Fem. Outward

[Sara Jessica]

Sara Jessica, listen up girl,
1/ Wrong, women do CD all the time and it's accepted. They wear men's shirts, male football jerseys, men's jeans because of their deep pockets, men's uniforms including work boots, pants, shirts, tie and caps, jackets even T shirts that are men's underwear. Sad thing is if a man looks better wearing women's clothes as described above he is criticized; why are women given this free pass and men not treated the same??? and that is the reason for this post, equality.

2/ Be the best you can be, if you can dress as a woman does and look better than her that's just all the more reason to CD. Ever see the male to female transformations, the men always go from average looking to a beautiful, feminine woman. As CD's we emulate women, we want to pass and be accepted as a woman, personally I would love to look like a Playmate or Calendar girl.

Listen up girl? Really?!?!

Sorry to break it to you but men are the gender with more wiring issues than women. The rare woman who "CDs" is much more likely than not to be doing so based on gender identification. The man who CDs much more likely than not is doing it based on something tactile, visual and/or sexual, or at least began doing so from that perspective. Women simply don't approach clothing from that same POV.

I know not of women who wear men's clothing for any of the reasons you cite except perhaps team jerseys but regardless, it is quite a stretch. WOMEN DO NOT CD IN ANY WAY REMOTELY CLOSE TO WHAT A MAN SUCH AS YOU DOES. As has been said, they have blazed their trail already. If you want to fly that flag, by all means go for it but please don't complain about this being a form of inequality.

As for any of us looking better than her, please drop that male bravado and competitive streak at the door. Women do enough of that amongst themselves. Most men trying to compete lack a key element, grace.

[deebra]

Sara Jessica as a MtF CD I can't believe you said males have more issues than women, have you never been around women? I agree male CD's get more out of wearing the clothes and presenting (sexual and feels good to present as a woman) BUT put a woman in guy clothes and a male dressed as a woman society will accept her and throw rocks at him. Society and wives and girlfriends do not treat each equal. And the last point, CD's that dress as you are dressed can and do learn grace and female mannerisms which lets them pass. If you look at MtF videos you will see a passable CD has perfected the entire presentation; voice, mannerisms, setting, walking and emotions. A lot of women could learn from this CD.

Daisy, I answered all your questions but lost it when I went to page 2, sorry; to long to re wright.

[Charlotte7]

I suppose this discussion comes down to whether or not women wearing male clothes, (a normal everyday occurrence for (most?) women) is cross dressing or not. As it isn't breaking down any cultural norms, as it isn't being done for any reason other than wearing clothes to keep warm, and as there is no further motivation in wearing a male garment, to my mind, it doesn't come close to being cross dressing. But, there are other opinions out there which may be valid too. Without wanting to ruffle feathers here, and I'm referring to cultural norms not what is possible etc, it seems to be a case of women wear men's clothes because they can, men wear women's clothes because they can't.

[Sara Jessica]

Sara Jessica as a MtF CD I can't believe you said males have more issues than women, have you never been around women? I agree male CD's get more out of wearing the clothes and presenting (sexual and feels good to present as a woman) BUT put a woman in guy clothes and a male dressed as a woman society will accept her and throw rocks at him. Society and wives and girlfriends do not treat each equal. And the last point, CD's that dress as you are dressed can and do learn grace and female mannerisms which lets them pass. If you look at MtF videos you will see a passable CD has perfected the entire presentation; voice, mannerisms, setting, walking and emotions. A lot of women could learn from this CD.

Whatever.

First of all, you clearly know nothing of me and my POV.

From there, you cannot let go of an erroneous premise that women run around wearing guy clothes as commonplace and that doing so is their version of CDing. LET IT GO, women generally do not engage in such behavior in numbers anywhere remotely close to guys who CD. Might this be that they have more fashion flexibility? Sure, but at the same time, they have earned this right. Like I said, blaze your trail as you have been doing and in 50 years things might be different (but I doubt it). Women didn't blaze their trail to wear guy clothing. They did so to wear styles of clothing that they made their own. You are free to do the same.

As for grace, many CDers don't want it. Some couldn't find it if they tripped over it. But to imply that women can learn from a CD, what planet are you dialing in from? It is just another less-than-veiled swipe at women in your view who do not meet your femininity-meter approval.

Do you want respect? Be who you claim to be without stepping on the women you emulate. Fly your freak-flag as you see fit and feel free to share what it looks like. Until then, you are a faceless pile of words that can be purveyed by anyone with a computer keyboard.

[Tracii G]

Women that wear what deebra calls male clothes are clothes made for women just styled more like mens clothes. The term is boyfriend jeans or boyfriend jackets.
Still they are women's clothes not men's.

[DaisyLawrence]

Daisy, I answered all your questions but lost it when I went to page 2, sorry; to long to re wright.

Well as anger is a motivator why not channel that into writing it again and this time lets see a photo of you so we know what you are describing all the time when you look 'better than real women' (don't worry, no face needed if you are shy).

