Is "hetero" cross-dressing more taboo than "gay" or "trans"?

[JennB]

Just a thought I have been feeling lately, that it seems that it is almost more taboo in today's society to be a heterosexual crossdresser than it is to be a homosexual crossdresser, trans, etc. I feel as if it is more of a stigma for a straight guy to come out and say that they crossdress (for whatever their personal reasons or desires) than if someone comes out as a homosexual crossdresser, or as an individual in any stage of transition.

It seems media has embraced some of these distinctions but not the heterosexual crossdresser. TV shows include characters, major news stories are done, yet in many senses it seems someone who is going to a lesser extreme from societal norms is looked up on as "weirder".

I have to think from a statistical standpoint, there are numerically more heterosexual crossdressers that do not have a desire to continue beyond that position to either same sex experiences or transitions to a sex other than their anatomically born sex. Yet, that, likely larger number, seems to be lesser represented in media support.

I can't help but wonder why there hasn't been a TV show with a main character male who when he is sitting around at home after his day of work or on a weekend when he doesn't have to leave the house don's "women's" clothing and has a happy marriage with a knowing wife. Is it just too boring for the media to include? Or is there a bias that is unbalanced?

Love to hear other's thoughts on the topic....

[Jamie Lynn]

Crossdressing while confirmed hetero begs the question of "Why would you EVER do that knowing you'd be ridiculed or worse?" No matter what you're explanation might be, I believe most people just won't get it. Crossdressing while confirmed gay or trans at least gives a possible and perhaps logical explanation. In their minds there is already something going on in your mind that that links the two activities.

My opinion only.

[ClosetED]

The media certainly has focused on transsexuals much more and they are more outspoken. I do not recall any homosexual crossdressers other then drag queens in the media. The statistics show there are 5 times more CDers than TS, but we like to hide in the closet. The shows where men wore women clothing like Bosum Buddies for need rather than enjoyment or comedic elements are not what we are about. Society still feel taboo about men choosing to dress feminine and until more do it openly, we still hide. There are a few brave souls who do lead the way. A few on this site do go to work in skirts and heels and are not trying to present fully as women. We owe them a lot for trying to change society.
Hugs, Ellen

[Pat]

I can't help but wonder why there hasn't been a TV show with a main character male who when he is sitting around at home after his day of work or on a weekend when he doesn't have to leave the house don's "women's" clothing and has a happy marriage with a knowing wife.

Because nobody's written a compelling script for one. Feel free to be the one who does it.

I suspect the reason why the stereotype of non-hetero crossdresser is more common is because to cis people it fits into their already inaccurate thoughts about trans folks. Remember that most of what the world knows about trans folks is sourced from cis folks either "cis-splaining" us or just plain making stuff up.

There aren't a lot of studies about sexual orientation within the crossdresser community and those that exist are pretty flawed. The result that seems to come out, though, is that the distribution of hetero, bi and gay is pretty consistent with the general population.

[Mickitv]

Crossdressing is still taboo for men and will be for quite sometime. Since I am well over the age of reason, I remember the sad portrayal of crossdressers' on TV as Milton Berle. It is a shame and I think it will change but it will take time and patience.

[Pat]

Since I am well over the age of reason, I remember the sad portrayal of crossdressers' on TV as Milton Berle.

Urrrrm... You need to be fair. Milton Berle, Benny Hill, etc. weren't really portraying crossdressers. They were crossdressing to portray women. Usually in a disturbing, degrading, dismissive or other d-word-that-I've-missed way. Reprehensible for lots of reasons, but not for making fun of crossdressers. Not denying there are bad portrayals of crossdressers out there...

[Aunt Kelly]

I think Pat is on the right track, but I'd put it a slightly different way. More and more, society is coming to understand the "born this way" thing. Being gay or trans has been normalized in the media, a huge cultural influence. But the heterosexual crossdresser has not been so exposed. It's not surprising then, that we are still viewed with more shock and suspicion.
We don't fit neatly into that same box. Another part of the reason for that is that our group has not been well studied. In a way, that's not surprising. Looking at the variety of different "types" of crossdressers on this forum and tell me how you would approach such a study. "Herding cats" comes quickly to mind.

