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Thread: What do you talk about with SO when dressed and together

  1. #1
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    What do you talk about with SO when dressed and together

    For those of you who have a supportive woman, my wife asked what should we talk about when I am dressed as Ellen as opposed to me as drab.

    She finally saw me last night with makeup and dressed and could not handle too much more, despite an earlier request to experience more. (This follows earlier in the day of asking me to move out and not return and she was moving to her parents and ending marriage.)

    Are the conversation topics different? Do you talk fashion, look at magazines, have tea? How many just stay at home and interact and how many go out together? She is really trying and I don't have interaction experience and more fantasy to go by. I imagined Ellen as a girlfriend and drab as husband to her. But she thought I was too pretty to be her girlfriend - her friends dress plain and they take walks or have tea or sometimes shop but not in heels and dresses with pretty hair and makeup. She said I was the cheerleader type and that we would not have been friends. I tried to just touch her gently and she felt that was feminine. I kissed her cheek, with lipstick on, lightly and she felt that was feminine as well. She thought a man would choose me over her, despite my saying she was the sexy one - I was an illusion of makeup (with heavy beard stubble to try to make it easier on her)
    So hoping to learn how to interact with a woman who is trying very hard to be supportive, but finding it very hard.
    Thank you for any suggestions,
    Hugs, Ellen

  2. #2
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    In my case, the conversations and topics are pretty much the same. My so isn't really into the things that women are traditionally interested in, so our topics are pretty much compatible. I would like to add as well that she is also attracted to me while I'm Millie, but idk if she actually sees me as a different person.
    Last edited by Pat; 07-09-2018 at 11:00 AM. Reason: restore order of comments (so replies make sense.)

  3. #3
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    So her question is, then why should I be dressed as Ellen to interact with her?
    Hugs, Ellen

  4. #4
    Gold Member bridget thronton's Avatar
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    I think the point is you would like to interact with her when dressed - I have the same conversations with my wife regardless of how I am dressed

  5. #5
    I'm a Big Girl, now!! JustJoni's Avatar
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    My wife and I really don't much change our subjects of discussion. Well maybe a little if we are talking about something makeup or clothing oriented (like how is that different primer you bought working out, or which earrings do you prefer with this outfit). But after that, its just the normal conversations married folks have: kids, bills, health, shopping, etc.

    Yes, we go out, and when out we discuss the folks around us at the restaurant, or the quality of the meal, or what we are doing after dinner, again like nearly every other conversation I have with my wife.

    Now when we are out, especially at more mundane locations, she does most of the talking to waiters or service staff because my femme voice isn't all that convincing and she knows it bothers me to out myself so obviously.
    In between the bright lights and the far, unlit unknown...

  6. #6
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    My wife is turned off by me dressed. So she wonders why should I want to interact with her while dressed. And if I do it only alone, then am I too self-absorbed? I believe there are things that society says men can't/shouldn't do and Ellen is a way to move outside my usual self. So she says why the clothes to do that?

  7. #7
    Non-Binary Member Krea's Avatar
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    We talk about the same sort of things, however i am dressed. We might occassionally discuss what i am wearing (my wife is great at providing honest but constructive criticism) but mostly things are just like they always were.
    Her viewpoint is that it's just clothes really. As long as i'm still the same person underneath, it doesn't worry her.
    "The only way is onward. There is no turning back."

  8. #8
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    When I am dessed, we talk about the same mundane things we would talk about any other time.

    I am still me, my interests, opinions, joys, fears, and desires do not change just because I am wearing a dress.

    I have no problem talking about "girly things" in DRAB nor do I have a problem talking about "manly things" in DRAG.

    Why would I be any different?
    Last edited by Robertacd; 07-09-2018 at 04:55 PM.

  9. #9
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    I’m in the same boat as most of the other girls here. We act just like we always do.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    To answer the OP:
    My husband and I talk about the same things we would always talk about, usually current events, politics, kids, where we want to eat, what movie to see, where is there the best parking in town, basic everyday stuff. We don't look at magazines or talk fashion, I don't even talk fashion with my GG friends. We never stay home when he's dressed. My husband is not a GG and no matter how he's dressed, he would not be interested in some of the things my GG friends talk about which is usually their relationships, not clothes, hair, nails or superficial things.

    Xxmilliexx:
    To put it nicely, don't get me started on "men's clothes" vs "women's clothes". I think we can agree that they are just "our" clothes and leave it at that. I do buy my clothes in the women's department, though.

    Just an FYI, women had a huge clothing culture change between 1900's and 1920's. That was because women collectively banned together to change things. The changes continued throughout the century. If men really want to change the current culture, there may have to be the same type of shift but men will have to buck the system collectively. Not sure how many men you could get to start a movement clothing change for men.
    Last edited by char GG; 07-09-2018 at 10:02 AM.

  11. #11
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    I agree that I am the same person and there doesn't need to be a different conversation, but then she asks "So why do you need dress?" Saying it makes me peaceful and happy doesn't cut it with her.

