Time to tell the transphobic partner...advice?

[elizabethamy]

Hi everyone,

I got so much insight from my last thread so here's another one. I've been to a gender therapist who's ready to give me the hormone letter whenever I want it and who urges me to tell my transphobic (but otherwise very liberal, open and nice) wife as soon as I possibly can, ideally within the next week.

My wife knew I was experimenting with transsexuality 8 years ago and gradually became more hardened in her opposition. At first she just wanted me to promise I wouldn't become a woman (!), then just that I keep my explorations private, inside the house, then that I never put on one piece of jewelry or women's clothing or talk to or about any trans folks/support groups, etc. So we went into 5 years of absolutely nothing.

She says she was traumatized by the earlier exploration and therefore can't cope at all with a trans person on TV, let alone anything personal. If she sees a trans person in town she uses terms like "man" or even "it."

Otherwise, she is a great person and much beloved by everyone she knows -- I'm not joking. So I have always thought that her transphobia was all about trauma from the earlier episode.

So today, serendipitously, my quarterly appointment with my psych medicine provider (nurse practitioner) happened to come around. So I told her all about my re-emerged trans issues and that I am taking steps, seeing the gender therapist, etc. Her comment on my wife: "maybe she's so hostile about it not because she was traumatized, but because she knows that you are going to have to transition at some point and just can't bear to face it."

I had (stupidly) never considered that she already knows on some really profound level, but it sounds right to me.

Now how to tell her what is happening with me? I'm thinking of just saying it: I've been suffering for a long time, I know this is unfair to you, but I can't function any more, I know it's very real, and I have to act, and I can't put any boundaries around it because I don't know how far I have to go, though I suspect myself a full transsexual, and my providers think so, too. All that in the context of my love and respect for her.

I also plan to give her a letter -- she hates this kind of thing, but I want to make sure I have said what I want to say clearly.

Does this sound right to you, knowing that you don't know her or me? I'm ready for the consequence of losing my marriage. I can't go on the way I have been. Maybe her transphobia will vanish and she'll want to stay together. Maybe not. But I want to tell her clearly and fairly.

Advice? thoughts? Do it on a weekend, or on a night before work? Is my gender therapist right that I should do it asap, not wait at all?

thanks -- love to hear about your experiences if you can stand to re-tell them...

elizabethamy

[Rachael Leigh]

Liz you have so much packed into this it’s hard to know what to say. I know from my own experience you need to have a plan and if that does mean a full transition be sure you are commited to that.
As far as your marriage from what it sounds like your wife’s attitude is not likely to change and if you say your prepared for
it to end then make sure it’s worth it to you to go forward
I personally made lots of mistakes going toward what I thought would be a transition and now I’ve stopped that route for
various reasons. Just work with your gender therapists to work through this

[elizabethamy]

Rachael, thanks. The whole thing is so overwhelming - but I know that I can only take one step at a time, and because of my home situation, the first step (other than these initial therapist consultations) has to be telling her, then seeing what happens there. I'm not committed to a particular outcome, though I have notions of what it might be...but I can't do any experimenting outside my own mind until we have our talk...I hope your journey goes well!

elizabethamy

[Sara Olivia]

Hello Elizabeth,
Wow that is a difficult position in which you are finding yourself in. If you are certain that you need to tell her then my advice is to do it sooner rather than later. It will not get easier by waiting. You will just find yourself in a position where you will be unable to focus on pretty much anything but the issue at hand. As for your letter idea, I think its a great one. Its what I did because it permitted me to say what I needed to get out without being flustered or anxious or anything. I took my time writing it and made sure it said exactly what I wanted it to say. Then after they read the letter we were able to have a more meaningful conversation on the subject.

I wish you all the best of luck and I sincerely hope that she will come around and accept you for the person you are - and if that person is a woman named Elizabeth then so be it.

[LeaP]

EA - forget the letter. It’s a way of trying to control the conversation and it won’t help. Better for the two of you to find a counselor together and then use him/her as a facilitator. Don’t get a counselor yourself and suggest going and don’t even consider using any of your providers. You both need to do this together.

