How accepting would YOU be?

[Rhonda Jean]

Reading Teresa's post about being out to her old friends made me think... How would you, or you and your wife react to an old friend coming out? We expect a lot of compassion and tolerance from people, but would we be so compassionate and accepting? Would it depend on who it was. Would it depend on what they looked like or how well they passed?

There's a repetitive theme on here where somebody (usually somebody who just joined and has less than 50 posts) comes out to their wife/mother/girlfriend/sister/aunt/daughter/coworker and they're all excited and want to do their makeup and take them shopping. I haven't tried coming out like this, so I don't know for a fact how it would go for me, but I'm betting my experience would not be so stellar.

I'm trying to imagine if my old business partner, my dad, my brother, my neighbor, came out to me. To be totally honest, I'm not sure I'd be the poster child for open acceptance. I think my level of acceptance would probably be as carefully crafted as my own level of "outness". It would greatly depend on who it was and where we'd go or be seen. This all being from my male perspective. On here, I'm always most amazed at the positive stories of acceptance, tolerance, and compassion. I tend to expect the negative. Honestly, again, my level of acceptance would depend largely on how they looked and how well they passed, and how they conducted themselves publicly and privately (this kind of goes for how I choose friends in general, not just those that wear dresses).

That said, the times are changing, changing fast, and in a big way. I think there'll always be pockets of hardened intolerance, but they're dwindling, giving way to apathy and apathy giving way to tolerance. I'd be different about it with an old friend than I would my son or some other child or young person. I am and have been openly tolerant of this in young people, and would certainly be accepting of my own sons.

So, how could I, being who/what I am for my entire life ever be anything but enthusiastically accepting? I'm not saying I feel great about being that way, but I do think it important to be honest about it. I'm a work in progress.

[Sallee]

I would be accepting and encouraging, but also I would attempt to talk sense into the newly out person about discretion and to where they are going. I certainly wouldn't encourage transitioning or going full time until they have been out for a while. Then I would be non committal but thats me and how I deal with my own CDing, which is I am in the closet but the door is open. If some one asks or is questioning I'll come out other than that it is my secret.
To each there own enjoy life and do what makes you happy

[Victoria_Winters]

I am accepting. Well before I got into CD I had a friend that did often. And publicly. He was cool to hang out with. His humor was pretty good and didn’t care what ppl though. He rocked his beard with a skirt.

[AllieSF]

I would be totally accepting and supportive of their coming out. However, that does not mean I would immediately invite them into my house. That might take some thought and discussion with them. Seeing them in someone else's house dressed oppositely from their birth gender would also be no problem. As you state, it depends on how they present themselves and maybe even how they comported themselves when out in public in a liberated mind sort of way, i.e. do they dress and do their makeup way over the top. All that would take a wait and see process, hopefully including a lot of good conversations with the newly out person. I would express my truthful opinion to them, as they deserve honesty from friends, as well as support.

I would openly support that person in conversation with their other friends who may be questioning their own support to that friend. In doing that I would also offer my honest opinions if needed as to how they may be presenting. I do not see someone's support of that person as in any way indicating that they themselves may be doing the same thing in private, i.e. that they also dress as the opposite gender. Could it be that some of your own concerns are related to how it reflects on you? In my case I am out to everyone, so they already know that I have transgender friends from across the identity spectrum. I recommend you look at your own fears and try to prevent them from influencing you from being a good friend to those that are your friends. They deserve that as much as you do.

[Tracy Irving]

Honestly, again, my level of acceptance would depend largely on how they looked and how well they passed

I look forward to the day when men don't have to hide behind make up and a wig (trying to "pass") and can wear women's clothing and still gain acceptance from some cross dressers.

[Rachelakld]

I have a work mate who came out as gay, that was fine but when one of the hot office girls came out as gay, as much as I wanted to date her, I decided not much point.
My gay work mate however, even talked me into checking out a gay club with him, tried to get me into a 3 some with him and a hot blond.
While we haven't worked together for the last 10 years, when we do bump into each other we both hug and catch up.
At one of his birthday parties, I think there were about 12 gays, 8 trans with 3 of them being girlie girl (more fem that anyone on the planet)
It was a fun party until someone did a porn search on his computer.

