Daisy ,
Sorry but the moment we talk and move we give away tell tale signs, looking for 100% can only lead to disapointment .
Linda,
That sales lady was so right , I felt comfortable because the clothes fitted , OK I'm still getting use to slim fitting ladies trousers . I know i've said this before but everyday is harder than dressing to the "nines " . If we overdo the makeup or go OTT with the clothes it's usually for a fun night out , everday jobs aren't all fun , that's where a little GG watching helps , seeing what they wear for everyday , how much makeup how well their hair is groomed .
I know I've read your story of the security guard before , we all know he was wrong but you couldn't do much about it and he knew that .
Sara,
I don't know if you recall but Marcelle ( Isha ) asked her wife to play wingman , it was an interesting outcome, she always said passing was an impossibility and she did have some interesting encounters . Sadly to the point of physical violence !
I must admit on my trip out recently I occasionally glanced behind me to see if anyone was having a jaw dropping moment or a fit of giggles , I didn't catch either I was just another shopper to them .
Sallee,
It's one of the reasons I couldn't do MIAD , my intention is not to confuse anyone , full time is what I'm aiming for so I have to get it as right as I can . I Know Kandi is right and it's also a comment Pat made that we do overthink things.
From the other side of the coin GGs must go out wearing something wondering if their rear end does look too big , or somthing make their boobs look bigger than they are comfortable with. Then there is the issue of hip and butt padding , as my dear GG friend in the bridal shop said, " What makes you think we want to carry all that extra baggage around with us . I don't need it and I don't use it , I'm a slim guy and a trim woman , I know the clothes that work for me.
Last edited by Teresa; 04-01-2018 at 04:57 AM.
Seen GGs that 98% passed as 6ft 4 lumberjacks even when they weren't trying too.
Seen little GG's that 98% pass as skater boys, when they weren't trying too.
Seen little males that 98% pass as girls without trying
Seen big males with beer bellies and boobs, that 98% pass as big girls without trying.
IE bodies come in all shapes and sizes.
People see in me, what they want to see
See all my photos, read many stories of my outings and my early days at
http://rachelsauckland.blogspot.co.nz
Rachel,
I know what you're saying , I get the impression they are a funny lot in NZ ,( only kidding !) I notice you didn't say 100% in your examples . I know I keep geeting comments from TSs especially that I pass very well or I'm very convincing , it's very kind of them to say that but I wonder if we ever lose those nagging doubts. I still wonder what goes through some TSs minds when they stand maked infront of a mirror , do they still question their decision, is there still that little male voice telling them this isn't right .
I couldn't help think that the other day, I was naked in front of the mirror looking at my male parts wondering what difference does it really make when the makeup and clothes go on . The fact is the public don't know and mostly don't care , no one has ever asked me if I still have a willy or not or are my boobs real !
Be good to people and most all will be good to you !
Yes, I recall those stories from Isha.
My friend Diana and I have been kicking this around for about as long as we have known one another. It came out of her being very defensive when she would go out with me. Thing is, we can look over our shoulder on occasion and all seems fine but it takes the wingman/woman to actually engage the Muggles in your wake in conversation in order to coax a reaction out of otherwise politeness. Or to see what people are holding in until they are certain you are out of earshot. This is where the passing thing is most objectively measured because not perceiving being read does not passing make.
And besides, most of us are exposed when we open up our mouths and actually converse with others. Several here have talked about being mute when out & about and thinking how wonderful it is. I can't imagine anything worse, being in a place we want to be and limiting ourselves by refusal to talk. Besides, as has been said, you have likely already been read by others without talking. Might as well own who you are and enjoy being among others to the fullest extent.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
Again, speak for yourself. Maybe you should work on your walk and speech. I say again, there are 100% passers in the world but you wouldn't know it because, quite simply, they pass 100% and therefore they are essentially just another female. You've probably even fancied one over the years. How could you know if they truely pass.
I feel like I pass very, very well because pretty much everyone who sees me knows I'm a transgender person -- and that's what I am. I think the key to happiness lies in accepting yourself and then you'll know you look exactly how you should look and if anyone has a fit of giggles about you they're the ones who have a problem.