[jacques]

hello Deebra,
I understand what you mean. As a bearded crossdresser I choose to wear the dresses at home. However, occasionally wearing women's versions of "men's clothes" and some light make up in public is quite daring for me - it pushes my boundaries and I enjoy it.
Each to their own!
luv J

[Teresa]

Deebra,
I've read through the replies and really feel the problem is the eternal one of being a MIAD . My recent thread about my neighbour gives a fairly clear view of what the public think . It does give a confusing message and unsettles some people .

It is obviuosly still a problem judging by the number of threads on a similar theme . So the question is what is the basic problem why you can't with some good help even possibly prefessional to totally dress with makeup and a wig and see what a difference it makes with the public response . I wouldn't and couldn't do MIAD because I want to integrate , of course I get read but not with an outspoken reaction . It's all a quick glance and then it's over , I for my part don't look for any reaction so it passes without incident .

I told many stories often very funny about shopping in drab but those days are gone , I have fun with SAs but there is no . " Jaw on the floor !" look from anyone . I shop now as any woman would and enter changing areas without thinking .

It's all very well telling a MIAD to just go out and own it but it's no good complaining when it doesn't work out like that , the general public aren't members of this forum , they don't understand your appearance . I saw a CDer in my old home town last week , he/she looked like a pantomime dame and she attracted a great deal of attention . A guy next to me didn't say it but his look had WTF written all over it .

[Tracii G]

Maybe CDs and transsexuals that at least try to blend or integrate if you will people tend to just think its not a big deal.
When a bearded man or an obvious mans man is wearing a dress and high heels people think wow now thats odd I wonder whats wrong with him? What is he trying to prove?
Its just harder for the mainstream public to understand a MAID and be more rapid to judgement.

[docrobbysherry]

Well as anger is a motivator why not channel that into writing it again and this time lets see a photo of you so we know what you are describing all the time when you look 'better than real women' (don't worry, no face needed if you are shy).

Daisy, I have often wondered why someone like deebra, who posts so many effusively detailed posts that almost brag about her presenting androgenous looks in public, is too shy to post EVEN ONE PHOTO of her looks here. Not that I care what she looks like, but sometimes I'd like to see if it matches what I imagine she described!

But, to date she will not post a photo or even explain why she won't!

[deebra]

Doc I am not very good on a computer and have no one to teach me how to post a pic so I can't. I would love to get an opinion of how I though I passed in black 3" heel boots and long black boot cut jeans, I also look good in a black mini skirt and heels with and without hose. I would love to post a pic in heels wearing a thong or panty and with and without hose BUT I get tired of writing a post and having it cancelled.
As far as Teresa said getting a professional make over and dressing fully as a woman and passing......Impossible. For years I worked out in a gym, a lot of that is still with me (arms, chest, shoulders) and can't be discuised so I do the best I can to blend. You can't make a shark into a grizzly bear. However I have fully dressed and gone to CD parties.

Traci I talked with a SA in women's clothes when I was buying girl jeans, she said a lot of women buy guy jeans for the deep pockets. Girls and wives wear their man's clothes all the time, they are loose and they think it's cool. If the guy said O.K. I'll wear your panties and jeans she would vomit; O.K. for her, sick if he does the same thing. We are women, there are no limits, we wear what ever we want, we make the rules; O.K. for us, not you.


Daisy in my city and surrounding there are a lot of military and millions of people. As a guy put on a girl sequined blouse, girl jeans or skirt and heels and go in a grocery store; you would be the freak of all freaks, jeered, laughed at and made fun of and mavbe get your a** kicked in the parking lot.

[Teresa]

Tracii,
That is the basic problem , acceptance here whether using a picture or not is far removed from people in the street , most of our fears are based on what they think and not members here .

Deebra,
You have to let that mindset drop , the fact that women wear male clothes doesn't relate to our CDing . In your reply to Daisy I assume it's tongue in cheek about the outfit for grocery shopping . Most of us would attract more attention and possibly get some adverse comments if we dressed that way . I might be a slight guy but the years of carrying heavy photo gear have left me with well toned arms and shoulders , I know they give me away but I just live with it , maybe you are doing yourself down too much .

I look at it more now that if I had trasitioned this how it would be, warts and all , the fact I am now fulll time in my new home town . The other point about my situation is not many people know me in guy mode so they have nothing to compare with, they only know me as Teresa , again it's another reason why being MIAD can't work for me , I'm not giving a confusing message .

As for computer use and posting pictures maybe the help section might give you a some suggestions how to solve it .

[Shelly Preston]

Moderator Note

It is a personal choice if a member wishes to post pictures or not.

We should all be respectful of that.

[Tracii G]

I agree posting a pic is a personal thing Shelly but deebra says she would but doesn't know how. She could go to the help section and learn how to post a pic. I did thats how I learned.
I'm not a whizz on the computer either deebra so if I can do it you should be able to as well.
Maybe its time to step up your skills and back up what you post with a pic.
I would actually like to see some of the outfits you say you look good in because they sound nice.

[DaisyLawrence]

This is a help forum Deebra. Why not do as Tracii suggests and if you get stuck posting the pic that you want to then just ask for help. We will be all too happy to try and help you.