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Thread: A very challenging conversation

  1. #1
    Member KatrinaK's Avatar
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    A very challenging conversation

    Okay, warning, this isn’t my usual light hearted fare...

    I was visiting my brother and his family at their cottage, and one of his friends comes to visit for the night. Typical dinner, decent conversation. Then over desert, the ladies start chatting at one end of the table and my brother, this guy and I are chatting at the other end.

    All of a sudden, a nice conversation turns into a hate fest on the trans community. These two are both “bros”, so my brother goes along and starts demeaning the “full on tranny” he used to work with. These two are going’s on about the “transgender agenda,” how kids aren’t really trans, just their parents are trying to be hip, then this douche starts going on about how “the genderfuid are the biggest freaks of them all.”

    This is about where I really seriously contemplated punching this guy out. I’m not a violent person, but frankly if I was out to my family (I’m not, just my wife) but if I was out to them, I think I would have done it.

    I was actually a little timid about defending our community based on the nature of the conversation, and the people involved, and risking outing myself.

    I’m sitting here wearing my genderfluid pride necklace and I’m not sure if I deserve to wear it right now.

    Then this idiot starts defending Harvey Weinstein, saying that he hopes all his accusers get sued into bankruptcy because they must have signed a contract exchanging sex for movie roles.

    Am I crazy or did this person deserve to be punched in the face in front of his wife?
    Last edited by KatrinaK; 08-28-2018 at 09:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Gold Member Maria in heels's Avatar
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    Katrina....we can only control ourselves, and you did very well tonite! Yes, he definately sounds like a jerk and a biggot, and no matter how angry you are, don't let them force you to do something that you may regret, or more importantly, not want to do. You should be very proud of yourself for your self control

  3. #3
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    No. Violence is unlikely to solve the problem you're looking to solve. It was not your house, so the obvious choice, showing the boor to the door, wasn't really an option. I think I'd have made it plain that I had no interest in being a part of such an ignorant hateful exchange, and retired. It was not worth outing yourself. Certainly not worth facing assault charges.

  4. #4
    Silver Member Becky Blue's Avatar
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    I admire your restraint Katrina, its sad that in 2018 we still have so many Neanderthals amongst us
    A.K.A Rebecca & Bec

  5. #5
    Member KatrinaK's Avatar
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    Thanks Maria. I feel like the restraint I showed as positive. But I regret not finding a way to defend our community without outing myself. I told him right off on the Harvey Weinstein bit, then moved to the ladies end of the table for more civilized conversation. I feel like I could have done more (punching him not included)

  6. #6
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Thanks for reminding me how boring and stupid conversations, "hanging with the guys", can be, Katrina.

    Since most of my socializing is with GG's or trans now, I'd forgotten how much I DON'T MISS those get togethers!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  7. #7
    Member KatrinaK's Avatar
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    Kelly, you’re 100% right. But in my dreams I decked him and then told him he just got beaten up by a “tranny” LOL

  8. #8
    Member Kimberly Adams's Avatar
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    Katrina,

    I wouldn't take it personally. Just guy talk. What if the guy said hey I love the trans-gender community and think they should all be accepted? No guy will say it regardless of what they really think. Let it go. Harvey Weinstein is another story. I have yet to hear anyone defend this guy. On that topic I would engage. People that take advantage and harm others should rot in hell. Yeah I have some personal experience.

  9. #9
    Member KatrinaK's Avatar
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    Kimberly, I did engage on Harvey Weinstein and called him out so much that the ladies stopped their conversation and swung their heads around. I feel good about that. It’s people like this that create so many problems for the young trans kids in school. I feel like I met the guy whose trying to force trans girls into the boys room.

    Hes a house builder and I kinda wanna find his company’s yelp page and paint the word bigot up and down it.
    Last edited by KatrinaK; 08-28-2018 at 10:08 PM.

  10. #10
    Silver Member CynthiaD's Avatar
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    You did just fine, Katrina. Ask yourself this: Is there anything you could have said or done, including punching him out, that would have changed his mind? I doubt it. So you did great.

  11. #11
    Member Karen's Secret's Avatar
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    People like that aren't worth your time and effort. There is nothing to be gained by getting into an argument and there is zero chance you'll change his point of view. It would have been better to just tell him you disagreed and that you preferred not to be part of the conversation. Then you could have joined the ladies or just left.

  12. #12
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    I try to let the idiots argue among themselves and not be part of their conversation.
    That way if somebody is watching you are not one of the idiots.
    You did OK and violence is only needed if someone is trying to take your life.

  13. #13
    🙊🙈🙉 Patience's Avatar
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    I understand why you feel bad. Sometimes words fail us just when we need them the most.

    From your account, it doesn't sound like it was your brother who introduced the subject, so there's no reason for you to strain your relationship with him on account of another person's stupidity.

    As for the boorish guy, well, you may not be able to reason with him yet, but if you're really interested, you can try to understand him. I wonder if this person might not be feeling he has a grievance, in that he believes his place of employment, by accomodating a transgendered person's needs is in fact giving that person an unfair advantage at work. Or -the horror- if the queer got a promotion and he didn't. That could set a guy off.