I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
Yesterday I was in a Chico's, a female clothing store that is popular especially with more mature women. I was searching the racks to see if I liked anything and also observing the clientele. The range of body shapes was large and the range of dressing, from rather shabby looking to well turned out, was also large.
Perhaps the answer for us cross dressers is to always try to look as good as possible with tasteful choices in clothing and makeup, be pleasant to those we interact with and not react to the few strangers who just cannot control their behaviour.
Teresa noted a conversation with a fellow dog walker. When she told him that he might sometimes see her in female mode he just requested that she do it well and not like the awful apparition he saw walking along the street in the local town with a terrible wig and poor choice of clothing. If people see you have taken pride in your appearance and conduct yourself with confidence then they will probably just leave you alone.
The question of passing has gone through quite an evolution in my own head. I was always concerned about making sure that my hair, makeup, and clothing was spot on and situation appropriate. I spent a lot of time watching women and how they interact with each other and the public in general. My job in adult education also forced me to come out of my own shell and most times initiate the interaction with my clients. I soon learned the same lesson about Zoey. When Zoey initiated the conversation with others that was a big key to being accepted easily when I was out dressed. If I initiated contact and talked with people in public they were quite fine with continuing the conversation and pretty soon were not looking at me but interacting with me even dressed as a woman. Distraction?? Maybe....
That interaction created a lot of confidence on my part being Zoey, and that confidence and watching how other other women interact, brought a lot of poise to my presentation. To me it was a bunch of baby steps that grew together into who I am today.
I suspect to my friends who knew I dressed, I probably sounded like I lacked confidence because I would also be asking do I look OK or is my hair out of sort or most importantly are people looking at me strangely. Finally a good friend told me people look at you not as a crossdresser, but because you present as a pretty, confident, poised woman. That gets noticed when ANY woman steps into the room who has that poise and confidence. You do not have to be the prettiest or the best dressed but the poise and confidence gets noticed everywhere. Initiating conversations and contact with the general public for me was what gave my confidence such a boost. You really do completely forget about yourself. My poise in public has become a much higher priority to physical appearance.
With that poise, I really stopped being so shy and started going about life as Zoey. The resonse I get is pretty amazing.
Hugs, Zoey
I like the "wing man" analogy. If you can become personal friends with a "seasoned sister" from the forum, you'd be surprised at how at ease you'll be when you go out with her.It really worked for me.
Daisy,
OK go argue the point ! Even if I worked on my speech and walk every single day it still wouldn't give me a 100% pass rating ! You only have to read some of the threads in the TS section to realise this . I dress to be me as you do, it's not an act , a false voice and a sexy wriggle still isn't going to change that , besides it's impossible to keep that illusion up .
I'm willing to acknowledge that there are a few, a very few, who without the aid of surgery or hormones can pass 99.99% of the time. There will always be the exception to the rule, the tiny thing that casts doubt into an observers mind.
That said in my view is we shouldn't fall into the trap of seeking that holy grail. Some will come closer than others by virtue of having a small frame and stature. Lucky them. What those of us who have been out need to focus on is the message that you definitely don't need to pass to be able to go out and interact in the muggle world. It's a myth, a falsehood that the only way you'll be able to safely get out and present yourself is if you look like a size 0 fashion model.
Presenting well, and by that it's dressing in the everyday clothing GG's wear and being prepared to confidently interact when out is the secret to success. Sure if you're going clubbing glam it up a bit but if your aim is food or clothes shopping, traveling on public transport, grabbing a coffee, dress to be Ms Average and do so with confidence. That's what the vast majority of those here who go out do and with great success.
"I won't go out until I know I pass" is what's kept so many caged in their own homes needlessly. We need not to discuss passing but talk about how easy it is by following a few basic rules to be able to get out there and fully express ourselves. The message should be writ large, YOU DON'T NEED TO BE 100% PASSABLE TO GO OUT. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO 100%!
