How difficult is it to pass as women?

[taylor12]

Hello

I hear many here do not pass but what is the main reason for that to not pass as a women?

I am planning my first proper dressed out in 30 days from now out as a CD but at remote area where less people are there. Clothes are either black peplum mini dress or spaghetti straps mini dress.

[Ressie]

The main reason is that we are men. We have men's bodies, men's faces, Men's big hands and feet. The list goes on....

[Tracii G]

We walk like monkeys, grunt and scratch ourselves too.
Facial structure, beard shadow about a million things give us away.
A remote area late at night can be dangerous so pick a place to go during the daytime where there are lots of people.
Its a lot safer that way.

[Micki_Finn]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by “pass”. Going unnoticed in a crowd from 50 yards away? Not terribly difficult. Interacting one-on-on and face to face? Much more difficult. I notice that you’re from India. I’m unfamiliar with the culture over there, and my understanding is that it’s not a country that’s terribly tolerant towards us, so please please please be very careful going out. If there are laws against that sort of thing where you live be even more cautious.

[LexiNexi]

Its not easy! The one thing I have learned is don't dress over the top. Dress like a normal girl would. I am a few months into my transition into being a female responding really well to hormones and having laser hair removal so alot of head start and I have alot going for me like small stature/hands/feet and I still don't pass; just come off as really fem/gay boy. Voice gives it away. Any cross dresser that can pass has my envy and they put alot of work into it.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

For me, at 5 ft 7 and 81Kg,
I'm to old to worry about passing, or spending more than 5 minutes doing make up.

so my give aways
- Voice
- My square chin and 5 o'clock shadow
- My workouts at the gym and pools to build a strong, fit and lean body

If you use foundation or concealer thats the same as your face color it works wonders. Even before I got laser on my face a one minute application of concealer and the 5 oclock shadow completely goes away; all day. The stuff is really amazing. Kind of tricky to put on because you want to rub it in but dabbing it on real thin is the trick. I sometimes use it on my arms to cover marks from needles from hormone shots.

Also great to cover track marks If you like to shoot up drugs

[mykell]

i think the key is to pass as your"self" first.
once you are over the fear that some will figure you out and it does not matter then you are ready to mix upon folks in the wild.
you wanting to go to a remote area with less people in a mini dress does not sound like the right formula unless you were going to a club to socialize.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I don't know about India, but I find a lot of GGs walking around who don't pass as women.

In the 50s and 60s when all woman were petite, even an average sized dude would stick out in a crowd.

Now with the obesity epidemic, larger woman have made it much easier for many men to pass aa a woman in plain sight.

I think my voice and comportment are my biggest "tells".

[Pat]

In the 50s and 60s when all woman were petite...

What? Perhaps you mean when they were trying to make larger, non-conforming women invisible? I'm pretty sure non-petite women are not a recent invention.

I note the Indian Supreme Court has made a number of decisions endorsing transgender rights over the last few years and several state-run businesses have tried to accommodate transgender folks, so maybe things are changing there just like they're changing elsewhere in the world. Still, it's always correct to stay aware of your situation when out and about.

[Jodi]

I pas the 200/200 test. I'm totally passable at 200 yards and at 200 mph. Otherwise there are enough tells that something will give me away

Jodi

[Sometimes Steffi]

What? Perhaps you mean when they were trying to make larger, non-conforming women invisible? I'm pretty sure non-petite women are not a recent invention.

Larger women are not a recent invention, but women were in large part 5-7-9, hence the name of the store.

My Dad was a shoe buyer, and he took me along on some of his buying trips. I remember one case specifically when he was closing the deal that he wanted shoe sizes 7, 8 and 9 (plus 1/2 sizes). He did not want any 10s because he couldn't sell them.

Today, I think typical sizes for women are 8, 9 and 10, and maybe 11, but size 7 is too small.

[Leslie Langford]

What? Perhaps you mean when they were trying to make larger, non-conforming women invisible? I'm pretty sure non-petite women are not a recent invention.

Say what??? How did "they" succeed in "...trying to make larger, non-conforming women invisible..."? Did this involve the assistance of the likes of a David Copperfield, or else a Star Trek-like cloaking device? Point is...there were far fewer of them around in those days compared to now...period.

Steffi is absolutely right. There is an epidemic of obesity going on these days in the Western World because of our addiction to empty-calorie junk food, and it affects both sexes. Did you ever notice when watching actual, real life historical documentaries from, say, WWII, how fit and trim the soldiers on both sides were back then compared to the more beefy current crop? And as for the typical out-of-shape, beer-bellied cops that are so common these days, let's not even go there...

Yes, women as a group are also far heftier than they used to be in the 1950's and earlier, as anyone who has ever walked through a shopping mall can attest to unless, of course, they are being guided by a seeing-eye dog. The average dress size for a woman these days is 14, whereas in the past, it was typically in the single digits. Genetics are also a factor here, and the younger women these days tend to be taller overall than their forebears. Size 10 used to be the normal upper limit for women's shoe sizes in "regular" stores. That has now moved up a notch to Size 11, and Size 12 is also now far more commonplace than it used to be.