[Teresa]

Jenn,
We shouldn't rely on the media, to judge the rights and wrongs of CDing compared with being gay or trans , they almost always give the wrong message and often mislead the general public. Besides why should it really matter , does it really help the individual to come to terms with it ? The only way you can judge the taboo level is get out in public and judge for yourself, I haven't found it to be a taboo subject, you have to remember we are still a minority group and although many people are aware of CDers they don't often meet up with them, when they do we have to be prepared to be open and informative with them if we are to make further head way with our acceptance level .

In my opinion closet CDers will never an receive an open acceptance , on the whole to the public they are a secretive group who possibly wear their wives/partners clothes possibly for sexual reasons , people don't want to know what people do in private and the media is hardly likely to feature a CDer masturbating on screen ! I feel now the term just a CDer is that image most people pick up . If you say you are TG then they know there is much more going on , OK some do lnk CDing with being gay but that's mostly the media misleading the public again.

[Lana Mae]

Look at it this way: There are almost 29000 members on this forum but less than 4000 are active! Those who are closeted are not going to say well yes I am a heterosexual crossdresser! They won't even admit to crossdressing! There can be no research because there is no info to obtain when the numbers can not even be counted! I feel for the heterosexual crossdresser who is married and has kids! They don't want to lose the wife or the kids or the job or the respectablity they have gained! And it won't go away! I feel for all of you and have no idea what the solution is! Hugs Lana Mae

[Teresa]

Lana,
As you are finding it's honesty with yourself and accepting what your needs are , many of the fears are groundless .

[Jenny22]

Are there any GOOD, factual, non-prejudiced polls about CDing?

[Allisa]

The whole subject of CDing is taboo whether it be hetero or homophobic, it is the way it has been from a time forgotten. Yes the media plays a big part i.e. the person that robbed the store was a man wearing a dress and wig, when the child was almost snatched from school by a man dressed as a woman. These are the headlines not the one where a child was saved from a burning building by a brave passerby who happened to be dressed as a woman. Why is it you never see a beer commercial with a CDer sitting at the bar watching a football game on tv? We as a whole are not seen in public so no need to vie for our money in a free market setting and run the risk of losing possible clients and funds by being associated with such undesirables. Sorry got off subject there but this is one subject that burns me like a 2 1/2 foot flame(I'm short). I do go out and about with my life dressed and not for the sole purpose of being seen but if I help to change minds along the way I am happy to stand and be counted. There's no money in it for corporate America to care, but when they realize the potential, look out we'll be hunted down for our wallets. Sorry again.

[Teresa]

Jenny ,
Only if you are allowed to take part in a totally secret vote.

Again it's an interesting point that the 2021 UK national census will be asking some very relevant questions on the LGBT subject , it will pose some interesting situations in some households, do you lie to your wife/partner or the government bearing in mind to give a false statement is a criminal offence .

[Marie-Jo]

@ JennB
The statistical views of the transgender area is poor in general. Look at Bevans writings like "Being Transgender - What you should know" 2017, a very thorough descriptive book. Google "Dana Bevans" if you look for more writings and links.
Short version - most research is made on the angle of disease, transsexuals in treatment. As mentioned already, it is not easy to get a study done over CDs who are hiding. Getting money for it is almost as hard as to get in contact.

[kimdl93]

I'm sorry to say that most mass media do not lead public opinion, (although as we are learning certain outlets seek to deliberately mislead). For the most part, media reflects like a mirror.

If society bear a strong prejudice, images in news, cartoons, Facebook pages, movies and other programming will tend towards repeating the message. A few have challenged stereotypes over the years, but usually society changes (usually at great cost in terms of human sacrifice ) and the representations begin to catch up.

Whats the old saying? If you want to change the world, change yourself?

[docrobbysherry]

Jenn, when u say, "Media", do u mean TV and/movies? Because these r entertainment platforms. They don't care to be accurate, informational sources. And, haven't been since sat least the 1970's. Which is when I stopped watching TV news.

Lastly, on gay vs. straight. Which "news" r u more likely to hear on the media?
"Dog bites man". Or, "Man bites dog"?