On another note, I wouldn’t impute transphobia from a spouse’s devastation. One doesn’t necessarily exclude the other, but neither does the latter make the case for the former. She’s having her life upended (just as you are, of course) and you are essentially blaming her. Even if necessarily so, you need to accept that you are the source of the disruption. Her reaction is completely understandable. My advice is that if you decide you must proceed, do so without unnecessary delay, but with kindness. And be prepared to take (and take and take and take) the brunt of the onslaught - assuming you love her as you say.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I agree with the idea of joint counselling somehow.

It doesn't seem like you'll get a favorable response, but having a therapist's support during the big reveal may reduce the size of the explosion and may even open up the opportunity for dialog.

From personal experience, my wife is DADT, but she allows me more freedom than yours does. But, I'm sure that she wouldn't even tolerate HRT, never mind a full transition. Mut, of course, YMMV.

[LeaP]

Steffi, none of this is about toleration or spousal freedom. It’s survival. The kind of GD that EA is describing is horrific. It’s mentally and physically debilitating, seriously so in the medical sense. It drives like a freight train to resolution, whether transition, HRT, or whatever else quiets it. It demands that we be seen for what we are, by someone, somewhere, somehow, at the very least, whether or not accepted, tolerated, or rejected. DADT crossdressing need not apply. There’s nothing wrong with it, it just misses the point.

[pamela7]

Hi ElizabethAmy,

Another (of many possible) perspective of your wife's position is to control a situation and keep you as the man she wanted you to be. If true, then she might not be quite as transphobic and it might not be a guaranteed split of marriage. Or, she truly is and it is the end, or she might use the threat to try to keep you as the man. Only by going there will you know.

I'd say that she's known a long time, you have tried and failed to be the man she wants you to be, and the real you is now going to be out and about, and either she loves you for you or she needs a man and she decides to end the marriage. That's clear, simple and i think will be a good approach given your info.

[elizabethamy]

I really appreciate the comments. I feel bad about blaming my wife for her feelings. She was traumatized by this once before, and perhaps avoiding ever seeing it helps keep her fears at bay. I'm the one that created the trauma, though everyone here knows it's really not something i could help. LeaP is so right that the dysphoria just swallows you up; you think it's going to stay small, like an annoying itch in the back of your brain, but after a while it overwhelms everything. I have felt completely differently about myself and my life prospects ever since I allowed myself to reopen this issue and to see a specialist. I look at the world with hope and I am optimistic and positive as I haven't been in a long time. It's sad, and that doesn't even begin to describe it, that our (my) loved ones won't want to participate in this journey; if my wife surprises me and wants to be supportive that would be wonderful. But I'm ready either way.

LeaP, you're also right about the letter. Even as backup it's a mistake for the two of us. She is away all weekend and I'm away when she gets back, so I'm going to work until Monday night to find the words and then to say them, then we'll see what happens. We've had joint counseling before, and I'm open to it, but only if she's open to being supportive. This time, no matter how sad it makes me to do this to her, I simply can't negotiate some kind of half-assed DADT like agreement. That won't do anything for me.

It sounds selfish, but after decades of depression, low self-esteem, letting others lead and do what they want first, I believe I have reached that point that all the veterans on this forum warn about: when you just have to do it. What "it" is will be unveiled one step at a time, and I have some great support on here and a couple people in town that I've already reached out to in ministerial confidence, so I'm not going backward this time. And I also don't want to participate in the deception; last night I took my gender workbook home and covered it with the jacket of a textbook from my class just in case she looked through my book bag or saw me reading...I'm glad I did that because that's exactly the kind of thing I hate and that ruins any sense of trust between two people, and it reminded me of how badly I want not to be lying and covering up any more.

In hope and fear, but mostly hope,

elizabethamy

[Teresa]

Elizabethamy,
I'm not totally convinced about your deep desire to transition , you appear to be uncertain in your own mind and the wording of your thread does suggest you don't feel it 100% . Using words like exploring and being able to accept it not happening outside the home. Also allowing your counsellors to appear to be the deciding factor rather than you showing that deep need through struggling with GD.

I understand the problems that can arise from a partner who just doesn't want to know, I know it can cast doubts in your own mind, it is hard at times to believe in yourself under those circumstances , I had to find ways to work round my wife , I had to believe in myself and what I really wanted, OK In my circumstances it has meant separation but at least I can now decide what road I'm going to take , I'm also finding it takes longer than I expected to get the old thinking and influences out of my head .