So, if you combine the fact that women as a group are far larger than they used to be (both height and weight) and that they are gravitating more and more towards man-style and/or "unisex" type clothing, then yes, the lines between masculine-looking women and feminine- or androgynous-looking males are definitely becoming more blurred these day. That leaves us with facial features and mannerisms as being the final frontiers for us to cross in trying to either blend in or "pass" as women. Here, good makeup is definitely our friend, as are the many YouTube videos on female comportment that are well worth watching for pointers on how to emulate typical female mannerisms that we might otherwise have missed.

All that said, when it comes to "passing", our Asian sisters definitely have an edge over the rest of us with their typically smaller features, shorter statures, and general overall hairlessness. I'm not going to name any names here - you know who they are - but some of our fellow Asian Forum members here are absolute stunners. And if anyone really wants to make their own eyes bug out, all they need to do is watch one of the many YouTube videos featuring crossdressing K-Pop singing and dancing groups which seem to be all the rage there these days.

Talk about "making the boys cry", as our own michelledgg likes to put it.

[Tracii G]

People all over the world seem to be taller these days too and a bit stockier.
I have a close Chinese friend and he is 6'1" so Asians aren't always short in stature.

[kimdl93]

I probably have as many tells as anyone...height, and masculine in shoulders, hands, facial structure throat. I dont even think about passing.

But i do know from trustworthy sources that im not grossly conspicuous either. When directly interacting with anyone, im sure i am considered a transwoman. From a distance no one can be sure.

Also Im not the tallest woman out there and in a country suffering an obesity epidemic, i have managed to stay fit...so some curves are in the right places.

And that’s good enough for me. I am.

[Micki_Finn]

You do know that Marilyn Monroe was a size 16 and by modern standards would be considered a “Plus Size” Steffi?

[Helen_Highwater]

Taylor,

One way people give themselves away is by being furtive, skulking about. Confidence is key. Looking like you belong goes a long way. As said many times, you need to dress appropriately for the time and place. A GG in a ball gown will stand out in a supermarket.

As others have said you need to be careful. Sadly gang beatings and rape are not unheard of in India despite moves made by the judiciary. Goa as I'm sure you're aware is a favorite haunt of young western tourists/backpackers. You're probable safer in areas frequented by them but at the end of the day it's down to you to make those decisions as to where you feel safest.

I really hope it all goes well but please do your homework. Know the place you're going to. Trust your senses. If things feel wrong then they usually are. Time to leave.

[DIANEF]

To pass '100 per cent'?, almost impossible. Even if you look great something will give you away, your voice, big hands, adam's apple, any one of several things. Except for a really tiny minority, anyone who believes they pass completely is utterly self deluded.

[Vicky_Scot]

I don't know about India, but I find a lot of GGs walking around who don't pass as women.

Totally agree with that statement 100%

[Krisi]

I don't know about India, but I find a lot of GGs walking around who don't pass as women.

Totally agree with that statement 100%

Please take a moment to stop and think how insulting that statement is. These "non-passable" women are human beings, somebody's daughter, somebody's sister, somebody's wife and somebody's mother. Perhaps they are not up to your standards but have a little respect and compassion.

[docrobbysherry]

Krisi's rite. But, on the other hand, some women don't care or need to "pass". Why? Because they r women.

The reason many of us want to is because we r NOT!

[Jaylyn]

As already said be careful in India. You look tall and slender and I really think small long boned guys have an advantage over us brutes that are big shouldered and lots of bulky muscle. Your dress looks nice.

[Dana44]

It is best to go out in day and where three is people around. Blending in is best also. I think you look good enough.

[carhill2mn]

Perhaps, the "main reason" that CDs do not "pass" as women is that they have very strong male features. Features such as a large strong body, being tall, having large hands, and feet or a low pitched voice. These things would not seem to be an issue for you. Other things that can be issues are how you walk, how you use your hands, how you move. If you are going to interact directly with others, how you speak can be an issue. Women usually speak differently than men.

Carefully choose where you will go. Sometimes you are less noticeable in a crowd than if there are few people around. Do not sneak around! Act as if you belong there. I do not know how it is in India but a small smile is a great way to help you be accepted as a woman even if you do not pass. Do not do things that will attract attention to yourself. Dressing similar to the people around you is best.

You will, of course, be very nervous when you first go out in public. Try to stay as calm as possible and be aware of what is going on around you. Avoid areas where there could be unfriendly people. Enjoy!

[Jenn A116]

Was interested to read the post about MM's size. Some googling however indicates that she was 5'6" and weighed about 120 lbs. Sounds like a size 4 or 6 today.

[natalie edwards]

Well I was just chatting with a guy on Facebook and he was telling how beautiful I look and how he wants to meet me, etc,etc. Then says " can I ask you something?" Why are so many crossdressers on your page? LOL! I answer because I'm one too! He still doesn't believe me. Then asks if I have man parts. Then he doesn't believe that I do and starts apologizing for saying something wrong thinking I'm making all this up so he goes away! Finally he says he doesn't care if I have one he loves me! OMG! From a 5 minute chat?
So yes pictures can definitely be deceiving.

[kimdl93]

Wow, poor guy. I would guess he has considerable difficulties in developing real world relationships.