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Thread: groups of women

  1. #1
    Cereal Killer Ashley in Virginia's Avatar
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    groups of women

    Since I started transition, I have always been uncomfortable with groups of women or in women's spaces. I feel like an outsider or like I really just don't belong. My therapist has been after me to keep pushing, so I decided to join a women's golf league. I love golf, when I came out the guys I was playing with regularly somehow fell off the face of the earth. So I've played sporadically over the last 2 years. I was always intimidated to go by myself, and I couldn't find anyone else who I was comfortable around to play with very often.

    League play starts for me tomorrow morning (the group has been playing since March), and I am a bit worried about how I will be accepted. The director of golf at the course is aware that I am trans, I was up front about it in an email before joining, and he said I was more than welcome to join, regardless of what the players think. I am probably projecting my insecurities on them, but I am really worried about the strength difference between me and them and I don't want them to be intimidated or say anything about me "being a man". My game is a mess, so I am pretty sure I wont score well, but I can hit the ball so much further than them, that I will easily overpower the course from the tee box they play at.

    I don't know what I am posting this for. I just needed to vent off my thoughts before i tried to lay down and they ate me up all night.

    How are y'all dealing with fitting into groups of women?
    If I ever get real rich, I hope I'm not real mean to poor people, like I am now.

  2. #2
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    I guess it is about finding your inner comfort level and associated confidence. Listen to the person you signed you up. Worried about your long drives, hit from the appropriate tee box and just nxplain that you hit it further than they do. No other explanations needed unless they ask. Make friends, be natural and look them all in the eyes when interfacing with them. Good luck and enjoy. You deserve it all.

  3. #3
    Gold Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Ashley,
    Putting the gender issues aside for a moment , try not to give it a thought how good or bad you can or will play , we've all had good days and bad days on a golf course no matter what gender we are . A lesson I learned very early on was when watching some elderly ladies play golf, they only had the strength to lift the club so far so they couldn't force their shots , the weight of the club alone did the job it was intended to do , on a par 4 they would still be on or near the green in two , they still took some beating !

    I'm facing the same issues in a different way , I wish to run my own painting group but as Teresa so will it get off the ground or be a total failure ? I have some support already from painting group and one or two people have shown an interest the only thing we can do is give it a try .
    Meet up on the golf course , trust the golf director, he is supporting you ,someone will give a game, once that hurdle is over it will get easier . As we know with TG issues it's just becoming accustomed to them , be yourself and enjoy your game and others will take you on board , it won't be long before your gender isn't even questioned .

    I'm not sure if I could play as Teresa , not unless I stop cursing about my bad shots , I have a local course which is very low key so I may give it a go dressed , that does mean a few new golf items .
    Last edited by Teresa; 07-12-2018 at 10:38 AM.
    The real me ,no going back.

  4. #4
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Ashley you are very strong and courageous... Outside of jerks everything is going to be fine and it may be wonderful for you..I transitioned 9 yrs ago and I still have some issues joining women only groups..
    I am real

  5. #5
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley in Virginia View Post
    I am probably projecting my insecurities on them, but I am really worried about the strength difference between me and them and I don't want them to be intimidated or say anything about me "being a man".
    I think that's exactly what's happening -- in your head, you're answering questions on their behalf. I'd say stop that, but I do it all the time too. I've learned to just go and be my best self and so far 100% of the time they like me and have no issues with me. Go play golf. Be your best self. Let them answer for themselves.

    As far as being able to hit the ball a ton -- that's not such a big advantage. My girlfriend (TS) can hit 300 without effort, but that's not a good answer when the distance to the pin is 250. Play from the ladies tee so you can be a part of the group. Their issue may be controlling their drive to make the green, but you'll have to learn to control yours to not over-shoot it. All told, you'll all have stories to tell when you get to the 19th.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

  6. #6
    Gold Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Pat,
    Good advice, I was a pretty good tennis player , but had to learn when to calm it down for the oponent , no fun in making a fool of them . I guess we need to go to the Lounge to talk about bad golf games but I certainly won't be taking on your GF she'll think I haven't got off the stating block when she's waiting for me on the green !!

    I guess Ashley's problem is how friendly the golf club is , I hated the snobbery of some clubs , it's a game that should be enjoyed hopefully with some good friends .
    The real me ,no going back.

  7. #7
    Cereal Killer Ashley in Virginia's Avatar
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    So, I played awful as expected. But the day was OK. They were all very nice superficially, we made some idle chit chat between holes, they were complimentary on good shots as I was to theirs. I don't think any of them picked up on the fact that I was trans, which was nice.

