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Thread: Time to tell the transphobic partner...advice?

  1. #26
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    Kelly,Some interesting observations .

    I call the expectations of what a man is about and how he should conduct his life according to society as being forced to were a male straight jacket . From my own experience I went along with that for many years , " Hey look at me I've done male things to show you all I can do it !" I don't regret that there are parts of that life I wouldn't change for the World . But what is this gut feeling that also exists that only becomes satisfied when I appear female , they're only clothes OK at times they become very arousing but what lies behind and beyond that ? I now see the outer appearance as a window to the World of how I feel inside , not a caricature, but an outward admission . I've never feared living as a man because that's all I knew from a nearly age , I would prefer to live as a woman but I still partially fear that because I have to pass through the society hoops again. Living as a man or a woman in modern society isn't really that different anymore , there are many single parent families , we do many of the same jobs , women are equal to or some times superior in certain fields .

    The crux of all this is not the thought of which gender do I wish to live the rest of my life as but it's summed up in one word , " DECISION !" How do I make the right one ? Who do I turn to to help me make it ? and who will be by my side when I've finally made that choice ? That is what makes most people tick living with their chosen route .

  2. #27
    Silver Member Devi SM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole Erin View Post
    You have to decide how to live your own life.
    The marriage may possibly end. Being TG causes a lot of us to eventually lose our marriage.
    It's alright though, marriage is but an act and a legal bind between two people.

    The only people in this world we really owe anything to is ourselves. Cannot live for someone else.
    Can I disagree with you?
    We, human beings, as others races on the planet, need the others for survival as something basic thing.
    Psicologically and emotionally we are interdepent.
    Even legally marriage is a legal biding contract, resllky few people gets into that contract thinking on business but in a reciprocal relationship based in love.
    I agree with you in the sense that finally who matter a is us but part of that "us "me" for its happiness need the happiness of the other part thst in this case is hers and anyone, intimally needs to make a desicions on what kind of "sacrifices" I'm willing to do for the happiness of that person.
    In my case, I love my wife and she has been willing to sacrifice several things of her needs of a man for love me and see me fulfill my happiness but I've done sacrifices and I don't know yet how ready I'm to not be the full woman I'd like to be but see her happy. If this symbiosis survive I'm not throw away my marriage just because me because I do love my wife too and those reciprocal feelings are a need for me to...
    But finally I did that decision based on the love that she shows me and I was ready to sacrifice part of my life because she was willing to donut too but if she wouldn't show me love with sacrifice the contract does t work for a breach of the fundament of it that is Love.
    So it's a very personal decision, who I do love more and what makes more happy, my own and selfish happiness or my happiness of seeing the reason of my love happy?.
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  3. #28
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
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    Vanessa,

    This is very hard -- I appreciate what you're saying. But I have a proposal for this discussion: let's not use the word "selfish." Finding your self -- finally -- is not selfish. What's selfish is abandoning your family without thought for their well-being, which some mtf's have been known to do, but that isn't something most people on this forum would.

    Nicole, you alway get right to the point! I appreciate your amazing ability to cut through the typical elizabethamy word cloud!

  4. #29
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    Vanessa,
    That word selfish does cut both ways, I find separating wasn't a selfish act but a caring one, in fact we both knew it the right thing to do . To me it's early days yet but some of the phone calls I've received from my wife since have turned that selfish issue around she is now tuning that on me because she now realises she's handled the whole issue badly . She thought she'd got what she wanted now she has regrets . I know there's no going back on it , the damage is done and words can't be unsaid .

    Elizabeth,
    That's the ace card I'm being dealt now , despite it not being true . On the one hand I'm being told I'm out of any decision making and on the other I'm not making enough effort to be there for the family , trying to live my own life and set up my own home I'm told lacks responsibility and importance . OK hands up I'm the guilty party whether I say I care or not .
    Last edited by Teresa; 03-26-2018 at 07:53 AM.

