Avatars

[DaisyLawrence]

My avatar is me. It may change occasionally but it will always be me. I like to think you want to know who you are talking to so that is why it is a picture of me. In an ideal world you would all have pictures of yourselves so I know who I am talking to as well BUT I realise the world is not ideal for all. I realise that many here can not risk an avatar of themselves due to being closeted or whatever perfectly justifiable reason. I also see that some who do not want a public 'real' avatar have kindly put a picture of themselves on their profile (only visible to members) so that is appreciated but I still understand that some can not do that either. I do find it surpising sometimes that some of the most vocal critics of closeted crossdressers that post frequently about their transgender everyday life are also some of those not prepared to show us who we are talking to (kind of makes it hard to believe them) but that is a rabbit hole I don't want to go down.

So why this thread? Well it has recently come to my attention that some people with an avatar of a female human being, that I have understandably assumed was them, have in fact been using a picture of someone else. This is misleading. Heated debates about such subjects as 'passing' or 'MIADS' have taken place while I assume I was reading the words of the most passable 20 something year old crossdresser in the world when it turns out they are the words of someone entirely different altogether. I have two problems here. Firstly is that the membership are being misled, possibly not deliberately or with mischievous intent but misled all the same. Secondly, I wonder where do they get these pictures from, a general internet search for someone pretty perhaps? Do the people in the image know that they are the public face of a crossdresser? Could someone who kows this person see the picture and thereby assume them to be a member here and all the stuff they have posted to be the words of that person? Do they even have permission to use this persons image for their avatar? Lots of questions to which I do not know the answer but potentially serious food for thought. It is entirely possible that the law could be being broken in such cases. Just using the image of a famous person for example is not defense in itself as this is an international forum open to all ages and cultures and a famous face to you or I may be just another person to someone else.

So what to do? Well I am wondering if there should be a rule that your avatar is either yourself OR something that no-one could assume is yourself (just about anything that isn't a picture of a real person). Or maybe, if someone insists on using an image of someone else, they should at least say on the tag line beneath that it is not them in the avatar.

Looking forward to your opinions.

[Teresa]

Daisy,
I'm inclined to agree with you on this point, I admit I was scared the first time I posted avatar picture . I suddenly became known not to a few in the UK but all round the English speaking World . All my pictures have been totally unretouched pictures of me not even Photoshopped , I prefer to see the face behind the text but as you say not always possible. OK the forum does give their alternative choices but what about the implications of using the image of someone else , you could be right no one as far as I'm aware has been asked tp change their image . I'm not sure if the forum management do police these issues and attempt to correct in case they run into litigation problems .

I've also found some who do cause problems and only join with an axe to grind don't submit pictures then for obvious reasons they wouldn't. I will add that some of the social media sites and other forum types are far too agressive in their tone, they are anonymous and make full use of it , that's why i stay well clear of them , if you have something to say do it face to face and don't hide behind the internet smokescreen .

So does it need to change and how do we do it ? If it was a more private forum the threat would be far less and part of the joining process might be submitting a true likeness of a member dressed either male of female, I had to reword that forgetting that we have a F/M section . So then the forum wouldn't exist without relying on a subsciption/ donation, how many members here would still join on that basis . I guess we have what we have , it's evolved into the current structure and for most it works, OK you will always find some people who will abuse and take advantage I'm afraid that is just human nature .

[DaisyLawrence]

Teresa.

You are correct about many people making full use of the anonymous nature of the internet in general and it is a destructive freedom for sure. However, I don't wont this thread to open the can of worms about anonimity in general as I fully understand why many (if not most) members here may need the protection it affords. I merely want to question the misleading use of someone else's image in a manner that others would be expected to assume it is the member in question.

Daisy

[suzy1]

Some of us will never be able to provide a picture of the real us here that looks anything like convinsing. So I do understand why some members choose a picture of the woman they would want to look like. We do live in a sort of fantasy world in a way?
My picture is the real me by the way.

[Teresa]

Daisy,
Is it worth asking admin what their policy is on this issue as they could run into litigation problems with members doing this .

I guess we mislead all the time with our presentation , only we ask it as the question do we pass ? I must admit I've had some interesting PMs about the appearance of some members, we know for sure that it's not the person in the picture. As we've discussed before the internet has opened up a can of worms on copyright issues , you would need the Bank of England behind you to take some of them on ! It's why I closed my business down, digital and the internet killed quality, honesty and dignity .

[DaisyLawrence]

Interesting point about using a picture of the 'woman they would like to be' Suzy. In that case, if that fantasy is important to them, then a disclaimer in the tag line would solve any confusion. You see I want to be a 21 year old 'Holly Golightly' lookalike but if I used that sort of image then the readers wouldn't reallise that they were actually speaking with the world weary wise old hag that I am

[Teresa]

Oh Daisy what does that make me ?? No don't say I wouldn't like it !!

