Is there anyone else like me?

[elizabethamy]

I had no clue that I might be trans until I was 54. At first I thought it was a crack-up, response to getting fired, etc. Did some therapy, wrote a couple of books worth of stuff about myself on this site (sorry for all who had to read it), then decided to "be a man" and treat it as a delusion; moved across the country with intolerant of trans wife and kid. Six years later, I know it's never going to leave me alone. I'm back in therapy about it, back reading about it, thinking of hormones, etc. All that. Lots of stories are out there about late transitions, but late self-awareness that it's there at all: anyone else like me?

Perhaps I have a joint Ph.D. in obliviousness and repression, but if I have any company, would love to chat...

[AllieSF]

I am one. Discovered step one at age 60! Since then, it has been one step at a time, which continues to be my philosophy. Interestingly, I haven't found a stopping point and keep taking more steps!

[Pat]

Elizabeth - It's not a common story but it happens. Often as you work with your therapist and start looking back through your life you'll find events that you ignored or suppressed that point to this outcome. In the end it doesn't matter as long as you're sure you're in the right place now.

[Rachael Leigh]

Elizabeth, not real common but it took me a long time to come to terms with my gender identity.
I’ve been through a lot of soul searching this past year and was just about to begin hormones but realized it was not what I
needed. I now am understanding I’m much more gender fluid and lean towards the feminine side.
So being in counseling can be a big help but you have to be real and understand the effects of those around you too

[2BArianwen]

Hi Elizabeth. I have a similar story - I'm 55 but only came to a place of self-acceptance within the past 2 years. You're not alone.

[Tommie.]

At 63 in Nov 2015 I finally came out to my wife. I had this conversation with Rachael the other day too.... a difference was I had desires early in my life as suggested above and recognized it as a teenager. But when I came out the cost has been high.... 43 year marriage lost, my family shunning me for the most part, my home sold off, my retirement and assets split, no longer able to work in my field, great sadness and loss at this point, and so on. What has been gained... I do love being me... I'm happier, at peace, enjoy being loved and loving, smiling, trying to build joy, a new future and me. I tried to go back three times but could not... it's been done but I couldn't... I couldn't suppress who I am any more. You are certainly not alone. We late bloomers are quite a substantial number and a lot has to do with what was available to us like just knowing how to transition much less dysphoria pushing us. I had the experience Pat describes too where you begin to look back and see all these little things you did along the way that I had forgotten. To this point counselling, HRT, an orchie, and now looking at FFS and full transition this year, I will become the woman whom I've longed to be. But consider carefully... this will affect the very core of your existence all the way from physically to religiously... and the older we are the more at stake we have. A parting hope... listen to your heart, your counselor and to Him. May Peace be your guide.

[Ceera]

I was about 56 when I realized what was going on in my head. So no, you're not at all alone.

I lived in denial of my femme side for most of my life, for fear of how parents and later my wife would react even to me being possibly bisexual. Knew in high school I was potentially Bi, but shut that down hard and tried my best to live a straight and cisgender life, with a wife and daughter.

My wife knew I felt I was bi, but we had agreed I would be strictly monogamous and mate only with her, so it was somewhat academic. I'd admit to her sometimes that a particular male seemed attractive to me (such as Kevin Costner in 'Dances with Wolves'), but I never explored my feelings in that direction.

Over the years I did find myself playing female characters somewhat more often than males in games where I could choose a gender. I laughed that off with comments like, "Well, if I have to look at my avatar's ass while I play, it may as well be a cute ass." But I also wrote fiction stories that increasingly had bisexual or even transgender characters in them...

Between mid 2012 and January 2014, I lost both my parents and then my wife - all deceased. At 56, I felt I no longer had anyone I was 'beholden to' for my actions, and I started to explore how I really felt. Within 6 months I was out socializing in public as a woman, and loving every second of it! By mid 2015 I was fairly certain that I fit the definition of 'transgender', though I was not sure if I would, at my age, ever transition fully to female. Perhaps 'gender fluid' fits me better, since I can be happy in either role. But as time has gone by, I am finding myself choosing to be female for 95% or so of my social activities, and am more and more seriously considering at least HRT and maybe breast augmentation, and getting my ID legally switched to female.