  5. #30
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elizabethamy View Post
    Hi everyone,
    Advice? thoughts? Do it on a weekend, or on a night before work? Is my gender therapist right that I should do it asap, not wait at all?
    I agree with your gender therapist in that you should tell your wife ASAP. Like, do it today. If you are serious about this (and it sounds like you are), then it's time for you to take concrete steps toward a transition. You've already wasted enough years pondering and contemplating and repressing. You need to tell your wife so you can finally get started. It's beyond past time for you to freely explore your gender identity by making real-life changes and meeting real-life people in real world transgender communities and support groups. It's time to be real.

  6. #31
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
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    OK. I told her. It was hard; she sees it the way I predicted, the end of our relationship, as soon as we can work out the details. I was able to say my piece and make it clear that I have to do this, and that I'm really sorry for her that it has come to this, and that it's not her fault but that I am also not turning into a monster...but she doesn't want to stick around and watch it happen. Too embarrassing.

    She kept saying, why tell me now? I just said, I can't go through the deception, the hidden clothes, the secret therapist appointments -- can't do it. No lies. Just have to address this issue which is killing me. She understands but doesn't want any part of it and worries about her future financially and in terms of being all alone.

    I'm relieved, sad, not deterred.

    Thank you all for your suggestions. You gave me courage and clarity that I badly needed to be able to figure out who I am.

    elizabethamy

  7. #32
    Call me Pam pamela7's Avatar
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    well done. i can imagine you feel a lot better for shedding the secrecy, but also feel bad for her and the ending of your marriage. the depth of experience is rich and what life is all about, the highs and lows.

    best wishes
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
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    Elizabeth,
    If I didn't know it I feel I could be reading my own story .
    I hope it all works out OK for you , it's no one's fault but at least you have laid all the cards on the table, no hidden issues , no more lies or enforced deceit . Please be patient it takes time , I don't know if your circumstances are the same as mine but we made this decision last August , the house went on the market but's now only just happening for me through having to wait for the house to sell and buying my own and setting it up . I hope it can remain amicable for you , through various reasons my wife is turning slightly caustic , she is still trying to lay down conditions of how I should live . I feel she's finding it harder dealing with the loss of me and the control she could exert .

    If it helps please PM me .

  9. #34
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    elizabethamy, I don't want to sound blunt and uncaring, but you are thinking only about your self and not your wife or marriage. Your wife married what she thought was a man and now you want to become a woman. In some cases, this works out and the marriage stays together, but that's not likely to be the case with your marriage. Unlike cancer or a heart attack, in her mind, you are making a selfish choice here. You may not understand her feelings but they are real to her.

    It seems you have a choice to make; go ahead with your transition or "be a man" and save your marriage.

    I won't try to tell you which choice to make but I think it's unfair to call your wife "transphobic" or anything else. She feels that you have betrayed her. In many ways, you have.
    Krisi

  10. #35
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
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    My definition of "transphobic"

    Phobia is a fear, not a hatred. My wife is afraid of the whole transgender thing. Because it's me she can't bear to look at it on TV or in real life. She doesn't hate trans people. She doesn't hate me, though she is angry right now. This is just too painful for her to deal with anything about gender issues. Honestly, I think pure cisgender people have a hard time understanding this because they have never once thought about why they are in the body they have. So I get it, and I also get that this is worse, weirder, more publicly visible than leaving her for another woman or even coming out as gay. That attitude, and my obliviousness to what was wrong with me my whole life, are artifacts of a generation that won't be the case with younger people going forward. They'll know what it is and they'll just deal with it when they're still young. I realize that I'm inflicting pain here. That's what makes it hard.

    Maybe she will climb down from her stance that once I said the words, "The gender thing never went away and I have to deal with it," our marriage was over and that we have to sell the house. I would stay married, but not under the condition that I do nothing for the rest of my life to address my gender dysphoria. I told her that after some exploration and therapy and medication it might turn out that I don't transition and that we could go on as before, but she's not going to go along with that or even believe it's a possibility, and thus it's her choice to split up immediately, which I understand.