Last edited by Helen_Highwater; 04-02-2018 at 08:14 AM.
Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed
Right on, Teresa & Helen. I'll add that the 1% who can 100% pass are not likely hanging around in these pages. They are living their lives as the women they are. This is not to say there aren't some very remarkable presentations here but one has to keep in mind that pictures do not tell the entire story. The photo may be one of a hundred with the other 99 being far from convincing. And then there are the IRL factors: Voice, walk, decorum, grace, etc., all of which are much more difficult to master naturally for anyone who was raised/socialized male. These things don't translate so well to photographs aside from grace when evidenced in a perfect pose.
No one is saying we shouldn't try our best either. Helen's closing comment should be required reading for anyone considering going out into this wonderful world of ours.
Finally, Zoey nicely describes getting over her own hurdles and how this helped her self confidence. I'll add that when you work through these things and put the holy grail of passing on the back burner where it belongs, life becomes much more enjoyable.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
I've passed a lot of times, even while speaking. I've also been clocked a number of times. But I don't see that as the point. The only person you need to pass with is yourself. When I go out, I'm a Lady. Period. If you see something else, you're wrong. Too bad for you.
Too often, I think, getting clocked raises feelings of shame and guilt. There's no reason for this. Yeah, I'm not the prettiest girl in town. I may have a deep voice and walk funny, but I'm still a Lady, and I expect to be treated like a Lady.
I don't pass when I look in the mirror. I'm 6' 4 " I have massive hands, massive feet. My wife does not think I pass. So however feminine I might feel, I know I don't come close to passing, never will . It used to hurt, but what the heck, life goes on and I have a very good life. I very much doubt I will ever have the pleasure of dancing in a night club, as a woman, something I would love to do, I love dancing. But there is so much more to life than dressing, as important to me personally as it has always been.
My partner and my kids will always come first. There are things you can influence and there are things that you simply have to except.
Last edited by Jane G; 04-02-2018 at 10:32 AM.
Helen,
I agree it's so easy to cage youself up fearing if every details isn't right you won't be able to do it . OK I do fall into the small frame group, I do consider myself very lucky and admit it makes it so much easier .
Sara,
I may have relied on pictures and may still may do at times but my avatar picture was one of about half a dozen , very often it's a one off , asking people to take some pictures usually means they are prepared to take a couple of snaps and that's it .
I am in my tenth month of transition and it has gotten increasingly more difficult to come back to the forum. I have many trans friends who have never heard of this forum. I am on the planning committee for the Texas Transgender Anti-discrimination Summit. At a meeting a couple of months ago I met Maddie. We were in close proximity and engaged in conversation for over an hour before I wrote her off as a gg political candidate seeking support. Later in the evening I overheard her mention the word transition. It turns out that she transitioned six years ago and is a mom to the four sons that she fathered. There was not one clue that she wasn't a gg. At the same meeting I met Kayla. Same thing, different story but a vision of loveliness. You can Google "Blind Butterflies" and find Kayla's website.
PIctures are usually kind, even when they are not altered.
There are five ways that human beings communicate, even unintentionally. They are: (1) The words we say, (2) Voice inflection, (3) Facial expressions, (4) Body position, (5) Gestures. All of these things can be worked on. For me, voice is a constraint. In person I present enough visual clues that voice is a giveaway maybe half the time, On the phone, however, I am misgendered 100% of the time. For that reason I have an evaluation scheduled at the University of Houston Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders. They have a program that helps transgenders with voice training.
When I first saw Zoey she was sitting in a hotel lobby. I paid her no mind as we checked in. I unconsciously pegged her as a gg just passing time. A group of us, including Zoey, had plans to meet for an afternoon and evening of activities. We connected by phone a few minutes later and shortly after met in person. Zoey's poise and confidence that she has gained is obvious. But, at the end of the day all that matters is being yourself and authentically engaging people. The best advice I can give anybody is to stop looking for reactions from people. That is not a normal behavior and will get you flagged for sure.
Last edited by Jeri Ann; 04-02-2018 at 03:35 PM.
I agree with Zoey.