[DaisyLawrence]

How could any member of this forum be anything other than totally 100% accepting of a friend/colleage/relative coming out as a crossdresser regardless of their chosen presentation? Rhonda, by stating your level of acceptance would depend on how well they passed is quite simply shocking and hypocritical and that attitude has no place in the mind of a crossdresser. How can we expect the general public to accept us if we can't accept ourselves? The bottom line is that you are saying you would accept them if they passed. Well I have news for you, someone who passes as a real woman is not out as a crossdresser, in the eyes of the public those that pass 100% are, by definition, a real woman. Oh dear.

[Helen_Highwater]

Rhonda,

I would be 100% accepting. Anything less would be hypocritical. Where I can see issues is in discussions with others less tolerant.

Defending them and by inference yourself, could call for a bit of backbone. I hope I'd come up to the mark. In reality there is also a world of difference between having a one on one discussion in private with the person outing themselves and say going for a beer with them dressed down your local pub.

Having said that I see no difference in how we must pick our venues in order to stay safe while we're dressed.

[alwayshave]

Rhonda, I think of my parents who are uber Catholic, but accept their two gay grandchildren (not equivalent, but goes to acceptance). I'm pretty sure that I would be accepting.

[SaraLin]

h-m-m-m

I've been friends with people who were gay, lesbian, straight, MIAD, trans, nerds, republicans, rocket scientists, etc. etc.

I'm more interested in the person than the wrappings, so if someone I knew 'came out' to me, I might be surprised - but it's no worse than finding out that they like catsup on their eggs (for me, it's a big yuck, but some people like it. So hey, whatever flips your skirt)

How could I possibly give any less than I'd like to receive?

[Vickie_CDTV]

Take claims of warm, enthusiastic acceptance (on this site or anywhere else in the trans community) with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to family and wife acceptance. Not saying that isn't actually the came for some, but still take most claims with a grain of salt. I have been in the trans community for a long time, it isn't always as rosy as some think at the time they come out.

[DIANEF]

Although it hasn't happened yet I would like to think I would be fully accepting of someone coming out to me about being CD-TS ect. I used to know a co worker (though only as that) who did a part time drag act and I'm pretty sure his dressing wasn't just confined to the stage. All the girls I worked with loved him!

[Elizabeth G]

I typically don't deal in hypotheticals but I honestly feel I would be very accepting regardless of how good they looked or how passable they were. Perhaps this is due to my being out to a few people and having experienced differing levels of support or perhaps it's just the way I am but as I said, I doubt I would have a problem withit.

[Rachelish]

Rhonda

My initial reaction to your post was to agree that one can't take our immediate acceptance of someone else coming out for granted 100%. However, I then tried this out (in my head) for a range of relatives, colleagues, friends (and foes) and found my likely reaction to all of them positive. Indeed, many of them went up in my estimation

How well someone presents themselves is perhaps a separate issue. That may or may not influence my opinion of them regardless of whether they were out. Similarly, the reactions of others to our own position is coming from an entirely different perspective, and the reactions are less likely to be as positive.

[Stacy Darling]

How accepting would I be?

I understand acceptance a lot more clearly than I do non-acceptance! so lean heavily to the accepting side!

I would hope to never think that we should all be as accepting though, We are all our own selves and think in our own way...

Stacy

[Beverley Sims]

I have had a couple of friends of mine tell me they're gay.

I didn't give a stuff, and congratulated them.

My only rule was they do not pat me on the bum.

We can make gay and off colour jokes with each other, and I accept their observations of other males without incident.

[bridget thronton]

I would accept them and not great them any differently than before the reveal

[Ceera]

20 years or so ago, a guy I knew at work came out as a transgender woman. Such things were not as common or acceptable at that time, and we were in central Texas - in a rather liberal town, but still not a great place to be ‘out’. I was still deeply repressed myself, thinking of my own path as being just a bisexual male trying to live a straight and monogamous life. My wife was probably the only person in town who knew I was bi, and she knew I was faithful to her and not acting on those impulses. The closest I came to CD activities myself was on-line roleplaying with female avatars for myself, more often than not.

I first knew this trans person as a tall, slender guy who had a wife and a couple of kids at home, but we were not close enough for me to have met their family. We were both desktop computer repair techs at a large semiconductor manufacturing company. I would say that over 90% of the people in our job classification at that company were males. Though we worked for different departments, and usually in different parts of the worksite, all of us computer techs knew each other to some extent, and we would run into each other at least a few times every week.