[jacques]

hello,
sadly - men crossdressing is still taboo and still a source of comedy for television.
which begs an answer to the question "why can't TV accept TVs?"
luv J

[sometimes_miss]

Look at it this way: There are almost 29000 members on this forum but less than 4000 are active! Those who are closeted are not going to say well yes I am a heterosexual crossdresser! They won't even admit to crossdressing! There can be no research because there is no info to obtain when the numbers can not even be counted! I feel for the heterosexual crossdresser who is married and has kids! They don't want to lose the wife or the kids or the job or the respectablity they have gained! And it won't go away! I feel for all of you and have no idea what the solution is! Hugs Lana Mae

Like the number of us who are closeted, we don't actually know how many are still here. Many still lurk, simply because they don't want to get into arguments. Most of the time I'm here reading, I'm not signed on.

Lana, As you are finding it's honesty with yourself and accepting what your nees are , many of the fears are groundless .

And many others are grounded in reality. The world is not a safe place for crossdressers. As we've seen in the past couple of years, the percentage of the population who hate us without even ever knowing us is pretty high, and, getting more vocal about it, as can be seen in the political arena. They think we're mentally ill.

Are there any GOOD, factual, non-prejudiced polls about CDing?

It's getting even harder to tell, because the organizations that DO present their so called research aren't named for what they actually are. For example, any which has the words liberty, freedom, or patriot in it is probably NOT associated with those things.

hello, sadly - men crossdressing is still taboo and still a source of comedy for television, which begs an answer to the question "why can't TV accept TVs?" luv J

Because that doesn't get viewers. TV is entertainment, even the news has become primarily entertainment; if it bleeds, it leads, and all the presenters (I won't call them reporters, because they don't report anymore, they tell a prefabricated story) seem to just love to stick a microphone and camera into the face of anyone who is crying or hysterical, because it gets an audience.

Crossdressers who declare to be heterosexual are more threatening to the straight world, because it brings up the possibility that THEY, TOO might not be completely straight, and that scares them because they fear their social circle might ostracize THEM as well if they dare show any link to femininity. The conservatives still tend to treat us as a pariah, folks to be dismissed as silly fools, all in an effort to make themselves feel like they are better than we are, in order to justify legislation and behavior which maintains the old, white, straight, male political way of life; females are not welcome, nor are any males who might display feminine attributes in any way, shape or form. We saw this last year when the white house's council on the healthcare of women and girls was just another group of old, white men. What's more frightening? That much of the population of our country supports this concept.
For women, too, still support the idea that feminine things are inferior to masculine. Women, too, still use feminine adjectives and nouns to insult men. I continue to wonder why so many women don't understand that when they do that, they're essentially insulting themselves. Every single time a woman tells a guy to 'man up', she's basically saying, 'I'm worthless, only masculine men are worthy of respect'.

[Beverley Sims]

Everybody talks about the media.

I answer the question this way.

Yes. from my own perception you appear to need a "valid"reason for cross dressing.

Gays, and Trans people fit under some umbrella as tere are underlying reasons and people are tolerant of those that are gay.

A man who likes to wear women's clothes is just plain weird.

[Tracii G]

Another case of trying to understand the why of it all and coming up with no clear answer.
TV is a lost cause because its all fake and the characters are fictional so they don't have to follow normal guide lines.
Don't read too much into the "why and how come" because there is no one solid answer for any of it.

[Robertacd]

Crossdressing is still taboo for men and will be for quite sometime. Since I am well over the age of reason, I remember the sad portrayal of crossdressers' on TV as Milton Berle. It is a shame and I think it will change but it will take time and patience.

Actually there was one decent portrayal on television I can recall. On the old Drew Carry Show, Drew's brother was a hetero-crossdresser, granted it was used for comedic purposes, but over all they shed a good light on it.

My favorite part was when the brother was explaining crossdressing to one of Drews friends..;

Friend: Why do you do it
Brother: Why do you do things like ride a bike or go fishing?
Friend: Well I do those things because they are fun.
Brother: Now imagine how much fun doing those things would be while wearing women's underwear.
Friend: Thinks for a bit then "light bulb in his head comes on" and he smiles and says "Oh... yeah"

Then the story line had the crossdressing brother fall in love with Mimi (the female antagonist) and she of course "fixed him" so he did not need it anymore.

[foxy bartender]

So, here’s my two cents. I think that the majority of people are kinda inflamed by the term Crossdresser. I think that it’s become synonymous with a sexual fetish, and that’s why it’s less well received by people in general. And at the same time, y’all are right about increasing acceptance of trans people, as well as the understanding that people can be and are non binary, which is how I identify, because it’s honestly so inclusive. I think, for the most part, we all fall somewhere on this wide spectrum. You can indentify as nb and not ever want to transition or give up your boy side. You can dress only at home, be a miad or go out and pass all you want.
So many of us feel like we have to keep this side of ourselves secret, and I want to see that change. I just want all my friends here to feel comfortable and happy with who they are.