[pamela7]

yes, you are in good company. many of us are late-realisers, later-transitioners. it's down to how we hide and suppress the truth even to ourselves. chat away

xxx

[nikinylons]

I have been a CD all of my life, but it wasn't until 15 years ago when i met my wife that I finally had a life partner who accepted and mentored me. Before that, it was just pantyhose, lingerie, dress, and lipstick and purely sexual. I came out to my wife on our second date with my pantyhose fetish. To my surprise, she had one too and was open to the rest of what I had to say. I said, I have no idea what this is supposed to look like, but I do not want to look like a man in a dress. She made me up, I ordered heels, wig, forms, and other things and she began coaching me. Oh it was so wonderful. Now, the thing that made it work is that I never lost my male persona, it just got softer and I embraced my natural fem side keeping her the center of my world. Now, years later, I am fortunate enough to have a home office and dress accordingly each day. Sometimes I fully make up but most of the time I don't. We have been out in other cities a few times years ago and I'm over that now. Staying at home with someone who looks past the pretty clothes and has serious biz convos with me is perfect. It's a way of life. I don't take it away from the house because I don't need that reckless validation, and yes that is reckless. I respect her wishes and our boundaries and am happy as can be. From what I see in this forum and girls who didn't have the guts to tell their SO's early on, is that you are looking for validation, no matter how you can get it. Whether it be from this forum, girls you chat with, or sneak off to see, you need validation. My advice, man up and explain it to your SO in a way that edifies her and all things fem. Assure her that you aren't gay, and you are still the same guy she married underneath all of the silk and satin. We are who we are. Hiding it and sneaking around is counter productive. If she doesn't like it then you have more explaining to do. Ask for her coaching and help. Lastly, find a garment like we did, pantyhose, as a common denominator and grow from there. If this is truly what you want and she is dead set against it, get out, and find your own way because you will just make her and you miserable. Thinking hormones and SRS? Get out of the pink fog, save yourself and family the pain and expense, and be happyIt's overrated. Good luck!

[DaisyLawrence]

Yes you are not alone, however, Nikinnylons makes some very valid points. There is much to be gained but also much can be lost (see post by Tommie). I think many members here use this forum for self-validation of their own thoughts as they can't find it elsewhere. I see many that are clearly deluded but they get validation here none the less. It makes me wonder if the validaters are being genuine or, like much of the human race, love nothing better to lift people up so they can watch them fall. I trust you are considering full transition or you wouldn't have posted in the transexual forum so all I would say is, the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Transition I believe should only be a last resort when when it is no longer optional. As Jack Nicholson once said, maybe this is as good as it gets.

[pamela7]

there's the thing Daisy, transition is not the last resort for a woman in a man's body - staying "male" to be alive or committing suicide would be last resorts.

[Nikki.]

Niki, there most assuredly a wide gulf between where you’re at and the majority of posters in this section. To project your feelings and experiences onto other folks is misguided at best, regardless of intent and past experience with a personal friend.

[Pat]

Niki -- I think all you're doing is showing there's a wide diversity of people in the transgender community and that you don't experience what others do. But it's important that in this community we believe each other's experience. You don't reach a level of dysphoria that your friend experiences. Why not believe her about what she needs to do rather than dismiss her as wrong? Why presume that your answer is everybody's answer?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Niki...bluntly stated you have no idea what you are talking about

Your experience is what it is..its not comparable to what most of the people here go through...

we are not "mentored" by our lovers, we are not pantyhose fetishists, and to call us reckless is offensive and ignorant.

You are a man in a dress that likes to feel pantyhose and lace on his skin.
and you are a miserable troll to be ignored in any place where trans people are trying to make progress in their lives..

[docrobbysherry]

Elizabeth, u haven't posted enuff about yourself for us to know if we're like u. I wonder if you're like me?

I began dressing out of the blue in my 50's. I dealt with it alone, in a complete vacuum. I fantasized about getting real breasts and vagina. I thot constantly of becoming a woman. I thot I had turned gay because of thots of being with a man! Since I was just separated, I had much alone time to think, experiment, and dress. Then, after 10 years of working thru all that, I came out on line here!