I suggest you make it certain in your own mind before you put it to your wife .

[Lisalove1976]

I am in a very similar situation mostly because of my own fault and not sticking up for Lisa and not wanting to hurt the one's I LOVE.... I was also thinking of writing her a letter for the same reasons as you and because no matter how much I plan the conversation in my hear the thought train always takes a different route and derails!
The letter to me seems like a good idea (my wife also hates them) but as times moves on Lisa becomes more and more part of me and mentally I suffer from having to keep her locked up. I would also tell her about the suffering in the hope that she would understand and that a little goes a long way in the fight BUT from past experiences I'm pretty sure she would turn it on me and say it's "always about you" which will in turn shut me down and put Lisa back in the suitcase for longer!

not sure if this helps or not but I though I'd give you my opinion

Lisa

[elizabethamy]

Teresa,

Thanks -- I feel more certain than I sound. To have discovered this late in life and to find virtually zero in the literature about similar people feeds the doubts that I think probably go with the territory. Counselors have not told me what to do but have reinforced my certainty, though it was the gender therapist who pointed out the one step at a time idea, knowing that some people find their needs addressed short of a full transition. Having suppressed this without much exploration other than online and in my head, I just can't say for certain where it stops, though I have a deep feeling that I am going to transition fully, without knowing why I feel that way. So we'll see. The point I was trying to make about talking to my wife (among others in my disjointed posts) is that the one thing I can't promise her is that I'll stop at point A, B, or C. On the one hand, I don't want to rush anything; on the other hand, I've waited a long time to be the person i was meant to be. That's the balancing act. Part of the "one-step-at-a-time" theory is just realizing how much is involved in a real transition, and how long it's likely to take. I don't want to be overwhelmed or smothered by thinking of everything I have to do, because I can't do it all at once.


Does this make sense?

e.a.

[Sara Olivia]

As for a counselor. We did that too but every time the counselor agreed with a point that I made, or made a point herself supporting me, my wife took it as us ganging up on her. In the end we resolved our issues and are still happily married.

[elizabethamy]

Isn't that always the problem with couples' counseling? That the person who doesn't want to change feels ganged up on by the therapist and the other partner? The only reason I can see to do that again would be for my wife to have a better understanding of what I have to do. I have lived my life like a ghost never feeling whole and doing whatever others want, including her, until I'm ready to explode, die, or take a chance on finding my true self. I can be counseled but I won't be talked out of what I have to do. When we did couples counseling several years ago, she did interpret it as being ganged up on, but really I think the therapist was trying to (a) give us a chance to stay together and (b) help us recognize that this is a real need I have and that it can't be suppressed. But suppress it I did, and not again. Not this time.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

there is no counseling that will help if your partner is not interested...
the comments are right...my wife and my mom hated my therapist... my mom called her a "guru"... just telling me what I wanted to hear.....heh...she was kind of right in a way!!

in my opinion
here is what can possibly help...

you gently tell her what you are doing...AND YOU DO IT....
its not a question...its not a negotiation.
she can say anything, do anything, threaten, cry, etc... not going to change anything...

and what do you tell her you are doing??
all you are doing is going to a therapist and considering measures to mitigate your gender dysphoria...
you've repressed it for her...and its killing you...its killing you... you are in despair...
and you've come to the conclusion that the best way to get out of despair is to explore your gender fully and openly...and you've already given a lot of thought and in your mind you are trans and that is what you want to talk to a therapist about..

that statement is crystal clear...and its perfectly true... anything more just complicates things..

and you cannot make any promises about what that means or doesnt mean...its a search...you are finally going to help yourself get better....whatever that takes, whatever that means...
talking about things in the future like transition makes no sense if you haven't even gone outside as yourself yet...

I cant lie...we've talked a lot...its very unlikely to go well... and I doubt it matters much what you say or how you say it...so its important that what you say feels RIGHT TO YOU...and works for you...
because that is what you will be left with... and you dont want the doubt of "did I say enough? too much??"..etc.. you cannot be in a position where you've made comments or promises that will make this therapy harder or any progress slower...

there is sadness and loss involved...she has controlled your situation and now you are taking control... that's what will need to be understood...