    Can a person who knows what they have to do to find their true self be called selfish for doing it?

    elizabethamy

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    Krisi,
    It's gone too far for Elizabeth, I know exactly the situation she's in, once that decision was made as far as my wife and I were concerned it became easier , we both saw it as the right thing to do . Tossing around the selfish label helps no one when it's reached this stage , it's more of a decision to man up and follow it through rather than man up to prolong the agony .

    Elizabeth has the right to live her life on her terms as well as the wife , once both parties can see this it can and must happen. My children haven't taken sides or put the blame on anyone , what they think or say behind my back doesn't bother me because it's not going to change me or the situation . Elizabeth hasn't mentioned that point as far as I'm aware .We may be husbands but we are not possessions to be picked up and put down by someone else , too many men appear to fall into this trap to appease their wives/partners, are they happy ? I would think 50/50 are not !

    I'm afraid we encounter this problem because of DADT, OK so we may think or say our partner is transphobic I would say that statement is usually true otherwise we wouldn't have to suffer so much through being TG .

    Elizabeth,
    I have been saying this for sometime , women especially don't have this trait , if people can't relate to it they will never fully understand , we could argue they are the selfish ones for not trying to understand it. My sister in law was like that but now it's come to a separation she has had to acknowledge there is more to it than she realised but she is now accepting it and doesn't have a problem even not being concerned about seeing me , I think still that is more out of curiosity however .

    I also wonder how different it might be if I had gone off and had an affair, I've often pointed out that if it wasn't for my CDing our marriage could have been over anyway through that issue , she's always known I'm not gay in fact she's accused more than once of being homophobic , the fact is I'm not it's just that I can't relate to a male to male relationship.
    Last edited by Teresa; 03-27-2018 at 08:22 AM.

  12. #37
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elizabethamy View Post
    Can a person who knows what they have to do to find their true self be called selfish for doing it?
    You are being honest with your wife about how you feel and what you feel you need to do to move forward. You're finally putting aside the years of hiding, deception, and secrets, and making an effort to be completely honest with your wife. You have everything to lose and nothing promised to gain. And you're not manipulating her or guild-tripping her into staying with you as you start this journey. How is that selfish? If anything it was selfish for you to have waited this long to do this. But we can't change the past. We can only learn from our regrets and move forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    elizabethamy, I don't want to sound blunt and uncaring, but you are thinking only about your self and not your wife or marriage. Your wife married what she thought was a man and now you want to become a woman. In some cases, this works out and the marriage stays together, but that's not likely to be the case with your marriage. Unlike cancer or a heart attack, in her mind, you are making a selfish choice here. You may not understand her feelings but they are real to her.

    It seems you have a choice to make; go ahead with your transition or "be a man" and save your marriage.

    I won't try to tell you which choice to make but I think it's unfair to call your wife "transphobic" or anything else. She feels that you have betrayed her. In many ways, you have.

    All very "chivalrous". If I may make a point here. If Elizabeth has a "choice" to make, the decision should be a foregone conclusion. If manning up looks like an option, it should be the only choice.

  14. #39
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
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    The choice I have is to continue suffering in order to keep the external things as they are. I realize that making the other choice, trying to figure out who I am and how I need to be in the world, is going to upset, even destroy, things as they are. Even with suffering for the rest of my life as the easy choice, I still think it is right for me to address these issues. I have told my wife that I am not trying to break up the marriage. We can stay together, but I'm going to see therapists and do what needs to be done, including hormones, dressing, whatever is needed until I feel okay about myself. Of course it's the symptoms: the clothes, the wig, the makeup, the shoes, the possible surgery -- all the physical manifestations of the exploration -- that she cannot tolerate.

    Like most wives, she doesn't want a front row seat for this, and I totally don't blame her.

    What I've learned since telling her the other night is that it is not one conversation, but the first of many. We talk every morning and every night. It's rough and I don't know if anything is improving except that we understand each other's feelings better than we did. We'll probably have to split up so that I can address my gender issues -- and I've told her that I am not going to declare the end result without a lot of counseling and exploration, but that I believe on some level that transition is likely. Of course, that's awful to say to her, but it's the point where telling her what I really think and feel is what it's all about.

    e.a.

    p.s. having a couple of people I can confide in, both online and in person, has meant everything these past few days. Strongly recommended to anyone facing this.