It took a couple of years before I began going out and meeting other T's. Something I now do regularly. I've since discovered I'm simply a CD who wants to appear to be a pretty woman and all desires of becoming a female have vanished!

So, altho it's not likely, I repeat my question: R u like me?

[Rianna Humble]

Some members seem not to care where they are posting.

Whilst it is true that every member has the right to post in the Transsexual Forum provided that it is Transsexual specific, this is not a licence to insult the TS members nor to tell us that we are deluded because you are a man therefore those who aren't need to "man up".

Equally, if you do not identify as Transsexual please do not disrupt a serious thread by asking the poster if she is like you.

Come on folks! I don't want to have to resort to wide scale moderation neither do I want to have to close this thread prematurely.

If you want to post in here, be civil towards and respectful of others. If you can't do that, don't post.

Rianna Humble
Moderatrix

[elizabethamy]

Thanks, Rianna, and thanks everyone else for your thoughts. I have tried mightily in recent years to convert what I seemed to know intuitively was my trans-ness into a fetish or a fantasy. It would be so much easier to be a man in a dress than a 60-something contemplating blowing up everything I know. I am not in a pink fog, I know what that feels like and was in it for a brief time seven or eight years ago. Have been away from dressing and writing on this site and others to know that this thing I have is insistent and will not let go. Am I a woman in a man's body? Do I need to have SRS? I don't know. But I do know that I have never -- since my self-discovery at 54 -- felt like a CD, cared about clothes and shoes and taking selfies and such like a CD. The pain is inside. Dressing helps give me comfort but it is only marginally sexual.

I have looked back and "connected the dots," have seen both how I didn't get it until late, and also how it was there all the time. But I also know enough about literature and history to be aware that connecting dots is very selective and really doesn't prove anything. I could connect different dots and make a good argument that I'm a man. But so could most of us. I do know what the dots likely mean in my case, especially a couple of pieces of what look a lot like TG fiction that I wrote 30 years before I had any idea i might be Trans. That was truly the unconscious talking!

Since I first discovered this about myself, I have wrestled with it every way I can. I joke that I have a Ph.D. in obliviousness and repression; I have also read enough books and journal articles to earn a Ph.D. in Transgender Studies, if I hadn't done it all in secret. I have been to therapy literally hundreds of times and nothing -- brilliant talk, exercises, readings, drama, medication -- moves the needle on my depression. My life circumstances: job, kids, home, finances -- are fine. Nothing in there suggests depression.

In the past few days, just from the realization that I know I can no longer ignore my femaleness, I have felt happier than at any time in several years. The transsexual forum on this site has been a place where I've lurked and written since my first discovery. For some reason, I knew immediately to go right by the CD stuff and into where the hard issues were being contemplated and discussed. I've learned so much from so many people here, and I hope that some of the nearly 600 posts I wrote back in the day were helpful to others as well as me. (If you are in Safe Haven, which I no longer am, an unbelievably long and probably wildly self-indulgent journal buried there tells more of my story than even I want to know any more.)

In earning this secret doctorate in transgender readings, I have never come across an article yet that delves in any way scientifically or psychologically into the phenomenon of the few of us who had no clue until mid- or late-life. What they call "late onset" means after puberty, but as late a realization as mine is so far as I know unstudied. I'm glad there are more than just me on here and presumably scattered all across the world.

Today I'm thankful to those who came forward to help me know that as long as I can come here, I'm never truly alone, no matter what I look like or how isolated i feel in daily life. thank you! now, what to do??

elizabethamy

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docrobbysherry,

I don't know. I'll have to do a fair bit of experimenting to find out.

e.a.

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I didn't mean to sound rude and abrupt...

Just trying to answer everyone all at once. I am anxious to get on with the task of finding out what I need to know about myself, or more fairly, confirming what i'm 95% sure of, and then figuring out what to do about it. I'm really interested in the stories of others -- how you coped with the closet, how you became aware, what you think about connecting the dots of your previously unknown trans past, how you managed to overcome the fear and loneliness, all of that and then some. feel free to pm me if you don't want to chat in the public forum. Thanks, everyone, and especially our brave and unpaid moderator, Rianna!