As for the fantasy aspect yes I agree they should use a disclaimer , I have to admit I'm happy being me OK some think I live in a fantasy World , I don't think I do I'm just going a little senile !!

[suzy1]

they were actually speaking with the world weary wise old hag that I am

A world weary old hag you are not my friend.

[alwayshave]

To start, my avatar is me. I don't have a problem of an avatar that is a stock photo of some model/movie star that is the member's fantasy. However, a photo of your next door neighbor or another CDer who's permission you do not have to use, that's a problem.

[DaisyLawrence]

Jamie. Indeed but as I said, many people around the world have no idea that famous face model/movie star is in fact a famous face so just assume it is the members image. In India, Bollywood stars are very famous but I wouldn't know one from Adam.

Suzy: You are too kind, no seriously, too kind!

[Queen Bridget]

I'm both too ugly and closeted to use my myself as an avatar. So I leave it blank. (I may do in the future if I pluck up some courage).

I don't really have a problem with people using random pics as their avatar. As long as they don't claim that it's them.

On most forums I go to (like gaming forums), people use all kinds of random stuff as their avatar. So it never occurred to me that your ava on here needed to be a picture of yourself.

[Tamsin Secret]

Before I was confident enough I had a picture of some lipstick covered puckered lips! For me personally it was an aspiration to have my own pic there. I did use a pic then chickened out and removed to then post another. It's a big decision to put your picture out there. But I suppose that's the side of the fence I fall, if it's a picture that has a face that face should be yours.

I'm not judge or jury, that's just my opinion. Each to their own.

Tammy

[Beverley Sims]

After long reading here I find most are truthful about their avatars, I obviously look like Mickey Mouse, in this case it is a place I have visited I do change it from time to time.

When I am traveling it can be daily.

Those that live in deceit probably have comfort in that.

[Teresa]

Bev,
I enjoyed the change of avatars when you did your last trip , I miss them, something new almost everyday . When's the next one planned ?

Can you believe I'm a photographer without a decent camera at the moment so you're stuck with my avatar for the the time being .

[Micki_Finn]

Even if the photo IS of the person, things like Photoshop and Facetune are so widely available, how can you tell what’s real anyway? I figure that this isn’t a dating site, so what does it matter what someone looks like? As far as I know, no one on this site has used a picture that wasn’t them AND furthered the lie through their posts. I generally judge everyone by their words here anyway, so the only time I really even look at pics is when someone pints theirs out in their post.

In fact, I’d say that because there are people here willing to judge the validity of ones statements based on their physical appearance tells me that there is a very good reason to not post real pics of oneself.

[Stacy Darling]

Ok, so my avatar is me, I actually started here as a piece of graphic art, but the Darwin Effect is another story!

So is my avatar really me and is your avatar really you? If so, hooking up would be nice?

But wait, beauty is only skin deep and our mind cannot be seen into by others. That's questionable as well!

Maybe the avatar is that of the real member but the words are not from said members mouth!

Is it my avatar & beautiful body that some see or my slightly misinterpreting and misunderstood mind!

I wrote that,
Stacy!

[Krea]

Daisy you make a very good point.
I am not ready to post a picture of myself here yet so i just use a cartoon avatar to brighten up my profile. (For those of you who haven't already guessed, i do not actually look like this. ) I hope one day to have the confidence to post a photo' of myself, but if/when i do it will be a real picture of me. I wouldn't want to use a photo' of another person, it would feel like cheating.
I assume that using someone else's photo' without their permission is not permitted.

[DaisyLawrence]

Micki:

I never suggested that anyone 'judge the validity of ones statements based on their physical appearance' did I? I simply suggested that if a member does choose to use a picture of a person (that it may reasonably be assumed by other members is the member concerned) then if it is of someone else then it might be appropriate to indicate as such. Age is particularly relevant here. If a member chooses not to display their age and use an avatar of an 18 year old girl, I would not expect to be conversing with a 75 year old with more crossdressing or trans experience than anyone else on the forum. It allways helps to put a face to the words if, and only if, the member concerned is able to do that.

Krea:

You'll get there I'm sure

Stacy:

Was your last avatar of you? I remember a very pretty woman. I assumed it was you. Are you a case in point then?

[mattea]

Hello everyone! This is an interesting debate, furthermore everyone has been respectful of the issue the world would be a better place if everyone could debate issues with such manner and respect! - I love this place.

As for me, I think that I see it as if you post an avatar of yourself, great! If you don't, that is OK too, but people should never mislead or claim what is not theirs. I take each avatar with a grain of salt and apply a bit of common sense. I mean when someone's avatar is a cartoon character or emoji its OK right? For me I have a thing for black and white pictures (can you tell?) I think they just have a sense of class. I haven't done much to tune mine up other than to apply maybe an automatic filter just to make it look a bit smoother. Hey a girl sometimes wants to look her best when in company right? There are so many beautiful and wonderful people here.