Then she changed the name on her company ID badge to “Samantha”, and started wearling women’s low heeled shoes and slacks and blouses to work. Skirts and higher heels were impractical with the work we did. She couldn’t wear much makeup at work, because our jobs required going into a ‘clean room’ manufacturing area occasionally, with stronger restrictions than an operating room at a hospital. She had pretty long hair already, but didn’t wear breast forms or other padding. So she didn’t pass all that well, until her breasts began to fill in well after she started HRT. Some of our coworkers made off-color comments about her, or avoided her.

I simply accepted the change, and talked to her more, to understand what she was going through better. I made it clear to her that I would treat her the same as I always had, and I did. I even told her about my female roleplaying, though I said back then that I doubted I would ever change my own real-life gender. I have to admit, I wasn’t very vocal in support of her with my co-workers, but that was mostly because they were not that strongly opposed to her anyway, and our company policies protected lgbtq people from discrimination, even back then. My wife’s immediate reaction was questioning how it would negatively impact Samantha’s wife and kids. I told my wife I didn’t know if Samantha’s wife accepted the change or not, but apparently she did, since Samantha never mentioned a breakup or divorce. But that gave me a heads-up for later that my wife was very unlikely to accept similar changes in me.

[Aunt Kelly]

So is the question "How accepting would I be?" or is it "How accepting would I have been?"

I am not ashamed to admit that for much of my life, I suffered from the same fear and ignorance of TG issues that still pervade our society. Yes, this despite knowing that I was "this way" since an early age. So, no. I would not have been as supportive then as I am now. Now, having lived long enough to gain a little wisdom about many things, I could be nothing but supportive.

[Rhonda Jean]

How could any member of this forum be anything other than totally 100% accepting of a friend/colleage/relative coming out as a crossdresser regardless of their chosen presentation? Rhonda, by stating your level of acceptance would depend on how well they passed is quite simply shocking and hypocritical and that attitude has no place in the mind of a crossdresser. How can we expect the general public to accept us if we can't accept ourselves? The bottom line is that you are saying you would accept them if they passed. Well I have news for you, someone who passes as a real woman is not out as a crossdresser, in the eyes of the public those that pass 100% are, by definition, a real woman. Oh dear.

This is the reaction I expected, and I respect that. My OP was introspective and honest. I'm not exactly proud of it, nor do I think that's the way I should be. Also, I could list a lot of qualifiers. How close am I to this person, how much do I interact with them socially, when and where do I see them, etc., but that's not the point. I think most of us would draw a line, even if it's a squiggly one, somewhere. 100% would be a tough number to get to.

Maybe "accepting" is too general of a description. I can accept just about anything at a distance, but the closer you get, the criteria changes. I'm not 100% accepting of a lot of people. As I said, I'm a work in progress, and I both admit and accept that I fall short of the ideal in this department, especially given my history.

[CONSUELO]

A good question as I have noticed that while previously oppressed groups such as gay men talk loudly about acceptance, they are not always so accepting of other minorities. I have come across many instances of rejection and disdain of me as a transvestite by gay men. Thankfully though, not all gay men are like that.

A long time ago when I was a graduate student at a well-known west coast university when one of my fellow graduate students decided to go for what was then described as a sex change. The surgical/therapy group he was engaged with told him that he must first live his life as a woman for a year before even considering surgery. This he did, changing his name to Diane and dressing and behaving as a woman. The academic department where he worked accepted him and he continued his research and also taught as a teaching assistant, or TA. I really did not know Diane in those days. It was a big department and our paths did not cross. While there were a lot of embarrassed jokes about having a sex change, most students and staff just carried on as if nothing was happening. Any criticism was muted and I did not hear it.

At that time I was still trying to understand my own sexuality and transvestism. Looking back I wish I had been more confident of myself and reached out to Diane. Later I met her again and we chatted a lot and got along well but the issue of the sex change did not come up. I wish it had.

Yet another graduate student and I were friends at that time and he went off to teach at a large state university and we lost touch. I later found out that he later went through sexual reassignment surgery and I met her at several professional meetings and we chatted a lot but not too much about what she went through. Later I did call her and tell about my own transvestism and we had several conversations.

I always wanted to go and visit with her and have a deeper discussion about our respective paths through life. It has not happened yet simply because of time and distance issues but I do wish that I had made the effort to make contact and open up with her. She would have such a lot to teach me.