[Dorit]

My story is not late onset, but late acceptance. Fifty years ago after a psychotic collapse and serious self harming, I told the psychiatrist that I wanted to be a woman and that I hated my genitals. Zero knowledge and zero understanding back then, he basically told me to man it up and besides being on top and thrusting was a pleasure. (He really said that!) So I took the path of repression, shame, and guilt for my thoughts and occasional cross-dressing. Being in a condemning religious community did not help either.

The age of the internet began to change everything for me, and I saw a very different way to relate to my life. Last summer I started therapy again after a fifty year break. After a few months, the therapist recommended HRT, and I was accepted at a hospital endocrinology clinic as their oldest transgender patient in November. This new path of therapy, HRT, and a very different religious approach has given me my life back. I cannot say I had a plan, I just followed the advice of the experts and my heart, which has drawn me deeper into the satisfaction and awe that I could experience such a personal transformation in the last chapter of my life. Just like I had no plan for HRT, I have no plan for SRS.

[nikinylons]

Whoa, I didn't mean to be the authority here ladies. We are all in our own situations with different circumstances. My story is my situation and apparently it didn't fit the thread. Sorry if I came across wrong. Best of luck to you dear

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Oops, I am way out of line and stand corrected. I just noticed that this is not the CD forum. My bad ladies and you had every right to call me out. I am very sorry. Please accept my apologies. Best of luck.

[Teresa]

I do feel it's wrong to call members for being deluded and only being here for validation . This is a help forum to do exactly that , we may be deluded because we just don't know what is going on inside our heads and in those circumstances we do need somewhere to turn to understand what we do and justify it , validation is important to see our way forward , otherwise we can go round in demented, destructive circles .

As Pamela comments the outcome can be that serious .

[KellyJameson]

When you use the phrase "Be a man" you are talking about identity. To "Be a man" is masculine identity as all things that "Being a man" means for you. It is a shared identity among men but also different among individual men and across cultures.

Masculine identity is fragile at best because it is abstract and based on behavior-action-performance and the formation of masculine identity is something men give great value to (it must be earned and proven). To disrespect a man is to attack his masculinity (identity) . Women have their identity created for them by being born women. Their identity is concrete and less abstract because it is tied to their bodies. Women escape their bodies to escape the identity imposed on them because of their bodies. Women do not use the phrase "Woman up" yet do think a great deal about being "Strong women"

A stress induced crack up at 54 challenged your beliefs about yourself.

Many MtF trans people have forced down their female identity by "Manning up" until the burden of doing so becomes to much and they "Snap"

The question you may wish to ask yourself is how genuine is your masculine identity. Has it always felt false because there is another identity underneath that you have buried? Have you been living a lie?

The problem with answering this is masculine identity is already built on shakey ground and has a falseness inherent in its structure. Most if not all men are living a lie not because they are hiding a female identity but simply because they built a false identity that is inherent in all masculine forms of identity

The numbers of MtF far exceed the numbers of FtM. In my opinion this comes out of the falseness of the male life (identity) that was created by rejecting their true selves to build a false one they present to the world. Men build their identity by what they do and how they act. This makes them vulnerable to identity crisis.

This is why it is common to "experience" a man when meeting a transsexual woman. Many who transition are in fact men, not women. Probably the majority.

A transsexual woman never experiences a masculine identity crisis because she was never a man so never built a masculine identity. She could and does self alienate by trying to kill the female identity within her. This is a exorcism done to kill what exists. Not a identity crisis caused by the death of something that never really existed. The motive to "Man up" is different between a transsexual woman and a man.

One attempts to kill female identity and the other attempts to reject genuine self as person to fabricate self as gender. It may look the same but is a very different internal struggle. Both are rejecting but for very different motives and reasons.

When you understand the difference you will have the answer to whether you are a woman who has lived a life trying to kill herself "repress as identity" (something that is but must never be) or a man who has not lived honestly as the man you were meant to be (A man but not the kind of man other men are "comparative ")

Two very different internal struggles that may appear to be the same.

