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Thread: Why Most Men Still Don't Casually Wear Dresses

  1. #26
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    Sorry my academic mind wouldn’t let me get through the article. It’s started with a supposition based on anecdotal evidence, then casts about for reasoning behind a fact that has not been established.

  2. #27
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Smith View Post
    Interesting observation in the article on the view (wrong in my opinion) that 'real men aren't feminine'. I disagree, I'm widely considered an alpha male, former lumberjack, current biker, married father of three beautifully adjusted adult children, straight, but I have a feminine side, too. I love a mini skirt (on me, in private, on a pretty woman in public), much prefer knickers to pants (yep, British) and adore a neglige in private - for me and them. How's it that handing over power?
    Former lumberjack?

    OMG! I don't suppose YOU were the one the Pythons based their famous song on?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZa26_esLBE

    Nah! Couldn't be...

  3. #28
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    All I can say is that the last time my wife blasted me about my crossdressing, her attire looked completely masculine. Just because a shirt buttons on the female side does not make it feminine.

    I figured pointing out the irony would just be digging my gave deeper...

  4. #29
    Member Charona's Avatar
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    Every so often a fashion designer will bring forth a collection of skirts for men. The models will walk down the runway showing the skirts, the media will cover the event, and little more will be heard of it. The skirts will not sell, both because few men are interested and because like most new fashions the garments are outrageously expensive.

    One thing to notice is that those skirts do not make their wearers look like women. Instead the wearers are clearly MIADs. This would appear to limit the appeal to crossdressers wanting to "pass". It might also limit the appeal to crossdressers because the garments are designed for men and are thus not really women's clothing.

    By the way, men still wear skirts. The part of a suit jacket, or a raincoat, or a winter coat, below the waist is accurately called its skirt.

  5. #30
    Aspiring Artist Kelly DeWinter's Avatar
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    Susan , that's the crux of most society's view women and be feminine or masculine and a combination, but men cannot. I may be wrong but by far the most physical,emotional and spiritual abuse is heaped on men who are perceived as feminine at all.
    Kelly DeWinter
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  6. #31
    Senior Member BrendaPDX's Avatar
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    An interesting article, thanks for recommending it, it was a good read. I don't agree with all of it, but it isn't a thesis or a medical journal, just a point of view or observation. Thanks, I had fun reading it, and the comments; good thread.

  7. #32
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    I won't be around, but I predict that a hundred years from now, if we haven't blown ourselves up, men will still be wearing pants and women will still be wearing skirts and dresses.
    Krisi

  8. #33
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    Peer pressure mostly.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  9. #34
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
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    Peer pressure implies that men would like to wear dresses and/or skirts as a matter of course. They don't.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  10. #35
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    This is my opinion only:
    When the majority of women wear pants/jeans, they buy them in the women's department, they are not trying to fool others into thinking they are women. They don't try to disguise their voices, use fake names, use fake beards, etc. The norm in society now is: women wear pants. Over 50 years ago, it was not the norm. It took a while and a lot of women wearing pants for it to become commonplace.

    This opinion is for CDer's only, does not pertain to trans. The problem that I see with men is that at the current time, there are no skirts or dresses specifically made for men that are sold in the men's department. Yes, there are fashion models of men wearing skirts but I haven't seen them in stores yet. So, if men did buy skirts and did not try to "pass as women" but as a man wearing a skirt, if lots of men flocked to the stores to buy skirts (as women did in the 50's & 60's to buy pants), and if men were comfortable being a man in a skirt, not trying to fool anyone with fake names, fake hair, fake boobs, and all that stuff, maybe CDers would not feel so out of place.

    My question to CDers only is that if men in skirts and dresses were commonplace, would it be as much fun for you as it is now? If you didn't try to fool anyone into "acceptance", would it be as thrilling? Or would you just be happy that you don't have to hide (if you do hide)?
    Last edited by char GG; 04-26-2018 at 10:31 PM.

  11. #36
    @--}----- Sissy_Michelle's Avatar
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    Candice,

    I really liked this article. It touched on how society looks at people. How we’re brought up into the gender roles that are defined by the village norms. Something I didn’t care for was how most people have to label someone. “He’s gay because he wears a dress.” Or their example using the word “queer”, though I don’t believe queer had the same meaning back in the 1930s. The English language in the America’s has gotten lazy, we don’t speak like we did back then words have changed in their meanings or not used at all.

    Because I am still in the closet, and can only fully dress on certain occasions and times. When I am home alone I don’t mistake what I reach for to dress in, I usually dress for the work that needs to be done. Not saying that I shouldn’t cut grass in a skirt or sun dress, just that I can definitely minimize the amount of bug bites if I am wearing jeans. But often enough I am doing housework or kicking back reading in a dress or skirt and oversized sweat top.

    I sent the article to a couple of ladies that know I crossdress and asked for their opinion on the article. I am sure we will have a great discussion on it.

    @—}——-
    Michelle

  12. #37
    Member Chloe St Clair's Avatar
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    Char GG,

    You asked a good question.