    I still somehow felt out of place though. I don't know if it was just because I'm not very good socially, or if there was some underlying weirdness with me. I don't know. They have invited me to play again next week, and I probably will, so hopefully it gets easier.
    If I ever get real rich, I hope I'm not real mean to poor people, like I am now.

  8. #8
    between worlds... steftoday's Avatar
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    I'm happy for you and proud of you, too!
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 07-13-2018 at 02:24 AM. Reason: Please do not quote the entire preceding post just to add 9 words
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    So don't you get lonely I'm right where you are

  9. #9
    Living MY Life Rachel Smith's Avatar
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    There are certain things we have to sacrifice in order to have the life WE feel we were born to. When it comes to sports this is more evident then in most situations. I was a pretty good bowler (215-220 average) in my previous life however I would not feel right bowling in a women's league even though there are many women that could beat me like a drum. I just fee that at some point we have to give something too. Just because the men won't accept us post-transition we should not force/demand that the women do. I don't feel that is fair to them even though most of the cis women will accept us (at least the ones I have met). Now if you/me competed in their league prefaced with the fact that we will not accept any awards that would be fine.

    BTW I live near Roanoke, VA so if you ever want to play a round with someone that understands let me know. Though I must tell you I enjoy a round of golf I suck at it. LOL

    Rachel
    My parents should have known something wasn't quite right when I kept putting Kens' head on Barbies' body Rachel Smith May 2017

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][SIZE="3"]Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. Dan Stanford[/SIZE][/SIZE]

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  10. #10
    Senior Member KellyJameson's Avatar
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    I work as a ER nurse, which at my hospital is easily 75% women. I don't make it a point to talk about myself because everyone already does it for me.

    Passing was extremely important for me because it was what I thought I needed to be safe. This obsession with passing begins to feel like another form of dysphoria.

    Letting go of the need for acceptance and inclusion is letting go of self imposed dysphoria as the discomfort in your role as a woman.

    There will always be whispers and knowing glances shared between people in reference to who and what you are. People do this about many things whenever they sense you are "different"

    Before transitioning I did not like feeling different because I felt broken. When you no longer feel broken you can than begin the harder task of reveling in the fact that you are and always will be different.

    IMO forget group think and look for those special individuals that cross your threshold and enrich your life. These relationships take time to grow as anything worthwhile does.

    The most important woman to have a relationship with is not in a group but inside you. That will be the relationship that shapes all your other relationships. If that relationship is conflicted than all your other relationships will be by extension.

    Flow and mindfulness are the sources for being a complete person and a complete golfer.

    If your focus is elsewhere you will miss the putt.
    Last edited by KellyJameson; 07-12-2018 at 10:35 PM.
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  11. #11
    Gold Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Ashley,
    When I have days debating whether I should or shouldn't go for it evrytime I do I'm so much happier , backing off just means it's harder next time . So I'm really pleased you went through with it and better still there's going to be a next time .

    I can understand the feeling of not fitting in either camp at the moment but it's early days but try and keep it up otherwise they might think you have chickened out becaues of your issues .

    Rachel,
    I feel they are wise words and apply to many situations other than golf, we present as women but it doesn't mean they will welcome us with open arms , I feel I'm a little pushy in a very polite way . Just today I was having some fun with SAs but when I glance around at most women shoppers they are usually fairly subdued and just go about their business without much interaction , maybe I'm trying too hard .
    The real me ,no going back.

  12. #12
    Member Janice Ashton's Avatar
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    Ashley

    I used to have similar thoughts myself regarding being uncomfortable in groups of women's, I always thought I was cheating by having male genitalia. After surgery those thoughts have dissipated greatly, but, just to say 'Women' feel uncomfortable in women's groups as well, so you are not alone. Just be yourself and believe me you will be accepted, I would say more so than in groups of men. On the subject of Golf? Might I suggest that if you feel you are over-powering in strength, why not under-club the shots? Just a thought.

    Janice

  13. #13
    Living MY Life Rachel Smith's Avatar
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    Teresa, thanks for understanding what I was trying saying or trying to say.

    Janice, I feel much more comfortable in a group of women then I ever did in any group of men. I just don't get all the testosterone laden competition. Perhaps I just never had enough testosterone to feel justified in that way. By the same token under-clubing is not fair to either them or me just let me play from the whites or blues and you can play from the reds. I will not judge you and hope you won't judge me for playing from the tees further back though on any given day many women could beat me.

    Did you hear about the two M to F high schoolers that ran track against the cis women and thought it great that they beat them hands down. Is that fair to the cis-girls? ABSOUTELY NOT!!!! We (as a group) need to give up somethings we would enjoy doing just because it is the right thing to do. That being said it should be said in the reverse as well and no cis-girl/woman should be able to compete against the boys/men no matter how good they are because they are depriving a male of that spot just as the m to f boys are depriving a girl of a spot. Unless of course, as in bowling, it is a mixed league.