It can be excruciatingly difficult to find the answer. I strongly encourage therapy. An emotionally sensitive feminine man is not the same thing as a woman. Be careful what you think it means to be a woman because you could repeat the same error in what you thought it meant to be a man.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that simply because "I am not nor ever have been 'This' than I must be 'That' "

Identity is not superficial. It is your core person that has always been with you.

[pamela7]

Hi Kelly,

Your post is worthy of its own thread, or maybe this could divert the OP. You make many valid points, and while I agree on the plausibility in many cases of your argument, I have also seen the converse. By this I mean that the concept of being a woman is also constructed, or can be, by limiting scopes for example (e.g. being predator-aware, keeping out of harm's way), and not every culture has the american "man up" false ego type of construct either. I have observed close-up, over many years my F2M step child. And behaviourally all I ever experience from him is "girl/woman/female"; there is very little of observable male in him, clothing apart. As my SO agrees about this observation this is not just one m2f saying it, it is also a GG.

A person with a lifetime of behavioural conditioning as a male is going to require considerable effort to deprogram those overlays before others will give confirmatory accepting of "all that is definitely womanly", if indeed any judger will allow that. Unfortunately, misogyny is strong and vibrant in both genders. Being defined/judged by one's body is not really better than being defined by behaviours.

All i'm saying is that it's more complex, and not a black-white split. The reason for the different proportions could be manifold: 1. women can be so socially suppressed that the idea of transitioning might engender far too many fears and dangers to be allowed out, 2. yes, as you say perhaps some m2f might be doing their best to express their feminine side - however mostly these would be satisfied by CD'ing, 3. there are twin spirits, there are female spirits in male bodies, there are male spirits in female bodies, there are intersex bodies, 4. the default body chemistry is female, grown in a female body, meaning the probabilities in transgender are biologically stacked in favour of m2f in terms of brain sex.

We have the lovely processing task of sorting this all out, and if our brain is female-wired, then that's what we have to go with. Once I "knew", that was it, identity-wise. Everything made sense finally.

So, it is complicated, but please don't write off 80% of m2f as males who failed to integrate their feminine side appropriately for that would be disrespectful to the suffering of our community.

xxx Pam

[elizabethamy]

What an interesting thread this has turned out to be! Stooping low enough to quote myself: "The transsexual forum on this site has been a place where I've lurked and written since my first discovery. For some reason, I knew immediately to go right by the CD stuff and into where the hard issues were being contemplated and discussed."

To me, the transsexual forum has been the place where hard questions, like those in Kelly's brilliant post, need to be asked. It's also (in other threads) a place for support to those who have made the leap and are moving across the gender binary. Those threads are sobering to me -- do I want all that? Do I need it? Someone at my age, wrecking a marriage and a career just to have a feminine body? For a long time I had decided that it just wasn't worth it, ergo I must not be truly trans, but as the depression deepened I began to re-ask the question.

I know there's tons of stuff on this, but some of us believe it's a binary and others a continuum. Still others believe one's identity changes over time. I think what Kelly has to say about masculinity is very interesting. I'm doing therapy, that's when this all reopened, when my (non-gender) therapist noted that the first time in her office that I had looked happy was when I talked about how I might be a woman.

So now onto gender therapy with a very seasoned person in that area...and, I hope, more amazing, sometimes difficult, often wildly generous and intelligent, discussions on here. I'm really grateful to all who write and who care.

e.a.

[Nikki.]

EA,

Based on your description it doesn’t sound like you fit into either of Anne Vitale’s groupings but I think this (and her other essays) are worth a read. As always thanks to Kaitlyn for posting this a couple years ago when I first found it.

http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

In the middle of a crisis it’s often difficult to really have perspective, but keep in mind there are endless ways to experience being trans, and there is no right way. Ignore anyone on the internet or IRL who tells you there’s only one way or your way is invalid. you be you.

[rachael.davis]

You can't kick yourself for not recognizing / allowing yourself to be you - even 15 years ago there was a very limited vocabulary for transgender, a couple of books in the library, magazines / newspapers were out there, and if you were willing to walk into a porn shop you could buy them - but they were written primarily for male creepers, not transgender women.