the person concerned appears to be determined to hide certain aspects of his/her life , I'm afraid if people won't divulge certain information they are going to be offended by someone , if not by you but possibly by another customer.
Do you know of any other customers who could feel in the same situation with " E" ?
Hmmm...and yet, the Brits don't seem to have a problem with the "Royal We"...as in Queen Victoria's famous phrase "WE are not amused!", even when referring specifically to herself only.
Curious and curiouser...
Ask them how their name is spelled
Posting Permissions