If someone put up a picture with the intent of deception I would not like it either and then in that case I would not really want to follow what that person has to say. Again if that person truly deceived you and did not do anything to make it right then I am with you in frustration, however some people don't have the confidence to do the right thing. As for applying some type of rule to this forum as far as your avatar goes, that is a slippery slope, our community and sisterhood is only as strong as our weakest link and if we start applying rules without careful consideration we might limit those who want to be part of this great convergence, and therefore weaken our foundation. I think the best course of action is encourage honesty, integrity and respect, call it out when it is done with less than good intentions, and accept those who may not be fully comfortable to share just yet or those who are not capable to do so. It took me a long time to build the confidence to put my face in this forum, and I am happy that I have done it, but again for others they are just now discovering themselves and might not be there or may never be there. I am not a fan of the saying "to each their own" it just sounds weird to me, but I guess it does apply here.

All you wonderful ladies have made great points and appreciate the opportunity to give my two cents on this!

Mattea

[Stacy Darling]

I actually did have one human avatar which wasn't me, I don't do brunette but can be Asian so if I looked Asian it was me, I had a picture somewhere of what my beautician called my character, which I model myself off. Most likely that one once!

So If I have used one it would to me have been the essence of Stacy, a creation, or what I seriously aim to look like!

I'm I Boy v Girl anyhow aren't I ? I'm somewhere more than once!

I'm starting to think that you might be interested after all?

At least you can tell I wrote that & I need a new avatar cos I'm heaps hotter than that!

Stacy!

[Tracy Irving]

I take everything I read and see on the internet as 100% true, factual and realistic. Lol.

That said, when you get old like me, you end up expanding the text to fit the screen (just to read it), missing out on all the lovely pictures anyway.

[Tracii G]

It makes no difference to me what people use as an avatar.
Trying to make a rule on what you can use or what you have to use is just restrictive.
I see your point but just because you or I don't like something doesn't mean we have the right to tell others what they can and cannot do.
My avatar and profile pic are me because I wanted to post them.
I do like to see who I am talking to as well.

[susan54]

I am one of the faceless ones. There are no pictures of me dressed as a woman on the internet and it will stay that way unless I get papped in the street by someone who enjoys causing trouble for crossdressers by posting their picture on some dodgy website like People of Walmart. When I joined this site there was no prospect of facial recognition software and now we have it.

The 'pictures or it didn't happen' threads are putting pressure on others to provide pics of people who might not want to provide them. It makes me happy to see evidence that other men look good in women's clothes but I don't feel entitled to see this. And there are some who do not look so good but they are just as entitled to dress as they want. We are not entitled to judge anyone by how they look unless it is their intention to be judged. Man in dress - no problem. Man in KKK outfit = problem. Woman who looks awful in dress = no problem, woman wearing fur coat at PETA meeting = gratuitous offence.

As for wanting to know who you are talking to, most of the people on this site look completely different (i.e. male) most of the time. In reality the person you are reading stuff from is male. So why do you need to see a female version of them - so you can judge how convincing a woman they make? Reality again - a man can look like a supermodel but if he walks like a warthog he is going to give the show away in 3 seconds and you would never know that from a photograph.

I suppose I could post a picture of me from the back or the neck down ... but I really don't want to do even that.

[sometimes_miss]

Hmmmmm. Hey, Daisy, why are you hiding behind sunglasses? Someone else might look like you while wearing their sunglasses, don't you worry that THEY might be taken as a crossdresser? I guess not.

I make no claims that my avatar pic is an accurate picture of myself; it's what I wish I looked like. My avatar model does kink site modeling and porn, and I purchased the dress design that she is seen wearing in my avatar pic. Potentially being mistaken for a crossdresser would probably be the least objectionable of potential problems, but anyone who employs her already knows that she is a GG. That said, with that body, there's no way that anyone in their right mind would mistake her for a MTF crossdresser if they really started searching her down.

Besides, if you don't like the avatar pictures, simply don't look at them. See how easy! And maybe stop being such a grump looking for things to complain about. Life is too short.

[Victoria_Winters]

Daisy,

It’s intresting what you are saying. I’ve been a forum lurker and avid poster on many a forum. I think that it depends of the forum your on. A forum like this one where it’s more of a community of real people than you should use a picture of your self or some other random thing. I know there are a lot of there That are not ready to come out or like myself cannot come out with out some pretty severe consequences such as lose of career/retirement.

Some forums like game forums i think avatars of your character is best. I used to hang out on a forum for a tv show I loved and it was customary to use pictures of the characters as avatars. So in the end I think it depends on the forum subject. On a forum like our little community here I wouldn’t use a picture of someone else unless it was some long like a TV show character or some crazy famous person that everyone knows that you are not. Well that’s my two cents anyway. I use an app to make my profile pic for forums that aren’t game dedicated.