Blowing smoke

[Lygophilia]

I don't think it's a necessity for them to pass as women, but rather they pass as looking attractive.

[Crissy 107]

Majella, I'm not sure that I have told someone that have passed, I have told them that they are beautiful, lovely or sexy, because I believe they are. A few ladies I believed pass, but that does not make my prior statements untrue.

I agree with this! Crissy

[Aunt Kelly]

Doctored pictures here are fine. Telling the subject that she looks nice (wonderful, marvelous, etc.) is a nice thing to do. That's why they took the shots and worked them over so hard. Yes, I do know that not everyone does this, but a lot of us do. Saying, however, that they're going to pass, based on that image is a fool's errand. As has been pointed out, most of us don't pass. Some of us can sometimes "blend", i.e. escape notice well enough avoid the second look which will kill inevitably kill the illusion. So stop building it up when it's just so much BS.

[nvlady]

I tend to agree with Majella, but on the other hand I've seen some GG's that I thought didn't pass.

[Tracii G]

Diane makes some good points.
Hearing the truth IS support IMO.

[Ozark]

I'm not comfortable posting photos. I don't dress to pass, I dress for comfort. The first time I posted photos on here the very first comment was 'how is this cross dressing?' I guess because I was in shorts and a summer top?

[Patience]

IMO, CDers who go out (or have the ambition to go out) should, for their own good, be held to a much higher standard than those who choose to only dress at home.

"Honesty is the best policy" is a good phrase, but so is "Do no harm".

[kayla_bayarea]

I agree that the word "pass" is being used too frequently. The situation (time, place, environment, etc.) needs to be heavily considered and not just how one is dressed. If you are sitting in a dimly movie theater and the person next to you thinks you are a GG does that count? If you are in a bathroom stall and the girl in the next stall over only sees your shoes and legs? I'm being somewhat facetious but I think you get my point. So, I think other compliments like feminine, pretty, or whatever are more warranted. Those are subjective too but at least they are more heavily dependent on superficial criteria.

There are some obese males and females who are quite androgynous. They "pass" better than me because the public can't tell. I assume that's not what people are striving for when they try to pass but it illustrates why the concept of passing is too complicated and fraught with tension when discussed.

A short anecdote:
I absolutely hate flying but had to do it quite a bit in my last job. On one of my return trips home I was wearing jeans, a grey sweatshirt, no makeup, and no jewelry. I just wanted to nap through the flight because I think flying sucks. An older guy sat in the middle seat between me and this other girl. Of course the guy was super chatty and I just wanted to him to shut up. He apologized to us ladies (his words) for being so talkative but said he always chats to people on flights. I didn't say a word because I was honestly trying to sleep. He continued to refer to me and the women on the other side as girls in his conversation. I was actually quite confused because I was not trying to look feminine at all and was in full airplane passenger slob mode. Ironically, I was wondering if I should be offended! It was several years ago and I'm still perplexed to this day why I read as female to him.

[suzanne]

Passing is not as important as being presentable, which is much more achievable. Dress yourself in clothes that fit properly and look tasteful and age appropriate, then behave in a friendly civilized manner. It turns out that's all the world expects from you in return for their respect. The same rules apply whether youre a MIAD or Andreja Pejic.

I make no effort to pass as a woman. I do everything in my power to be presentable and I act like it's not a big deal for me to be wearing a skirt. The response? Its not a big deal to them either and we get on with what we were doing.

[DaisyLawrence]

Many in this community confuse "passing" with "blending in". In order to pass, you would have to NEVER be read as a male and that is virtually impossible unless you lived in a cave all your life. With the right clothing, makeup, wig, or whatever, we can to some extent go pretty much undetected in public....some more so than others, but there's always going to be someone who will pick up on the fact that we're males. Some of us just don't do a good job of presenting ourselves as "females" for various reasons and are easily read by the general public. Does it do any good to tell these "girls" that they pass, only to have them go out and be spotted immediately and possibly be made fun of and having their confidence shaken? We need to be told what we NEED to hear rather than what we WANT to hear. TRUTH is support too !

Exactly! I've been banging this drum for ages and regulargly get criticised for it. Diane is correct, what is needed on a forum like this is honesty even if it seems cruel. Better to get the truth in your own home from a friendly sympathiser than to learn it the hard way in the city centre in front of hundreds of onlookers. Sometimes in life you have to be cruel to be kind.

