Helen I noticed that as well.
Threads like this always end up with people getting mad at each other so I will respectfully decline any further comments.
Helen I noticed that as well.
Threads like this always end up with people getting mad at each other so I will respectfully decline any further comments.
The question you pose in your thread has been kicked around several times. I agree there is a negative connotation to "transvestite." It calls for the layman to know some language skills and word derivations. "Cross dresser" gets the visual across to most people. The person wears the clothes of the opposite sex. I read the same article Cassandra read as well as others in mainstream publications.
You cannot use a single word to convey a complicated thought process. And, frankly most of us do not have a clue as to why "we do what we do." Yes, most of use are able to convey what wearing women's clothing does for us; stress relief, escape from 'manly duties,' etc.
If someone is going to entertain a serious conversation with you, then explain it with sentences and paragraphs. Don't throw one word out there. I have seen so many arguments about anything and everything because neither person has elaborated to the other what's really ticking in his or her head.
The more exact we or they try to make these terms, the less precisely they describe us. I literally don't have any idea what the appropriate term for myself is anymore. That is another of the problems I have with people telling (coming out) to someone. There is no word or page of words that even comes close to describing any of us. We can't decide even among ourselves what the proper descriptive labels are. There's no possible way to come through a discussion with someone outside the community and for them to have even a basic grasp on what it means.
Hmmmm, i'm a bit surprised and somewhat pleased. 24 replies in and I've read some fairly intuitive and interesting thoughts.
Well, except for the few 'who cares, it doesn't matter' type; because it does matter.
One thing that has always struck me as silliness personified is this acceptance of being known as what is basically a verb and especially one that has no descriptive element to define why(?).
As humans we are air breathers, water drinkers, food eaters and shelter dwellers; we are plumbers, accountants, salesmen/women, etc, etc. But in calling some one any one word, there is a known or implied reason as to why they are that label.
When I see someone post on this site that old overheard refrain....."i'm just a crossdresser"; I always give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are that moment wearing women's clothing and that at some point they are going to change back into men's clothes and stop being a crossdresser.
Never mind that as you follow their posts and get to know them, they do in fact wear wigs and make-up and practice a feminine walk and post pics trying to look as female as possible, and all those things we (the enlightened and unafraid to recognize we are in fact trans) recognize as things we do to escape the gender we born with.
I can't be trans because, I don't always dress and present in femme mode? Oh....my mistake I wasn't watching the clock and forgot to reset it when I took off the ladies garments. The trans prefix means to cross, I don't think it comes with defined guidelines about only crossing once.
And i'm sorry if our transsexual friends don't agree.
It's just clothes you know.....wink wink.
Due to many reasons I've come to live in the duality, I wear mostly female clothing but blend in, well, other than the face and nails and such; so considering myself as a crossdresser in the sense of what the cis-gendered world thinks has it's shortcomings for me.
I identify as trans because everything in my head and heart tells me I am.
I'm sorry for all this, I spoke of fearing another endless labeling debate and then I went right ahead and jumped into the fray.........i'm a baddd trans-person.
But one thing I do like about some of this discussion is that we're trying to find something better for the outside world to grasp, because like I said before, it does matter
Last edited by Cassandra Lynn; 01-29-2018 at 02:59 PM.
Barbra Anne mentioned a friend of mine, Stana's coining a new phrase "Femulator". I think it may have come from 'duplicator'. I think it is one of the better terms out there, however, when I recently had some blood work done at Planned Parenthood going there en femme I choose "Gender Fluid".
Cassandra
Thank you.
Whatever other debates my original post may have inadvertently opened up, you are right the unavoidable truth is that words do matter.
Once a thing, a group or a class has been assigned (or members of that group etc have chosen) a particular label then, so far as users of the language are concerned, the whole ideological baggage that is associated with that word becomes legitimized.
Without wishing to draw inappropriate parallels this is something that has been well understood, and employed, by propagandists for as long as there have been tribes intent on objectifying (and so de-humanising) each other. One has to look no further than Goebells' adoption of the "untermenschen" to see a particularly extreme example of that process in action.
I don't need a label to help me identify or understand myself, but the labels used by other language users may be very important in the construction of social attitudes towards the group or tribe with which i identify or of which i am a part, voluntarily or otherwise.
I hope i managed to use enough sentences and paragraphs that time.
The issue in my opinion in threads like these that mention the “L” word, is twofold. First taking all the permutations or sexual identity ( and the are many, when you take into account time as a variable - (I am attractive to CIS girls 80% of the time), then combine it with the many variations of gender identity, and from a sheer logistical standpoint it is impossible to come up with standard labels.
Compound this with many people here , that get offended when someone tries to classify a group of individuals and think that they are including them as well. Classic example, there are those here that associate themselves as all male at all time which like to wear women’s clothes, the “pure definition of a cross dresser “. For others though, this is somewhat insulting and demeaning - not intentional.
The best thing we can do in my opinion, is to stick with umbrella terms as much as feasible so that everyone has a feeling of inclusion, which I feel is so important
I vote for the umbrella term usage. It keeps me dry on rainy days or topics like this can of worms, such that on warm days the worms leave their worm holes only to be eaten by some lucky birds or squished under feet or car tires!
PS: I get that some like or do not like certain labels. However, if one looks, walks and quacks like a duck they shouldn't get sensitive when someone calls them a duck when they think of themselves as an elephant, like that one that shows up in the room every now and then.