  12. #12
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    Well the simple answer would be "Because this is who I am and what I like to wear.".

  13. #13
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    So Ed, if your wife is totally repulsed seeing you en femme, although you say it makes you peaceful and happy, are you going to continue trying to interact with her en femme?

  14. #14
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    She has seen dozen of pictures of me dressed, and had even put them up on walls when she asked me to print them. She moved my clothes out of hiding into the bedroom closets. But did nothing to give me opportunity to wear them by not being alone, or by threats, or with her, except few months 1.5 yrs ago when she did try to accept and first saw pictures. She was upset I was going to have a 24 hour period to dressing in private, first since 4/2017. Threw a fit and later said I if I was planning on dressing, do it with her. She said she imagined would she love me if I was horribly disfigured from an accident- but this accident made me pretty and feminine instead. So wondered could she interact with me with that frame of mind. I hate hiding this part of me from her, but she needs to see if she can manage it. If I choose to go away to do it, she claims I am narcissistic and self-absorbed and shallow. I feel that I know her feelings and I am trying to not hurt her by exposing her to what I think she won't like, but makes me happy. If I wanted to take a 24 hour get away to go tuna fishing or a ballgame in another city, that's okay. But not to crossdress. Because she can't tell that to others.
    Hugs, Ellen

  15. #15
    Aspiring Member Rayleen's Avatar
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    just maybe, just maybe, ClosetED , you might be going too fast with her. She need to understand that you be a man for her too.

    You have to treat her the way a man treat her lover first. Communicating to her your feeling so she understand your needs also.

    Good luck.

    Rayleen
    Wanting something is a fantasy which on a long time period clouds your mind and makes you think you need it.

    Rayleen

  16. #16
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    Ed, it sounds like she is a yo-yo in her actions and statements. You know what I mean. Why the get out of the house argument and then the 180? There's so much going on between you two, but what do you think is the root cause?

  17. #17
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    Rayleen, I thought it best to keep the CDing out of the bed, but for 20 years we did hose as a fetishistic use. Then 8 years ago, when I wanted a little more, she stopped completely, and after 18 months of holding out, said I need to CD. She said do whatever you want, just leave me out of it. And so I experimented and Ellen became a reality and not a dream. And the genie is not sure if she can go back in the bottle - return to just fetishistic use of hose. So I think, since we have been together 29 years, we still care for each other, she tried her best to fill my needs, as best as I could describe. So many have been forced to do this alone, so I reached out to find out how to do it with another who does not like it, but is willing to try to tolerate it.

    Root cause is love holding us together - her upbringing that CDing (and homosexuality) is morally wrong sends her running to escape. Her mother focused on her own beauty (and God), so my wife refuses to compete in beauty. She makes sure our daughters look better than she does at all times and she will be damned if she will compete to be prettier than her husband.
    Ellen
    Last edited by ClosetED; 07-09-2018 at 11:42 AM.

  18. #18
    Member KatrinaK's Avatar
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    So a few thoughts....

    I agree with the others that you're moving way too fast. You say that she asked you to leave and that she was going to end the marriage on the same day that you decided to dress for her for the first time. That timing seems highly emotionally motivated and poorly thought through.

    You also say she's turned off by you dressed, but that you're looking to do it again. I have to ask if you're putting your own needs ahead of hers.

    You also say that "she needs to see if she can manage it" which I believe is the wrong approach. She doesn't owe you anything with regards to your dressing and if you try to force it you may do irreparable harm to your relationship.

    If you want to stay married to her, I strongly recommend that you start really thinking about prioritizing her needs. It also sound like you need to establish clear, mutually acceptable boundaries.

    I cannot recommend the following enough for you: please go find a marriage counselor who specializes in LGBT / Gender issues.

    We found ours here https://www.psychologytoday.com and she is amazing. AND SLOW DOWN.

  19. #19
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    She is the one asking me to do dress for her - I thought it a bad idea. She wanted to test herself possibly. And we have seen therapists - one who saw us separately for most sessions for a year, then each to a different one for another. She blames the therapist for encouraging me to experiment. I feel comfortable with who I am - a CDer who wants this only occasionally. Her issues are based on her upbringing-she wants me to do it NEVER EVER. So how do you come up with mutually acceptable boundaries? I thought my going a way for 24 hours once in 1.5 years was reasonable, delayed several times by things she scheduled without asking me if I had plans. She didn't think the 1 day was reasonable. I have dressed for up to a few hours in that time, but always rushed to do it and undo it. I wanted a day to do my nails and enjoy the process. She wants a second place to live and we put in bid, to make her happy. I put her needs almost always above mine. But what makes me happy is not her priority.