[Tracy Irving]

If someone is trying to blend in and is looking for an honest opinion or even a little constructive criticism, then go for it. Beyond that, we don't know the intent of the original poster so I don't default to a "that will never work in public" point of view. I thought the gallery was more for fun, get dressed up and have a photo shoot or show off a new item.

[Teresa]

Gracie,
He had two females with him in the car and it left them all speechless , as I walked away in my heeled sandals , skirt and Tshirt with my bag sluns over my shoulder .

That shopping centre is great , I've been most of the shops and chatted to the SAs , they see me as what ! I can't say for certain but they do treat me like a normal human being and not some freak .

I find Lexi's comment a little hard on the ones in transition or thinking of going down that road .

[Helen_Highwater]

Majella,

Your post"anyone brave enough to dress up and post a picture gets an automatic A for effort. But I don't believe people are being honest in their over-flowing praise. Telling someone that they "PASS" when they clearly don't is doing a dis-service." is, without doubt, true, and having read the replies I think it's fair to say that there is a bit of a sea change taking place were blending is being used more frequently and more importantly, more honestly.

Stood in front of an SA I'm getting read. If I do post a picture while I will take any compliments I can get relating to my dress sense and over all look, if someone replies that I pass then as your title says, they're either blowing smoke or need to go to spec savers, and I know it!

I know from experience being out and about that I can blend. One time as I was leaving a shopping mall there was a car alarm going off in the distance. A GG who to was exiting said something like, "Oh they'll get back to a flat battery" and only when I made a reply did she realise I was CD. That I'll take any day, all day. She had seen a duck and only when it didn't quack like a duck, my femme voice isn't that good, did she really look. She was a little surprised but that was it. We still exchanged pleasantries and then went on our respective ways.

So I make it my policy to try to never use the "P" word when offing an opinion on someone's presentation. Telling someone they can successfully blend is more truthful, more realistic, kinder, more caring and in the long run far more helpful in aiding someone's journey.

[Becky Blue]

Interesting discussion ladies.. I have a few points to make.

Firstly you can't tell if someone passes by looking at a picture. Passing or blending in is being out there in the real world, that involves movement, facial expressions, different views from differing angles. A photo obviously is fixed at a moment in time. So telling someone that they pass in a picture means they look like a woman in that picture.

Secondly being nice and telling someone they look good is not saying you look like a super model, its actually saying all things considered you look really good.

There are a lot of people on here for whom taking a picture never mind posting it on the internet is a huge thing, i think its better to be encouraging and not criticise unless posters ask for constructive comments. If every time anyone posted a picture they received a whole lot of critical comments people would just stop posting pics here.

Thirdly the concept of passing 100% what does that mean? For the entire time you are out every person that sees you believes you are a woman? I believe in the concept of blending that means giving out sufficient female markers so that most people will not look closely enough at you to suspect your anything other than a woman. I believe given most women don't look 100% like a 'perfect woman' its not that hard to blend in if you dress to suit your body shape etc... Having been out quite often I am fairly confident that most of the time i blend in as thus far i have not been aware of anyone picking me.

[Julie Slowinski]

I like this subject. For me, I know I don’t pass or blend out in the world and I’m okay with that. I actually prefer people know I’m AMAB. To do so I engage in conversation (with my male voice) whenever the opportunity arises. No confusion, no pretending, no problem - I guess similar to a MIAD.

More to the spirit of the thread, I think this site should have more discussion about crossdressing technique. Makeup tips (specifically M2F contouring and YouTube videos that we have found helpful), selection of outfits and accessories that diminish our male features and give the illusion of feminine features, wig selection to help create a rounder more feminine face shape, correctly proportioned hip pads and how to make them (my favorite part of dressing). There is a science to crossdressing and if one has time it’s not that hard to learn. The wealth of knowledge contained in the collective of this community is vast, but few seem to ask about it. I suppose there is some of this in the Clothes, Shopping and Beauty section, but that section seems a lot less active than the others. It that spirit, I highly recommend this site for tips and tricks - helped me out immensely
https://feminizationsecrets.com/

[bridget thronton]

I have reached that point that I can see the beauty in almost everyone (passing is over rated - happiness is better)

[Shelly Preston]

I like this subject. For me, I know I don’t pass or blend out in the world and I’m okay with that. I actually prefer people know I’m AMAB. To do so I engage in conversation (with my male voice) whenever the opportunity arises. No confusion, no pretending, no problem - I guess similar to a MIAD.