    Rachel
    My parents should have known something wasn't quite right when I kept putting Kens' head on Barbies' body Rachel Smith May 2017

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][SIZE="3"]Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. Dan Stanford[/SIZE][/SIZE]

    I used to feel like one in a million now with this forum I feel like one OF a million

    “We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us.” ― Joseph Campbell

  14. #14
    Cereal Killer Ashley in Virginia's Avatar
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    I don't want to debate the morality of this. The director of golf is fully aware of my situation and has gone on record saying that I am welcome. This thread isn't necessarily about just playing golf. I am really struggling with how I fit in with other people. I'm tired of feeling like a freak and a weirdo. Joining this league felt like it was a way for me to fit into a group of like minded women. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
    If I ever get real rich, I hope I'm not real mean to poor people, like I am now.

  15. #15
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley in Virginia View Post
    This thread isn't necessarily about just playing golf. I am really struggling with how I fit in with other people. I'm tired of feeling like a freak and a weirdo.
    I get that. I'm doing the same now -- that's the toughest job of transition in my opinion; living the life you demanded to have. I can't claim guruji status on it, but what I'm finding is that the biggest struggle is internal. People who meet you now have never known you to be any other way than how you are. Transition, hopefully has brought you to the place where you are the person you were meant to be and so the best person you can be. Let that best self shine out and accept that you will be loved for who you are. Don't second-guess other people on why they're accepting you or how much they're accepting you -- that's a sucker's game. The other ladies invited you to play again. That's a positive outcome. Accept it. Give it time to grow from acquaintance into friendship.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

  16. #16
    Gold Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Pat,
    That is a very good point and one I've come to realise now I'm out more dressed , people don't know me any other way so they form their opinions and thoughts on how they see me as Teresa . I have to say it takes a while to get use to that , I'm back pedalling less so now, whatever they do accept me as is fine . On the whole I find people trying to wrap me in cotton wool , several times I've been asked if I can manage to carry items to my car . Also a good point is letting the person you become shine through , you can't second guess people because they may have other things on their mind while they're dealing with you , as my wife would often tell me , it's not all about you !

    Ashley,
    You make the point that the issue is not solely about the golf situation but I've been there and experienced the good and bad of other golfers , I don't think there's any other game associated with as much snobberey , a poser's paradise ! I congratulate you on giving it a go .
    Last edited by Teresa; 07-16-2018 at 07:47 AM.
    The real me ,no going back.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley in Virginia View Post
    League play starts for me tomorrow morning (the group has been playing since March), and I am a bit worried about how I will be accepted. The director of golf at the course is aware that I am trans, I was up front about it in an email before joining, and he said I was more than welcome to join, regardless of what the players think. I am probably projecting my insecurities on them, but I am really worried about the strength difference between me and them and I don't want them to be intimidated or say anything about me "being a man". My game is a mess, so I am pretty sure I wont score well, but I can hit the ball so much further than them, that I will easily overpower the course from the tee box they play at.
    "Drive for show - putt for dough", Ashley. Until you're a scratch (0 handicap) golfer and soundly beating everyone in the league, play the game as your peers do. Until that point, your advantage is immaterial as it is offset by your other weaknesses. The director knows that.
    Now, depending on the game, that rationale might not hold up. "Best-ball", for example, would give your group what might be argued as an unfair advantage, allowing them to use your tee shot most of the time. In that situation (if it ever comes up), the decent thing to do would be to back up to the next tee box.

    Lastly, revel in it, girlfriend! You're going to have golfers fighting to get you in their foursome, especially as your short game picks up, as it almost certainly will with regular play.

    FWIW, my game is the opposite of yours. I can hit a respectable drive, once per round, on average. The rest of the time my tee shots resemble the pattern of a sawed off shotgun. But put a short iron in my hand and I look like I know what I'm doing.

  18. #18
    Gold Member Lana Mae's Avatar
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    Pat has the answer! They invited YOU to play again! That is a form of acceptance! Acquaintance to friend takes time in any situation! Go for it and grow! Best wishes! Hugs Lana Mae
    Let's play dress up!!
    "Foxy lady! You look so good!!" Jimi Hendrix

  19. #19
    Living MY Life Rachel Smith's Avatar
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    Ashley, I am not saying you are wrong I am just saying how I look at it.

    Hugs
    Rachel
    My parents should have known something wasn't quite right when I kept putting Kens' head on Barbies' body Rachel Smith May 2017

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][SIZE="3"]Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. Dan Stanford[/SIZE][/SIZE]

    I used to feel like one in a million now with this forum I feel like one OF a million

    “We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us.” ― Joseph Campbell

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