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    Elizabeth,
    What you're doing is really hard and for a time it will get harder. When the fog clears you'll get a better idea of what's right for you. When that happens, it gets easier. It will come to you and you will realize your true path. If you are one of the lucky ones, your spouse will come along, if not, remember that, "There are more tears shed over answered prayers than over unanswered prayers" What we think we want may just be antithetical to the actual facts. If this truly is your path, the forces of the Universe and your powers of creative visualization will step in to accommodate you.
    We have no idea what the future may bring, regardless. So listen to your heart, your soul and finally, your intellect. You seem like a very sentient and cautious person. Those traits will be incredibly invaluable on your path. No one can know what's right for you though everyone will proffer suggestions as if they're fact. The key is that if you truly follow your heart, the rest must fall into place...... Wherever that place may be. Good luck and be strong. You're gonna need both. J

  16. #41
    Silver Member Devi SM's Avatar
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    Elizabeth, just in few days since you began this thread I've seen an evolution on your thinking. That gives the prompt to think that things can evolve too and is not good to do radical decisions.
    As you said, you guys had been talking nights and mornings, if you keep doing it, and both do counseling, therapy individually and as couple, new horizons will appear. Sometimes things could look worse or better so don't give up or sing victories but if you honestly love each other, each of you will be willing to do concessions but if there's no love just selfishness, that's the opposite of love, will be the language and the end will be obvious and clear for both.
    When I mention selfishness I don't mean that think in yourself or your wife thinking on herself is bad. It's a valid option but out of the marriage.
    Marriage is a contract of love where both gives but receives too. There's no love if just one gives, even if she or he gives everything for love it the other doesn't give, that's selfishness and no love.
    Last edited by Devi SM; 03-28-2018 at 07:34 PM.
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    Elizabeth, I just read of your total reveal and wish you all the good fortune and happiness you wish and want. I wish the same for your wife.
    I was just about to suggest to you that if it was possible, your wife might read this paper. Maybe it could better explain to her the whys of what you are experiencing.

    http://avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

    Dr. Vitale is female. She will do phone therapy, if your wife or you wish to do so.

    http://www.avitale.com/Newclientinfo.htm
    Last edited by Jenny22; 03-29-2018 at 03:25 PM.

  18. #43
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Hi Jenny, the second link suggests that Dr Vitale only offers consultation to Gender Dysphoric patients rather than to their partners.

    Apparently the content of the first link has become slightly controversial. Discussion of the validity of the linked article is off topic for this thread and will be deleted.
    Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.

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  19. #44
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
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    I’ve had Skype sessions with Dr Vitale a life ng time ago and they were very helpful. I wasn’t prepared to deal with what she told me then, but I definitely recommend her.

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    Elizabeth, I’ve been reading this and other threads with interest.
    I see much of myself in what you’ve written, in one form or another, so I’m not sure I can offer any words that will help the situation.
    As I see it in life, we all have a journey, where it starts, and finishes is what we make of it, and whether we have the inner strength to make what can be difficult decisions or choices affecting ourselves or our families.
    Best wishes, and I sincerely hope you are able to come through at the other end, without too much heartbreak, for either of you.
    Needing to be the Real Me.

  21. #46
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
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    Friends, this is so hard.

    I mean I knew it would be, but to look your beautiful wife of nearly 40 years in the eye and confess that what's in your heart is the knowledge that you will need to fully transition, and that what's in her heart is that she has only wanted to spend the rest of her life with the man she married so many years ago -- well, it doesn't go easily from there. We laugh at "thoughts and prayers" sometimes, but I'll take all you've got right now. My gender therapist is wonderful, but to leave my wife on the outside of this freight train of gender change is understandably beyond awful for her.