More to the spirit of the thread, I think this site should have more discussion about crossdressing technique. Makeup tips (specifically M2F contouring and YouTube videos that we have found helpful), selection of outfits and accessories that diminish our male features and give the illusion of feminine features, wig selection to help create a rounder more feminine face shape, correctly proportioned hip pads and how to make them (my favorite part of dressing). There is a science to crossdressing and if one has time it’s not that hard to learn. The wealth of knowledge contained in the collective of this community is vast, but few seem to ask about it. I suppose there is some of this in the Clothes, Shopping and Beauty section, but that section seems a lot less active than the others. It that spirit, I highly recommend this site for tips and tricks - helped me out immensely
https://feminizationsecrets.com/

Julie

That is why we have a Clothing and Beauty Section

[Stacy Darling]

Blowing Smoke up someone's ass is scientifically irresponsible and has moral and karmatic repercussions!

I agree with you!

"Would you want a car which blew smoke"

Stacy!

[Micki_Finn]

It depends on how the photo is posted. If the poster is asking for feedback on their appearance, then it would be absolutely appropriate to give constructive criticism. If the poster is just saying “Hey this is me last weekend at an event in my favorite dress” then it would be highly inappropriate to give criticism.

[Teresa]

Julie,
What is also needed is , more people posting pictures of everyday events , it may be boring compared with dressing to the nines but what you choose to wear for a normal day , how much makeup .

Top of my list was getting the wig right ,that was the biggest boost to my confidence , makeup usually needs to be toned down so it knowing how to achieve that but still get the male tell tales hidden , I'm pretty well balanced so personally don't use any lower padding . I still feel that has to be used with some caution , living with the excess everyday may become tiresome , I prefer to be as natural as possible , just enough in my bra to achieve a balanced figure .

Again I'm going to quote Pat who told me to stop overthinking it , many of us search for perfection before we set foot outside the door , we have to be careful not to fall into the trap of going OTT searching for the Holy Grail of PASSING !

[Stacy Darling]

two-smoke.jpgas you requested!

[sometimes_miss]

I think *almost* anyone could pass as a woman if they are appropriately dressed, made up and have confidence to carry themselves properly.

Uh, no. The vast majority of men will not pass, no matter what you do with them. Even those made up to look like older women have something that gives them away. Yes, they did terrific make up jobs in Mrs.Doubtfire and Tootsie. No, it would not fool anyone in real life. We get entranced by Tula and Andrea because they made it as women even after going through puberty. They're a tiny percentile of 1% of the MTF population.

I've been out dressed in public many times and can easily blend but under any scrutiny I know I will not pass.

'Blending' has everything to do with the people around you, not you. If no one notices that you're actually a man in a dress, you've blended. If they notice, you HAVEN'T blended; your a man in a dress. Doesn't matter if they tell you. Doesn't matter if they are tolerating your existence and not saying anything about it. You haven't blended. It's for this reason that all those who think that they 'blend', probably aren't.

I don't think it's a necessity for them to pass as women, but rather they pass as looking attractive.

What percentage of the population thinks that a man in a dress is attractive? And if it's only whether the crossdresser thinks he's attractive, then what does it matter?

I tend to agree with Majella, but on the other hand I've seen some GG's that I thought didn't pass.

Yes, but upon that instant secondary evaluation, it immediately becomes obvious that they ARE female. With us, it's the opposite. And that makes all the difference in the world.

There are some obese males and females who are quite androgynous. They "pass" better than me because the public can't tell.

Well, yeah, we can. As previously mentioned, there's almost always a secondary give away that discloses whether the person is male or female pretty quickly.

Passing is not as important as being presentable, which is much more achievable. Dress yourself in clothes that fit properly and look tasteful and age appropriate

What's presentable, tasteful and age appropriate is still defined by gender to the rest of the world. Justin Trudeau might dress in his wife's finest fashionable and age appropriate attire, but it would never be considered presentable to the general public.

I find Lexi's comment a little hard on the ones in transition or thinking of going down that road .

It would be far more damaging if they proceeded to transition based on the idea that they would pass or blend, only to find that they were still considered men in dresses by the rest of the world. MTF TS are, to pretty much everyone else, just MTF transsexuals. As much as we in the gender friendly group wish it were true, straight men and women do not consider MTF TS to be women; they are referred to as transsexuals by lay people.