Last edited by AllieSF; 01-29-2018 at 05:29 PM.
I dress and ACT as a woman when I go out but at home do not do the body language, wig or make up. I am happy to think of myself as a crossdresser but not trans anything, because I always identify as male. Acting is not reality. Beyond that I wonder why we need a word. We do not have a word for women who wear male clothing or have problems with pronouns for them so why can't men have the same privileges?
>sigh< You say tomato, I say cultivated hybrid fruit that has been mis-identified as a vegetable for centuries and is really good in sauce, not so good on cereal.
wait... does this mean tomatoes are transgendered?
Before you can love another, you must first like yourself
I Aim To Misbehave
Labels belong on BOXES, not PEOPLE!
There have been literally hundreds of threads on this very subject Julia so why not do a search and read those other threads it might help you.
Trying to make parallels or assumptions based on some obscure literary piece doesn't help or prove any thing.
This whole CDing/ gender thing is so broad a subject and there is no black and white answer to any of it so one is pissing into the wind trying to explain it to a non CD or trans person its just out of their realm of understanding.
Use what ever words u wish to describe yourself. And, I will do the same!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
Labels labels labels. Now there's and idea for a new discussion!
Two things:
1. Personally this is not a problem for me. I am not a crossdresser (or whatever other word of choice). I simply wear the clothes that make me feel comfortable in MY gender identity. I usually feel non-binary and dress femmininely enough to be considered androgenous whilst clearly biologically male. On other days I feel 'all woman' and dress appropriately. I never consider myself to be 'all male' so do not have to cross any boundaries in order to wear female intended clothing. If someone asks I say simply that I am in touch with my inner woman and dress appropriately to express that and that I do not therefore consider crossdresser/(insert term of choice) to be appropriate so please don't use it.
2. Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with the word transvestite? If you think crossdresser (the same word by the way) is more respected by transphobic people you are fooling yourself. In their mind you are a weirdo whatever you call yourself. Grayson Perry (probably the UK's most famous transvestite) readily and enthusiastically describes himself as a transvestite as does Eddie Izzard (probably the UK's second most famous transvestite). It's a word, it means what it does, over time crossdresser will become just as negative a term with many if not already and then you will want another one and the cycle begins again. Get over it. Stop labeling yourselves. You are simply another person who, if anyone asks, considers themselves gender non-binary and dresses appropriately (unless, of course, you are a fetish crossdresser in which case you need to cross a gender boundary in order to fulfil the fetish).
Daisy.
Last edited by DaisyLawrence; 01-30-2018 at 04:00 AM.
I have completely given up on labels as I don't think there will ever be a 'standard definition'. I do what I do and enjoy it, end of...
Here today, gone tomorrow....
Huh? Stop labeling yourself but then call yourself gender non-binary? Isn't gender non-binary as much of a label as crossdresser?Originally Posted by DaisyLawrence
It seems that even label-haters can't avoid using them.
No Nicole gender non-binary is a statement of fact not a label, just like male is statement of fact for a cis gender male.
See here we go just like I said in post 26.
I have issues with people getting hung up on terminology. It all changes with time. Terms that mentioned nothing negative all of a sudden are forbidden. Years ago retarded was fine, now it is a terrible term to use. It mentioned nothing negative but somewhere it turned bad, not PC enough. So let's change the name to something more PC so nobody gets thier feelings hurt even though the condition/situation whatever has not changed.
What's in a name said Shakespear? A rose by any other name would smell the same.
Daisy, if gender non-binary is a statement of fact and not a label, then so is crossdresser, a person who, in fact, wears clothing normally worn by the opposite sex.
This is a silly game of: the words I use are not labels, but the words you use are. We all use labels - it's unavoidable when communicating.
For lunch I had two all beef patties special sauce lettuce cheese pickles onions on a sesame seed bun. I didn't want to offend by using a label.
I love this!
No matter what labels you use someone won't like it since nothing is clear cut but on multiple spectrums.
Almost all words are labels. They are convenient place holders so that we all know what we are trying to communicate to others.
For example: Tree. While we all may form a mental image of a different type, we pretty much can understand when someone points to the object labeled 'tree'.
Again, the same with the labels identified as 'boat', 'car', 'cat', 'dog', etc.
Cis-anything is a label we use to identify a person who is both physically and mentally in synch with their gender. Likewise, Trans-anything is used to identify a person who is not in synch. And so, Crossdresser identifies those who wear the clothes of the opposite gender.
Before you can love another, you must first like yourself
I Aim To Misbehave
Labels belong on BOXES, not PEOPLE!
Smart reply - because, like the lady in question, teeming millions don't understand those terms either and it's become trendy for university students who insist on the use of proliferating pronouns to attack professors who either don't understand them or consider it peurile to pander to them.
One problem is that, given that the wider world tends not to understand new and explicit terms for various gender assignments/choices/assertions, not understanding leads to resentment which often leads to anger - thus creating a very large cohort of people who just don't want to know about the whole complex world of gender (to which Robertacd has alluded e.g.), and/or are actively hostile to it. That's why I find Tracii's comment insightful and tres au point
[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]
with us Canadians somewhere betwixt
What does "semiotics" mean?
I get that, not understanding any of it. I've been there, too.
But you can still choose to be a kind human being while you learn.
They/Them
I love dressing as a woman.
Posting Permissions