  20. #20
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    I don't know, but I see that she is asking a lot of direct questions, most of which should and can be answered simply and honestly as they relate to why you do what you do. Be consistent in your answers. Don't get frustrated when she asks the same questions over and over. I think that she may be fighting an internal battle as to how much to accept you and what you like to do, as you. She sounds like she may be trying to balance religious beliefs, her church's as well as her own. All that to me is much better than a strict DADT situation. Go slow and answer her questions and encourage her to always ask whatever she needs to know. She may be closer than you think from a more stable position where she may be able to tolerate and maybe even accept that what is, actually is and really is not as bad as she originally thought. I also second the recommendation for more counseling now because she is at least asking about what you do. Hopefully, that should help her get more out of counseling than before. Good luck.

  21. #21
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    I hate to break it to you, ED, but from your description, your wife sounds VERY conflicted about your crossdressing...one minute, she wants to see a rendition of "girl" you for curiosity's sake (but not too much, as that would be overwhelming), and the next minute she wants you to either move out and/or she will move in with her parents and end the marriage.

    As for her friends, clearly they are unassuming Plain Janes and she likes it that way. En femme, you remind her of the "cheerleader type", and that is not her type even if you were a GG yourself, so clearly that is a non-starter on either level.

    ED, you DO realize in your heart of hearts that any thought of you becoming a "girlfriend" to your wife when in female mode is a total pipe dream, and you are NEVER going to fit that square peg into that particular round hole. All you are doing by your wishful thinking is setting both you and your wife up for a perpetual rollercoaster ride that benefits no one. In my particular case, it is DADT all the way with a dose of hostility thrown in from time to time for good measure, so I know exactly where I stand and I govern myself accordingly. "Girlfriend" to my wife? Ain't gonna happen - no how, no way.

    My suggestion is to either go back into the closet, let your wife socialize with gal pals of her own choosing and who are like-minded and call it a day, or else if you do need external validation of your crossdressing, either find an accepting GG BFF with whom you can have a platonic friendship or join a local crossdressers support group that you would feel comfortable becoming involved with.

  22. #22
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    I realize having her a GF is not likely to work. So I asked what kind of relationship have other found workable? Just being the husband in a dress and makeup and go about business as usual? And if wife is plain jane and CDer wants to be more fashionable, is that possible? I was fine being in the closet and then going off to the hotel as son is still around. I went to local support group 3 times and she was upset at that - I am risking her standing in the community. She grew up feeling like 'The Glass Castle' - embarrassed by parents who fought, yelled, police came, mother openly trying to convert people who didn't want to - like a rabbi. So she is worried that my being here is risking her reputation. And being seen dressed driving to meeting at night after dark was just too risky the 1time I did it. And the police might arrest me for having women's clothes in the car. So I would be willing to seek affirmation elsewhere than her, but she wants me to stay in the house, so it is only her who can provide any affirmation or interaction.
    Yes she is very conflicted and also very controlling.
    Hugs, Ellen

  23. #23
    Just do it already! DaisyLawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClosetED View Post
    I thought my going a way for 24 hours once in 1.5 years was reasonable, delayed several times by things she scheduled without asking me if I had plans. She didn't think the 1 day was reasonable. I have dressed for up to a few hours in that time, but always rushed to do it and undo it. I wanted a day to do my nails and enjoy the process. She wants a second place to live and we put in bid, to make her happy. I put her needs almost always above mine. But what makes me happy is not her priority.
    Oh dear. A marraige made in heaven this is not. Crossdressing is the least of the problems here. Sorry but that's the truth of it.

  24. #24
    Member KatrinaK's Avatar
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    Ellen, I read through some of your other posts and this isn’t the first time she’s threatened you with divorce if you don’t stop dressing. I get a clear impression that despite what she may occasionally say, she doesn’t accept or tolerate your dressing in any way. Am I correct in assuming that she would like you to stop, forget about it and never speak of it again?

    I think we all know that’s not likely to happen.

    I’m going to change my previous advice of a couples counselor who specializes in the area to some one on one counseling with a specialist in gender issues. I think you need to figure out what’s best for you. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle and self-repression is the reason we as a group have the highest suicide rate of any discernible population. I’m very sorry you’re in this position, it is not enviable. I really think you need to do some open minded soul searching about what you need to be happy, and what you may need to give up in order to get it.

    Also, what country do you live in where you’re concerned about being arrested for having women’s clothes in the car?

  25. #25
    Silver Member ClosetED's Avatar
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    Yes, she says I should stop forever, but she also says she can never get the image of Ellen out of her head no matter how masculine i look at the moment. I tried growing beard for 3 months. She will often say things, then claim that was in the past, but then hold me to things I have said in the past. And I try to be honest - I don't think the desire will ever go away and denying it makes it worse. I tried to suggest she stroke my male ego with her wearing lingerie as one option and me wearing male sexy bedtime costumes and have her take pictures but she won't. I tried to offer her boudoir photography done by women, hoping to boost her self-image -refuses. I did go to a 1:1 with someone who sees many gender issues.
    We are in USA - she just thinks that crazy way

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