I urge you to not think too much... to keep it simple and to not back down if you are challenged...

also..you might hate this...talk to a lawyer...you have rights... my ex kicked me out... I left ...I never should have done that..in the end it worked out as best it could, but if this becomes a battle you will need to be prepared to not make mistakes that will cost you a lot of money or lose property... she cant kick you out ...you kick her out..lol..see what im saying??

I feel bad for you guys because I have been through it, and ive seen it..... but on other hand, life moves on and on the other side is all the stuff you want to start working on to live your own best life..

[Teresa]

Elizabethamy,
That is a very good point, when we do finally talk it through never make promises we can't keep , I've been saying this for sometime . We can't predict our route or how far , to others it may appear we are avoiding the issue but it's trying to be honest with ourselves before we can attempt to discuss it with others.

The single answer I always received was , " I'm not the one who's broken so I don't need fixing and it's my problem and it's for me to sort it !" That is difficult knowing how the counselling is going and the direction it's obviously heading in but you have no where to go with it , you're facing a brick wall with no way round it .

I have to say the sentence in Kaitlyn's reply saying she has controlled the situation now you are taking over control , we do have a life outside of marriage but we gradually give so much of that up until we raise the question , " What about me , don't I have a life and a say in it ?"

I admit that old chestnut of if someone is being selfish which one of us is it ? Also whose the one that's expected to make the compromises , so inevitably we get the finger pointed at us because in their eyes we are the guilty party .

[Tina_gm]

Hi. From a somewhat lurking guest on this sub forum, I am in a sense going through what you are. What was me being a casual CDer for 6 years has progressed to far more. While my at home arrangements never changed, internally I have been progressing more and more feminine in nature. Basically (as there was communication with my wife) that I was just progressing to be a more and more feminine man, there came a point where being a man, at least in a way in which she needs is no longer something I am able to give her. I am not predicting for you how it will go for you, but my wife and I are separating. It is not a separation out of anger but one of love. She and I are both basically loving each other enough to let the other one go and live the life they need to live.

My wife hates anything about TG. It is just not in her make up to be accepting to it. She has tried, over 6 years but never came to a point of comfort about any of it. As I have progressed, it became harder and harder to be the husband she needs, and harder and harder for her to be the accepting wife I need. I do agree with the others that when you do tell, just tell all without imposing any boundaries on yourself. That is where I am at right now. I am uncertain where it will lead as I have zero experience being out of the house, no street time as it is often said on here, so I really don't know yet where I will end up. Perhaps on this subforum, but perhaps not. I am not directing it in any direction, just seeing how and where it will go without the boundaries.

[Teresa]

Tina,
I separated a month ago it had to happen , we both know it was the right thing to do .

OK zero outside experience , maybe do what I did and find a social group, it's the best thing I ever did . Most will be happy to accept you in drab and allow you to change at the meeting . It's not ideal , usually it means squashing in a toilet/ restroom at least you are in a friendly environment until you build up your confidence . Shopping trips and mixing with the public can then happen in stages , it's all steps at your pace but not under a restrictive DADT situation .

[Nadine Spirit]

you gently tell her what you are doing...AND YOU DO IT....
its not a question...its not a negotiation.
she can say anything, do anything, threaten, cry, etc... not going to change anything...

This right here people.

[elizabethamy]

I totally agree. As Kaitlyn Michele knows all too well, I have tried everything else. DADT, total repression, every dpression/anxiety med there is, even thought-policing away the GD. I actually even went on testosterone supplements at one point, though my T levels weren't particularly low. (If you want to increase the sexual fetishism portion of your GD, testosterone works great, but it also makes the GD take on a more urgent, fierce quality. Ugly stuff.)

The big criticism of all trans people on those aggrieved-spouse sites and books is our selfishness. I'm just going to say that I think I have never figured out how to live as the self I am, and it starts now. I have always felt certain, since this GD revealed itself to me so dramatically several years ago, that I am TS, and I'll be surprised if this stops short of transition, but Kaitlyn is right: just as I can't promise her not to go beyond whatever boundary she hopes for, I also have no reason to know that I will transition fully until I start taking hormones, going out, getting more expert counseling, meeting other trans people, all of it.