It is not easy to be fully and naturally accepting of people when you know that many around you, including family members, would be anywhere from critical to appalled, but we have to stand up for what we believe.

Two gay men were neighbors of ours and great friends and we still meet socially and really like one another but their sexuality is something that we never discuss. I see no need to.

Some other neighbors of ours would call them the gay couple and I objected. Why do we have to put a label on them like that, was my objection. I told her I did not refer to her and her husband as the "heterosexual couple", why did we have to label someone with their sexuality.

I hope I never behave as a Judas.

[Cheryl T]

I am and would be accepting and helpful.
I have friends and relatives who are gay and have always seen them as friends, not because of or in spite of anything, just friends.

How hypocritical would it be for us to ask for acceptance and then not give it?

[Stephanie47]

There's an old idiom which states "Clothes make the man." The same idiom should state "Clothes make the woman." Several comments indicated acceptance of homosexual men and women. Over the years I have had coworkers and professional relationships with gay men and lesbian women. No big deal. None showed any outward appearances of their sexuality. None were trying to be anything other than friends or coworkers. I do not acceptance anyone who tries to invade my personal space more than one time, and, not even that if he or she has knowledge of my marital status and presumed sexuality. A straight woman trying to invade my personal space will get the cold shoulder.

Next category is transgender men and women. There are two young transmen in my extended family. One is a child of one of her female cousins. The other is a granddaughter of my brother by marriage to his second wife. I full accept who they are. I don't know any transwomen. I believe I would accept them as long as they meet the same criteria I have for any other male or female. Underlying personality is my main criteria for having personal relationships.

The last category is the cross dresser. I am making a distinction between the transgender woman and the dresser who has no desire to transition. That is, the man just feels comfortable wearing the clothing of women. The same criteria exists for my acceptance of the person. It's not the clothes that "make the man or the woman." It's the personal actions. If a cross dresser wants to show up at the summer neighborhood block party in a dress and heels, so be it. Would I invite that person into my personal space. It depends upon her character. I have seen some men wearing women's clothing in my small city over the years. One in particular I've seen twice. She stands out like a sore thumb. No attempt to pass, but, also brazen attempts to be "in your face" attitude. Not the type of person who I would draw into my personal space. If the person was a GG woman acting in the same manner I would not draw her into my personal space either.

If I were to be present around any of these people who were minding their own business and someone was deciding to be discourteous and in their face, I definitely would come to their defense. At my age I have become extremely intolerant to people who are intolerant to others because of who they are or are not.

[Tracii G]

I have 2 old friends that have transitioned so I have been very accepting.
When they first came out I was on their side all the way.

[Rhonda Jean]

Making a distinction between someone who you know is transgender and someone close to you or in your family coming out with no known precursors, I've got a (sort of similar) real world example.

Without going into detail, I grew up with an accepting (encouraging in some respects) mother, and a father who just didn't say anything about it. My mom passed away in the '80's and my dad remarried a woman 20 years his younger. Picture my dad, typical southern blue collar. Hank Hill, sort of. When he dated and later married this woman, my dad started wearing multiple gold necklaces, shirt unbuttoned an extra button, multiple gold bracelets and rings. This is somebody who never wore anything but a plain wedding band. He also grew his fingernails long and started wearing clear polish, and for a while wore long artificial gold pinky nails. Not that any of this rises to the level of crossdressing, but still it was a rather shocking change in my dad. I never said anything about any of it. If we were just visiting at his house it was fine with me. If we went out to eat, still mostly OK. Kinda cool, even. Just being honest here, but beyond that it gets a little iffy. Would I want him showing up to my house with our friends? Frankly, I'd be a little uncomfortable, but I would have invited him. How about to deer camp? Hmmm. Again, what I do is different, but there's a correlation between this and my own level of outness. Comparably, I wear nail polish in male mode quite a lot outside of work, but I would never to deer camp.

So, I was of (at least) two minds on this. One, I thought he'd gone a little mid-life crazy. On the other hand, even though it made me a little uneasy, there was something cool about the fact that he made absolutely zero attempt to hide even the long nails and gold pinky nails. Seemed to be just the opposite, in fact. I realized even back then that I was hypocritical in some respects. I had long clear-polished nails back then, too, but no gold pinky nails. I actually tried to think of some way I could say, "Dad, I love your nails!" or something like that, but it just seemed beyond weird.

Like I said, I'm a work in progress.