[CONSUELO]

There are so many aspects to this issue that it is hard to know where to begin.

1. We should separate news media from dramatic representations whether on film, TV or elsewhere. In drama representations, the writer is looking for dramatic effect that not only fits the story line but "juices" it up. So in Silence of the Lambs the writer created a character with a blend of psychoses including dressing as a woman just for the shock value. Such a character would be hard to find and if it did exist would form some infinitesimal fraction of the population. Before we get overexcited about this think of the many many other mischaracterizations that film writers produce. You would never want to teach history using Hollywood movies as they all take dramatic license always.
Why would someone write a show about a cross dresser who comes home every night, changes into women's clothing and sits down to dinner with his wife and chats about the banal happenings of the day? If they did would you be watching it beyond the first five minutes? Where is the drama that will keep you glued to the screen? So, the writer invents a dramatic twist that takes you beyond that quiet domestic scene of cross dresser and spouse. Bingo -- unfair to us cross dressers, we are not like that etc. etc..

2. There are some serious representations of heterosexual cross dressers. A recent one was made in the UK and followed several cross dressers who were happily married and accepted by their spouses and families. It was a very straightforward representation. Perhaps someone here will remember it. I'm sure there are more.

3. All news tends toward the dramatic. A plane crashes and 20 people die. The coverage is intense. Questions are asked. The airline is questioned as to why certain things were done or not done. Meanwhile on the highways just that day a greater number are killed in vehicle crashes; one there, two here, plus many more are seriously injured or even maimed. Occasionally a church bus will crash and perhaps a dozen people are killed. The coverage is intense. Was the driver qualified, did they try to drive too far without sleep etc. etc.? Casual conclusion-- Flying is dangerous and avoid church buses. Yet then we all happily get into our cars and drive in heavy and fast traffic. So the bank robber chooses to wear wig and a dress. This is newsworthy in that it will attract peoples' attention and help sell papers or raises TV viewership.

4 . Gays and TG people made the decision long ago to get into the face of the public through annual parades etc. etc. and to talk openly of rights and acceptance. Where are the heterosexual cross dressers in this? Have you seen a LGBT parade in which a group of heterosexual cross dressers participates each with a partner on their arm? No, the evidence is clear on this site. Most keep it very quiet behind closed doors and drawn curtains. Many are in the closet and have been there for decades.

5. A Dutch doctor once made a wise remark to me. She was describing her work and pointed out that she could not be relied upon to tell what is NORMAL in society as just about all of the people she sees are ill. So she does not see a cross section of society, just a cross section of ill people. Likewise many academic studies of cross dressing are probably biased toward those who seek professional help. As it has been pointed out many times, most cross dressers are probably quiet productive members of society who just like to stay out of the limelight.

6. Just remember how ignorant the general population was of sexual behavior before the studies of Masters and Johnson. Who knew so many people masturbated or were homosexual? etc. etc. Their study is incomplete and did not survey the entire population but it was much much better than the biased information provided by the news coverage or the spotty information available to the few psychologists with limited patient populations.

Finally, how do we expect the world to understand us if we prefer to stay hidden and therefore allow perceptions of cross dressing to be set by bank robbers who disguise themselves as women or a cross dresser who is plagued by some other psychosis and gets into trouble with the law and so on, and so on?

[LilSissyStevie]

Milton Berle and Flip Wilson were funny because men dressed as women was unusual and unexpected. By the same token, Lucy and Ethel pretending to be men and wearing fake mustaches on some caper was also funny. Still is for those of us that don't take ourselves so seriously.

[CONSUELO]

Indeed, over the years several comedians have dressed in drag for the sake of humor and made fun of certain so-called female characteristics while doing so. I would argue that those characterizations have done nothing to help the acceptance of cross dressing. If anything it has pushed us back further into the closet.

In contrast gay lifestyles have often been portrayed sympathetically and honestly in a number of films and television productions. There was even a movie in which Tom Hanks portrayed a gay man suffering from AIDS (cannot remember the name of it) and it received all sorts of accolades.