    Obviously I can't speak for anyone else. For me, however, I don't wear dresses for fun.

    Yes, I enjoy wearing dresses, but it's because I feel comfortable wearing them, and I like the way I look when I'm wearing a dress, hose and heels.

    You may be wondering, what about the rest? The make up, and the wig? Yes, I wear them, too. It's part of the package of what is necessary for me to look like a woman.

    Right or wrong it's what society expects, at least for today. When the general public sees someone wearing a dress, they expect for that person to look like a woman. So because I have no desire to be accosted, ridiculed or humiliated, I'm willing to do what is needed to present as a woman.

    If it were possible for me wake up tomorrow and choose to put on dress, stockings and heels then head off to work, (sans makeup, fake boobs, wig,) and know that when I arrived at the office, I'd be greeted by my coworkers as though it were completely normal, and acceptable, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

  13. #38
    Member Shayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly DeWinter View Post
    Nice article.

    Just from my experience and observations it kind of boils down to It's OK in western society for women not to conform, but for men it's about conformity ...... or else.
    I think a lot of women would disagree with your perception that it's OK for them not to conform.

  14. #39
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    Char,
    It's really irrelevant who you pose that question to because the whole question isn't that straight forward , some float from one state to another, to say some are just CDers means very little, we wear the clothes for different and varied reasons as time passes our needs change . I can't say the thrill has totally gone but some days I forget I'm dressed . Some people have commented they're not women's clothes they're my clothes I'm beginning to appreciate that comment now . I feel more comfortable dressed, choosing clothes changes as we evolve like any woman needs to learn the ropes on deciding what goes with what . It's not a case of fooling anyone but looking good the same way a woman would want to , OK some of us can't have our own hair styled but we can choose a suitable wig and take care with makeup, it's no more fake than many women . Looking good as a female is far more enjoyable than being male and yes it is more fun , women can conjure up so many looks with clothes and makeup a man has very few choices . OK the downside is what is associated with some male behaviour when dressed which is something very rarely considered in women .

  15. #40
    Silver Member LilSissyStevie's Avatar
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    The idea that the reason alpha males kick sand in the face of betas (apparently under orders from The Patriarchy™) is to enforce the gender binary doesn't age well. Actually, it's more likely alphas want to kick betas out of the gender binary and keep them out, to keep them "in their place" so to speak. Alphas don't really want or need competition for desirable women. And desirable women decide what qualities are desirable in men not The Patriarchy™.

  16. #41
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    It is pretty simple.

    1. Most men (the overwhelming majority) have no desire to wear skirts or dresses or anything traditionally feminine. It just does not appeal to most men, at all.
    2. If women found men in dresses sexually attractive, men would be wearing dresses. Women do not find men in dresses sexually attractive (outside of TV fiction), so men do not wear them. Men will dress, or not dress, in a way women find attractive, because most men are straight and want women to find them attractive. If all women want to wear pants only, men will have to go along because men have a strong desire/need for women; women are not as desperate for men as men are for women.

  17. #42
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes_miss View Post
    Oh come on now. This isn't that complicated, and we've gone over this all many times before. Women are generally sexually turned off by femininity in a male; don't believe me? How many women go out and buy their male mate a frilly nitegown? Virtually zero.

    So it's in men's best interest to avoid any feminine accoutrements or behavior like the plague if he wishes to be sexually desirable to females. Sure, YOU might find ONE woman out of ten million that will accept her man being 'girly'. But it's not common at all...
    Good point, Lexi, but funny how it doesn't seem to work the other way...

    As we all know, men are highly visual creatures, and are typically attracted to a female first and foremost by their physical appearance and to what degree that conforms to their particular vision of the "ideal woman". It is hard-wired into our brains and the way biology and 100,000+ years of evolution have shaped us. When was the last time you heard a guy exclaim - upon first setting eyes upon a gorgeous woman - "Wow, I bet there is a fine, highly intelligent mind, a wonderful, agreeable personality, and a great sense of humor lurking beneath that smokin' hot body!"? Right!

    It's also the reason why porn, strip clubs, burlesque shows, "girly" magazines, and the sex trade exist.

    Think about it - how many "real" men are visually turned on by women in sweats, jogging pants, track suits, leggings, jeggings, hair lazily done up in ponytails and hidden under a ball cap, and wearing runners, flip-flops, Birkenstocks, or the like. Not too many, I'd wager.

    And you know what? Most women don't seem to give a rat's @ss about that, since that manner of dressing has become the norm for them. Yet somehow, they get away with it, whereas for men the corresponding bar for maintaining a "masculine" image (and I'm not just talking about the clothes) is so much higher in order to remain attractive to them.

    Go figure.

  18. #43
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    Lexi,
    I don't totally agree , we estimate about 25% of the wives / partners attend our social groups , all are happy to help the Cders out everyone I've spoken to are OK with the home life in this situation. So if that's an average throughout the CDing groups that is a considerable figure of acceptance .
    You're using a subset of women who stayed with their partner once knowing that he's a crossdresser, and were willing to go with him to support groups as an example of what percentage of women in the general population who will accept a crossdresser as a mate? That's perhaps the greatest stretch that I've ever heard of.