Just deciding to stop repressing it has made me feel better than I have in years, and I plan to get a whole lot better as I actually take real steps. I think if I could offer any wisdom to others, NOT experimenting, "compromising" in the name of your job or your family or your marriage leads to misery, if you feel the GD strongly. Perhaps those with a slight dose of GD can be happy with compromise but they don't tend to stick around the TS forum because they have found what they need.

I know that for most of us, "selfish" really means self-care, for many of us for the first time in our lives. I'm girlishly excited about that!

Kaitlyn, I hear you about the lawyer. My main concern along those lines is to assure my wife that I won't abandon her financially and leave her impoverished. I am incredibly fortunate to have a job where transpeople are protected and I can keep my job no matter how my appearance changes, so long as I have the courage to stay. (The last job I had, I was in the process of getting fired before the trans issues even came up, so this is insanely great by comparison.) The insurance covers everything but FFS, and that's a bridge I won't have to cross for a while, if ever.

I just hope people who read this understand that my lack of courage and good will got me nothing but six more years of misery, and it's not like my family has a great time being around me -- my gloomy nature depresses and angers my wife. So she didn't "win" even though she hasn't had to look at me with nail polish, long hair, camisoles and plucked eyebrows. Nobody wins with repression. What I can tell her if she decides to try staying with me is that she'll get something out of it: a happier partner. It might be too hard to watch and too weird, but that's going to be the result. I can already tell.

Love and thanks to everyone.

elizabethamy

[Devi SM]

Elizabeth,
I read some of the comments but no time now to read all of them.
There's a lot of wisdom in them.
My own experience.
I out to my wife 2 years ago. She's really homophobic. We're from a country where homosexuality and related topics still being taboo.
I'm bisexual and crossdresser was basically the confession.
It was in a trip to San Francisco, 6 hours drive in one direction, then we had two sick days there.
I still feeling sad for the sadness I provoked on her but after 2 years love is our conversation.
If yoiur wife loves you (you must appeal to her love for you and family) do not wait she can understand you, more than that you try to understand her.
As others I don't see you 100% clear on what you want.
Getting out to wife makes a lot of difference in one's mind.
My sexuality and promiscuity, even my interest in men and sex itself has changed a lot and now is under control.
I promised no to lay with men and I'd been faithfully to that.
For now my main interest is being who I am and she has let me do it but everything has been an evolution in my mind as well in her but always appealing to our love and commitment to end our lives together...

[KellyJameson]

Being a sexed being can cause confusion concerning identity. It is not possible to remove the influences of sex as it pertains to gender identity.

Marriage usually is a sexed based relationship even when there is no sex because it was built on a foundation of sex.

A husband who is ruled by a wife is vulnerable to identity confusion because it reverses the sexual energies causing the person to question their identity (who and what they are)

Men who crossdress are trying to give expression to something that they identify as "feminine" but this is a mistake.

It is not feminine but simply something they do not know how to ( or won't) express except in " female form"

This form is a caricature of what women really are.

The men on this forum are vulnerable to confusion as a result of their participating in crossdressing. The crossdressing does for them what alcohol does for the alcoholic. Each is an escape to avoid confronting the actual problem and that is the problem created collectively by men and labelled "masculinity"

The rules men insist men live by to be respected as men create a trap for men who cannot live by them and remain human.

Unresolved gender dysphoria destroys the mind like a cancer. It cannot be controlled, questioned, ignored or compromised with.

I strongly urge you to question whether you are a man to fearful to live as a man so are running into the safety of "femininity".

So many men worship the feminine because they do not relate to the masculine without ever seeing that both concepts (the feminine and masculine) are toxic and inter-dependent but also illusionary and created out of fear.

This forum is largely made up of men in the later stages of life who are reflecting on a life possibly wasted and coming to an end.

They may be in or entering into an existential crisis and calling it "gender dysphoria"

Transitioning late in life should be done with no illusions because of the vulnerabilities inherent in old age.

No matter what you thing it means to be a woman you will be wrong from always having lived as a man. It is nothing like what men think it is . It is not about being pretty or wearing pretty clothes. It is in no way a male fantasy.

Before you can understand what it is to be a man or a woman you must know and have experienced what it is to be fully human otherwise you will be a caricature of both.

Be careful!

[LeaP]

Strong statements, Kelly.