Attitude and confidence are very key things to have as far as your presentation is concerned.
When presenting as a woman you will be noticed there is no getting around that and yes there will be people assessing your appearance.
You can go all out to the 9's or be casual but always try to be tasteful and dressed properly for where you are.
In that I mean as other women are dressed.
I think I agree with Pat on this one! Be confident in who you are and you will succeed! If "they" don't like it it is there problem not yours! Hugs Lana Mae
Life is worth living!
"Foxy lady! You look so good!!" Jimi Hendrix
My new goal is not to pass as a female but pass as "full time". The best we can do is be ourselves present and act normally, then hope for the best.
I enjoy being a boy, being a GIRL like me!!!
"Passing" is, when you take the time to pin down and examine what we are really talking about, all about the management of two things, awareness in the observer and cues in the subject. As Jeri Ann points out, those cues are not just the physical characteristics we carry, they are also our mannerisms, speech, facial expression, etc. In the meeting she speaks of, Jeri Ann's awareness was set on maximum, and yet she missed whatever cues there might have been that would have enabled her to spot a peer. I'll wager that it was Maddie's comfort in her own skin, her natural feminine self that kept her above Jeri Ann's keen awareness. That, is passing, in my book. I recognize that not everyone defines it that way. I do not consider it "passing" when the cues meet the awareness of the observer and the realization is made, but the interaction continues without a shift in the gender-based rules of social decorum. Calling that acceptance isn't quite right, though maybe that's as close as we're going to get. It's certainly not "blending", mind you. That's what we do when we manage to keep cues and awareness from meeting. Whatever we call it, it is our comportment and our behaviors that will invite others to keep on with the interaction with us as female. Does it always work? Of course not, but it's effect is undeniable.
IMHO I do not think people who recognize you as a man really accept you as a woman. It is obvious from reading the newspapers or watching news casts many people believe transgender men and women are suffering from mental illness. Talk to some politicians! I know people who are of that persuasion. I also know people who accept the premise there are men and women born into the wrong physical body. When it comes to interacting with a cross dresser I really do not know what most people believe.
What I have encountered is a wide range of reactions. Some people are inclined to assault transgender men and women, gays and lesbians, and cross dressers. Why? No particular reasoning. Just because. When it comes to interacting with transgender men and women and cross dressers I think many people do a "threat assessment." The old bathroom law arises. Do you want that big burly male presenting as a woman in the ladies' restroom? There is no opportunity to ever get to know the person or the person's intentions. If a cross dresser is well attired, of smaller physical stature, and acts cordial in a women's clothing store or an art class, I think a quick "threat assessment" is made. The conclusion is the person is not a personal threat to safety.
Don't say I'm wrong on the threat assessment. You make a "threat assessment" every time you're out in the public and stop someone who is out of place. You tend to avoid them or at least make a mental note of potential danger. Of course, the most courteous and pleasant appearing man or woman may be the most dangerous person you meet today.
I would hope a transgender man or woman would be accepted for who he or she believes himself or herself to be. If I do not profess to be a transgender woman when attired in female clothing I would never believe anyone would accept me as a woman. I would hope I would be accepted as a non-threatening person.
Last edited by Stephanie47; 04-03-2018 at 10:52 AM.
I really try to do my best when I dress as a woman to present as a woman. However whenever I'm shopping out in the wild, I don't try to pretend that I'm not a guy if they guess right. I usually just tell the sales person that I'm a CD they look, smile and say "Have a good day". I dress for me not for others.
Jeri Ann,
Your last sentence did make me think how right you are , stop looking for reactions !
I admit that is harder than it appears , epecially when you overhear a convesation concerning you . I overheard a couple debating whether I was a woman or not , in that instance the wife wanted a paper I had been reading so I approached them to offer it .
My daytime outing a few days ago went very well because I was going out to do some jobs around the my town so I was more immersed in them rather than wondering what people thought , Ok I did notice when passing through the supermarket checkout how so few people even noticed I had walked past them , I admit it did feel good to feel part of the community and not a social oddity .