    She wants couples therapy, but I fear it's for the purpose -- probably unconsciously -- of trying to set boundaries and create compromises. It's really painful to tell her that we've already been there and done that, and that the dysphoria is not fed by such half-measures.

    How will it all end? I hope much better than it's going right now! I'm open to suggestions especially about things like boundaries, couples therapy, etc.

    My gender therapist told me of a client she had counseled who came to her in poor health at 60+ but desperate to live as long as she could as her real self. She only made it three years, but said frequently they were her best three years and worth all the trauma and suffering. This resonated powerfully with me and is something I try to hold onto when it just seems easier to cave in and agree for the good of the family not to do this, etc.

    It's as if my true self is just over the river, and I'm trying so hard to jump across.

    Thanks to everyone for all their support and help. You are making an enormous difference to me at a critical moment in my life.

    elizabethamy

  22. #47
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear it's been so hard. Unfortunately it will continue to be hard and will get even harder. Much harder. Your persistent drive to transition regardless of these and upcoming difficulties will be proof to yourself that this transition is something that you really need, and not just a phase.

    As for your wife, does she have the support network she needs to get through this? It's great that you have your gender therapist, and also this forum. But who does your wife have to confide in? This isn't something she can just talk about with her current friends. Maybe she will benefit by meeting other women who are or were in a similar situation as the wife of a transitioning MtF. To that end she may need your help to find and attend the support groups where these women are. Even if that means driving long distances to go there together.

  23. #48
    Just do it already! DaisyLawrence's Avatar
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    I am sorry for your situation. Sometimes you come to a crossroads in life, what to do, turn left, turn right or compromise and go straight on? Unfortunately I think your life may be at a T junction with no straight on. Turn left and fully transition, loose everything you love and live with the guilt of what you did to your wife after 40 years together in the twilight of her life, or turn right and constrain your crossdressing enough to stay in a loving happy relationship with your wife. No-one can advise you here which way to go. Only you can decide. Only you know if the need to transition is so great that you take that route along with all the consequences. I don't envy you your decision, just be sure to make the right one as some things can't be undone. Sorry but that where I think you are. If you can find a straight on, take it. Best wishes for your future whatever you decide.

  24. #49
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    Elizabeth,
    Can you confirm you are separating from you wife , I thought you mentioned you were but was that just being chewed over between the two of you ?

    I can only tell it from my own recent experience that separation isn't the end of the World. We came to the decision because we knew it was right for both of us , it is amicable up to now and we have the full support of the family , the children are OK about it . OK I admit it's been easier our old home gave us sufficient to buy a new home for both of us and also give me enough spare to buy a rental property , I can exist off that and my pensions and be independant . I still can't answer the transition question but at least I'm free or mayber freer to take my time and think it through . All this is happening after 43 years of marriage , it is sad that I thought we might share our old age together but the damage was done and there's no going back on it . I try and not think about my age as drawback but a last opportunity to live a life I'm comfortable with .

    I wonder if you should do the same thing and consider if separation is the first step to deal with and then sit back and think the transition issue over in you own time without the pressure of a wife/partner . Sometimes that pressure forces an issue beyond it's importance . I have to admit I'm a changed person since living alone, the contentment has balanced many issues out . I went out dressed and did my everyday jobs for the first time and felt totally at ease that would never have happened previously .

    I do feel for you I know the decisions you have to face , once made it's like a millstone lifted off your shoulders , in the end it has to happen , your life matters too .

  25. #50
    Silver Member Devi SM's Avatar
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    I would advice you to wait a bit. How long? Some months, may be a year and see. It would happen that the time softner her and agree to go with you the rest of your road. It would happen that you softer and decide to walk with her road, or the things are so powerful obvious and clear without fear, sadness that everybody would be real happy.
    Believe me, we're evolving creatures. We adapt to almost everything.
    In my case, wife always refuse to go out with me dressed but yesterday we enjoy a lovely day of two girlfriends shopping around, theater, dinner, the only think I really missed was to walk hanging her hand as always we do but at the end of the day, for some minutes we did it and we didn't care about the world...
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