Firstly you can't tell if someone passes by looking at a picture. Passing or blending in is being out there in the real world, that involves movement, facial expressions, different views from differing angles. A photo obviously is fixed at a moment in time. So telling someone that they pass in a picture means they look like a woman in that picture.

Exactly. But that's not what they're going to read into it , because that's not what's written. What's written, is, 'You pass'. So that's what they wind up thinking, mostly, because that's what they want to believe so very, very much.

Secondly being nice and telling someone they look good is not saying you look like a super model, its actually saying all things considered you look really good.

Then why not write 'all things considered, you look good', instead of writing something that can be easily misunderstood?
Because they want to hear that they appear to be a GG. So we tell them what they want to hear. Then in a later spot on the forum we see that they really believe it. And that can only lead to disappointment or worse.

Thirdly the concept of passing 100% what does that mean? For the entire time you are out every person that sees you believes you are a woman?

yes, that's what passing means; no one can tell that you're a man.

I believe in the concept of blending that means giving out sufficient female markers so that most people will not look closely enough at you to suspect your anything other than a woman.

^that's passing. If no one notices anything that gives you away, you've passed. And it's unbelievably difficult for a genetic male to achieve. Well, I guess not unbelievably, because most of us know just how many things give us away. And it only takes one.......

I believe given most women don't look 100% like a 'perfect woman'

No, but they don't have giveaways that hint that they're NOT women, either. And even those that do, are quickly recognized as GG's by everything else they present. Just like it's a rare man who's not recognized as one within a few seconds no matter what he's wearing, it's a rare woman who's not recognized as one within a few seconds no matter what she's wearing, as well.

Having been out quite often I am fairly confident that most of the time i blend in as thus far i have not been aware of anyone picking me.

As above, blending is determined by everyone else. Not the person who is trying to blend. You won't know it if it happens. Only they will. Because most people simply don't want to be bothered, and most don't like confrontations. This is why so many think that they are blending so well; no one's walking up to them and asking if they are actually men.

[Solange]

I would have as much luck passing as a woman as a Mack truck would masquerading as a Ferrari. That's totally ok because I'm not a GG, I am a CD. I own that identity. There are those who want to transition, and that's fine, but it's not me. I love being an enigma, a larger than life fantasy strutting in platform stilettos; but I also dream of sitting around with a group of gurls in pantyhose and dress shirts talking about everything from eyeliner to nightgowns.

I won't say I don't ever wish I was a beautiful GG, but I love the audacity of CD glamour. I don't care if you have a face like Sam Gamgee (hobbit companion extraordinaire), you're all gorgeous.

Kisses,

-S

[Becky Blue]

Lexi..do you really think that by telling someone they pass on an internet forum thats going to make someone do something they were not going to do anyway? Or that because someone is complimented here they ate going to think or do anything stupid, give some people some credit for basic intelligence. It is not unbelievably difficult to blend many of us do it often.. and again you seem to think most of us are a bunch of deluded blind stupids... when I am out I am well aware of what is happening around me, I use the woman's bathrooms regularly and i know that thus far I have not been picked.. I do not have a good woman's speaking voice so for example I have engaged with SA's when shopping and I have seen the surprise in their faces when i speak, the double take that says oh your not a woman. I am not saying I always pass/blend i am sure some people have picked me, but on balance i do most of the time.

[Sara Jessica]

Lexi, I agree with a lot of what you are saying but somehow you have conflated passing and blending and even went so far as to apply the passing standard (one will never know if they truly pass) to blending.

Blending is simply a much lower bar. Presenting in the real world in such a manner that you may get by a glance (or two or three if you are really lucky) before being read as trans-whatever. At that point, one continues to interact in whatever situation just as was done prior to being read. You hold power in the form of presentation and confidence. Others hold power in terms of acceptance at best, tolerance at worse without degenerating into something confrontational or ugly.

To blend doesn't mean in any way that others do no read into who or what you are. In fact, the epitome of blending is absolute knowledge that others will in fact read into who or what you are. What matters is how you deal with that knowledge.

I've received some pretty bitchin' compliments over the years but I cannot bend over far enough to blow smoke up my own a$$ to convince myself that I have passed. What I have done is navigated the real world in so many situations, with and without amazing friends, to know that most out there are more than willing to allow others to live and let live. I'd say that is pretty blendy if you ask me.