    Then again, I don't live in the UK. Perhaps you have a huge percentage of women over there that LOVE men who crossdress. But we don't have that situation here in the U.S..

    Quote Originally Posted by char GG View Post
    My question to CDers only is that if men in skirts and dresses were commonplace, would it be as much fun for you as it is now? If you didn't try to fool anyone into "acceptance", would it be as thrilling? Or would you just be happy that you don't have to hide (if you do hide)?
    It would depend upon why we dress; for each, it's different. It's not 'fun' nor 'thrillling' for me to wear woman's clothing. It just feels normal, where as wearing men's clothes does not.
    The example I usually use is, suppose you're at a formal event. Everyone else in the place is wearing tuxedos or evening gowns, but you're in a bathing suit. Do you feel just a bit uncomfortable? probably, and it won't matter if that bathing suit is gender appropriate or not.
    That's how I feel when dressed as a male; there's always that constant feeling that I'm not wearing what I'm supposed to. When I'm dressed as a girl, I feel normal. What's more, I know why I feel this way. Sure, it took me decades to figure it all out, and of course, I wasn't happy with what I found out. But at least the confusion and (most of) the guilt about doing it was gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie Langford View Post
    Good point, Lexi, but funny how it doesn't seem to work the other way...
    I don't think it's unusual at all. There are usually good reasons why we do things, and if we spend enough time, we can figure it out. One of the biggest problems that we have here, is that most men would be horrified to find out that they have any homosexual desires. It's not their fault; we were all raised to believe that any man who has sexual feelings for anything other than completely straight sex, is a terrible person. Doesn't even matter if we learn it's not true. There's often always a lingering feeling of guilt because it was drummed into our heads so very much when we were growing up.
    It's also the reason why porn, strip clubs, burlesque shows, "girly" magazines, and the sex trade exist.
    I firmly believe that straight men get at least a little pleasure in just looking at a sexually attractive female; it keeps our attention focused on her despite any distractions, and makes it more likely that we will go after her and try to have sex with her. The urge to reproduce overpowers almost anything for us. Get a man close to orgasm and he will continue having intercourse to completion even as he hears a woman's husband pulling into the driveway.

    Think about it - how many "real" men are visually turned on by women in sweats, jogging pants, track suits, leggings, jeggings, hair lazily done up in ponytails and hidden under a ball cap, and wearing runners, flip-flops, Birkenstocks, or the like. Not too many, I'd wager.
    If they accentuate the female form, or signal to us somehow that she is fertile (young, 70% waist hip ratio, clear skin, healthy hair) yes, we'll be interested. Yoga pants are considered sort of exercise wear by women. But the fact that they accentuate the female shape is what does it for us. Well, that and the fact they reveal every 'nook and cranny' of her body, too.

    And you know what? Most women don't seem to give a rat's @ss about that, since that manner of dressing has become the norm for them. Yet somehow, they get away with it
    Because at our core, what we care about most, is getting to have sex with her. For >99.9999% of our existance in history, men increase their likelyhood of passing along our dna by the sheer number of women we have sex with. We might care about anything else after the sex act is over, or, after she gets pregnant. We're hard wired to remain interested in a woman for just long enough to get her pregnant, her to have the kid, and that kid to get up on it's feet. This is most likely why there's a cutoff of approximately 30 months when people start to see their mate for who they truly are. Up until then, we often happily ignore any faults that they have, as we remain in a horny fog. We also start to lose interest in THAT woman, and start to find others more attractive, over time. So the seven year itch is also a very real phenomenon. Another interesting fact is that men tend to think of women as they were when we first met them, rather than how they appear later, which is why we stay with them as they age. It's not uncommon at all for a man to not know exactly how his wife looked or dressed should she be out of his sight, should she disappear, whereas women know exactly what their husband was wearing, how his hair was combed, etc.. None of this is my original thinking, all compliments of the hundreds of psychology books I've read over the years.

    whereas for men the corresponding bar for maintaining a "masculine" image (and I'm not just talking about the clothes) is so much higher in order to remain attractive to them.
    Women have higher expectations for their mates, because it's more important for the survival of their offspring. It's been said that women are thinking long term whenever they look for a mate; they want alpha male genes for their child. This is reinforced by a study that found women have a slight preference for alpha males when they are ovulating, and beta males that might make good fathers, when they're not. It's not definitive, but there's some truth to it. Next time you strike out with a woman, wait two weeks and try again. We don't know if this is due to women finding a man who is persistant more attractive than one who is not (displaying an aggressive drive to succeed) but there definitely is something to that line of thinking. More studies need to be done, and, I find it interesting that this technique works more often than I would have thought.

    Go figure.
    Ahhhhh, the fascination of the female mind!
    Last edited by sometimes_miss; 04-29-2018 at 04:01 PM.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

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