Agreed on sexed being a source of confusion. I’m thinking primarily here about one’s sense of self vs. the body, however. The physical cannot be ignored or denied. The best you can do is come to terms with it.

Marriage is based on gender roles at *least* as much as sex. Either way, it reduces to cultural norms. Remember, in most places, at most times, marriage has not been about sex. Roles, however, still applied, and over a wide variety of practices and expectations.

A spouse ruled by a spouse has bigger problems than gender.

Nothing exists outside of a context. CDs swim in the context - the expression AS femininity. TS pass through it, often imitating until finding their own expression. Often, “crossdressing” is the first thing dropped on the discovery path. You can’t, however, blame people for ultimately assimilating into their own culture and expression. Both men and women live (or reference) caricatures ... archetypes, really.

Kelly, I really don’t think men flee from masculinity to femininity. The pattern for men is withdrawal.

Your statement about living as a woman having lived as a man may be miscontrued as invalidating. It also appears to contradict your prior statements about fleeing masculinity. I think you’ve put too strong an emphasis on aspects of the undeniable confusion and cliche with which many wrestle to the exclusion of a more centrist perspective - again, some sort of reasonable assimilation. People need to do the best they can, and few are prepared (or need) to dive into the existential wormhole you open.

Best - Lea.

[elizabethamy]

I appreciate the warnings, but I feel less confused right now than at any time I can recall, since puberty, which I still remember as a living nightmare. So many threads of my past, characteristics I have both had and lacked, elements of my marriage and my shortage of friends, of my confused way of getting through the world: all hidden by a mask of masculinity, the baggy sweaters and jeans, the beard and mustache, the big thick glasses. I don't look at myself in the mirror and I don't want anyone else to see me (yet). Because what's underneath the mask is something entirely different. I can't wait to reveal the person who is hiding underneath all that.

Crossdressing, the way Kelly describes it, is also a mask; the perfect female role an unattainable fantasy. The self-medicating analogy doesn't hold for me. When I drink out of desperation because I am losing my mind, there is an explosive quality to the whole thing. My only goal is to quiet the rage of the beast. But when I change my dress to feminine I do it not out of rage but to feel calm, connected, whole. It's a little hint of what's to come.

It hurts me to think I backed off and lost seven years when I could have been becoming a whole person, but it also strengthens my resolve that any notion my midlife revelations could have been a delusion born of crisis have been proven false. I'm sure this time, and I'm ready for the consequences.

I apologize if I have portrayed my wife as some kind of sadistic ruler. She has tried a hundred different ways to enable me to be an equal partner -- the man in the relationship -- but I have been unable to do so not because of her but because I am now sure that all I was able to do was act somewhat like a man. For her it must have been like living with a ghost. My wife is a lovely person who tried to improve the marriage constantly, and I was reluctant to do anything that was needed and oblivious to who I was. My defense was avoiding facing the truth about myself, which is why it remained hidden for so long. I had to work at it. Of course she is not going to respond well to what I have to say. (If she does, I will be the luckiest transperson on earth.) If not, I will always understand why.

The crossdressers who have a female fantasy that they will take a few hormone pills and then be twirling their skirts in the sunny city plaza belong in the other half of the forum. They have not had one thousandth of the difficulty that i have already had without taking the first step toward becoming a woman. It's some kind of fun and games for them that is just out of reach and baffling for me.

I know this conversation with my wife, as well as everything I have to do for the next few months and years is going to be very, very hard, and the end result will not look like Scarlett Johannsen, or even her grandmother. But the end result will finally be me, a true representation of who I really am, and no matter how many or how few years I have left, I will celebrate the discovery every day I am alive, no matter what else happens.

I don't condemn anyone for their views or for the path they have taken. It is very difficult to be a whole person in this world, and whatever works for someone should be honored and celebrated, including fashion-driven CD fetish-excess. Kelly is certainly right that each of us must take a hard look inside before reconfiguring the outside, but I would wager all the money i'll spend on my transition that virtually everyone in the TS forum is doing exactly that.

Thanks for listening.

elizabethamy



\

[Nicole Erin]

You have to decide how to live your own life.
The marriage may possibly end. Being TG causes a lot of us to eventually lose our marriage.
It's alright though, marriage is but an act and a legal bind between two people.

The only people in this world we really owe anything to is ourselves. Cannot live for someone else.