    I'm not suggesting you follow up. Maybe the moment is gone. File for future reference.

  14. #14
    Rachel Rachelakld's Avatar
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    Tough one, personally I tend to stand up to people who hate on others who can't defend themselves, probably like saying "I suppose you think disabled are freaks to?" - to divert him and show how stupid he is. On the other hand, maybe your brother did work with a Trans who is not the sharpest tool in the shed, so he judges them all the same.

    But for the sake of your relationship, probably best you stayed silent and probably mention to your brother in private, that you found his "bros views" ignorant and embarrassing
    See all my photos, read many stories of my outings and my early days at
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  15. #15
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    Where I live the minimum charge against you for punching him in the face would be simple assault, a misdemeanor. It would go up from there depending upon his injuries. I've run into some of those situations/conversations and I do take them to task on their remarks. One does not have to identify as gay, lesbian, transgender, black, white, Latino, etc to defend any part of society. Frankly, we would have the conversation once because I flush those people down the toilet. I don't have a stomach for any of the crap you listened to. As far as dealing with a family member I'd shame his sorry ass right in front of anyone who was there. No holds barred. Nobody goes to jail for asserting First Amendment Right. I hope you lace into your brother.
    Last edited by Stephanie47; 08-29-2018 at 10:25 AM.

  16. #16
    Silver Member Bobbi46's Avatar
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    Don't be hard on yourself your self restraint was a commendation for you sadly there are two many bigots around and being bigots it would take steam hammer or more to change their pitiful little minds, there will always be people who will belittle us in general thankfully they are in a minority the best we can do is live mlife as we should do, try to ignore the uninformed and get on with life.
    I started life a lost man now I am a found woman

  17. #17
    Aspiring Glamour Queen Solange's Avatar
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    Your patience and diplomacy in the presence of such hurtful language is something you should be proud of. I think your timidity was based on a sound assessment of the risk vs. value of a confrontation.

    Wear your necklace with pride. In fact go buy yourself a new soft, lacy and beautiful indulgence to go with it. Tuck yourself in, toss back your hair, and revel in the exquisite delight of being such a complex and amazing human.

    Hugs girl! You did us proud by being the adult in the room.

    Solange

  18. #18
    Senior Member mbmeen12's Avatar
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    Two wrongs just does not make it right....You were right not to be over aggressive. Let me be clear, there will always be bias in human beings. Name one community that does not.....big hug to you KatrinaK
    Escapism isn't necessarily bad, but is definitely unhealthy in the long term. While helpful in the short term, things will degrade over time. At some point, the escapee will have to face the issue. Things simply blowing over isn't really going to happen in many situations.

  19. #19
    Silver Member Bobbi46's Avatar
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    A big plus in the retsraint and composure in the face of an unpleasant time and an example of how we should all be.
    I started life a lost man now I am a found woman

  20. #20
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    Katrina,

    While at the time I may have resisted telling the guy he was talking b*****ks I seriously doubt that afterwards I could have stopped myself from talking any sibling of mine to task over that conversation.

    I'd had to ask, "Did you really believe that nonsense about Weinstein?" "If it'd been a daughter of yours who fell victim to a lowlife like him you'd say fair play to the guy?" "And does your wife know you think this way?"

    Your brother is probably as wary as you of facing down that moron as your were at the time. It's not easy to initiate even verbal conflict in a social situation. Your brother may have felt that to oppose his friend might make him look the odd one out and have him labeled as a "queer lover" or some other demeaning title.

  21. #21
    Platinum Member Crissy 107's Avatar
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    You handled yourself very well under the circumstances. Like others said no way you could possibly change his closed mind and sometimes we have to let jerks be jerks and move on. Too bad you didn’t just start at the girls end of the table, definitely more fun.
    Crissy

  22. #22
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    Katrina, you absolutely did the right thing. Violence is never an answer, and outing yourself when you don't want to, or need to, is never an answer. When this kind of thing happens to me, I withdraw from the discussion and smile inwardly to myself, safe in the knowledge that, in the morning he will still be a bigot but, and I will be dressed as I want, and when I'm dressed as I want, then I will laugh at him, out loud.

  23. #23
    Stop that, it's silly.... DIANEF's Avatar
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    A sad tale. This is why conversations with the male community holds so little interest for me.
    Here today, gone tomorrow....

  24. #24
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    Katrina,
    Probably many of us have been in similar situations listening to the hate rant by others. I agree with Traci about best not to argue with idiots. I also feel sorry for these people and suspect they have their own personal demons, and these outbursts are probably a reflection of their problems. But I would intervene if I ever saw someone verbally abusing a TG person (inside I laugh about them not knowing about my secret; ha, we are slowly taking over the world).
    HG

  25. #25
    Platinum Member alwayshave's Avatar
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    Katrina, some times showing restraint is the right move. The other issue was your wife was there, which means you have to consider her feelings.
    Please call me Jamie, I always_have crossdressed, I always will, "alwayshave".

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