The stress of living two lives and the genderless trend

[sarah_hillcrest]

I've been semi-dressing around my wife alot the last few weeks, mostly at night after work and mostly just comfy nightgown Ts and dresses. She's grown used to it, though I think she would have a problem if I was wearing my boobs and wig, and why would I want to do that anyway. I've been looking forward all week to doing makeup, wearing my wig, and leaving the house as Sarah this morning but my actual life got in the way. I made a choice to spend the day with some friends instead of hiding out alone. It was a good choice and I had a great time.

The entire time i was with them I had zero pink thoughts, driving home I came to the conclusion that I was wasting too much time on girly pursuits and I needed to redirect myself to being the best man I could be. Then I got home and saw where I had taken off my bra before I left with them and felt strongly compelled to put it back on, and the dress too.

My online persona, the male one is constantly in competition for time with my female persona, and often the female wins out. The male version of me is neglected.

I keep thinking how much easier it could be if I could just stop all this subterfuge, and just combine Sarah and me, we like all the same things mostly. LOL

I had an interesting discussion with a coworker this week. She's openly bi-sexual and very forward thinking. We got to talking about gender issues somehow and I expressed that while I was all for people expressing themselves and trans people having equal rights I wasn't a fan of the current genderless trend that I'm seeing in today's younger people. She claims that the entire concept of gender is antiquated and is phasing out. I told her I thought gender was an important part of the human experience, and we had a very interesting discussion. I kept wanting to tell her that I felt like I was transgender, or sometimes I felt like I was, but that I definitely liked her clothes better then mine.

[Rachael Leigh]

Sarah, I think I know what your saying, myself I’m non binary and I do kinda have two sides but I do blend them both
many days. Yes it can be a bit exhausting but for now it’s who I am

[Beverley Sims]

Sarah,
Keep a lid on telling your co worker until you are absolutely sure that she will share that conversation with you.

Family and friends are important and when you engage in activities with them your interest in dressing does wane.

In fact any outside interest that takes up your time does suppress the dressing cycle, that is normal behaviour.

It is good that you are not pushing the issue with your wife and boobs will become accepted later on as will a wig.

Remember other interests do go away for a while and then you can get on the bandwagon and dress again.

Sometimes it is frustrating but don't let that bother you, just do what comes along and go with the flow.

[GretchenM]

Your situation sounds very familiar because until the last year or so I was much the same way. It was a gentle competition for who is going to take the lead when. Not really very comfortable but workable. I had experienced mergers in the two identities in the past six years and they were very nice, but there was always a split later and I was back to the two identity pattern and the competition.

Then I experienced another merger. Didn't happen suddenly but rather a gradual change over several months. Very different than previous mergers that were sudden. Wish I could figure out why they happen or how I made it happen, but, alas, it just seemed to happen. This time the split never occurred. Basically, rather than thinking in a binary fashion about gender it has become a single identity that just spans a wide and continuous range of the spectrum of traits and characteristics that define gender.

I think the binary condition was due to only paying attention to the ends of the total span and not recognizing that I can also be any combination thereof and recognizing that my identity exists on a sliding scale that ranges from moderate masculine/male to moderate feminine/female. These days, most of the time I hang around the middle of my gender range but depending on what is necessary I can slide off toward the ends of the scale and then come back while being comfortable at any point within the range my gender identity spans. Far happier.

I think everybody's gender occupies a comfort zone on a really long spectrum defined by many, many traits and characteristics. Cisgender people have a narrower range and get uncomfortable when they enter into a part of the total spectrum that they are not accustomed to. I am the same way - strong masculine and strong feminine makes me squirm like a worm. Of course I do not know whether this pattern would fit you, but you might try using a different concept of gender, one that doesn't really recognize two more or less independent identity forms but rather one that just spans a far wider range of traits and characteristics than the gender of most people does.

[Rachelish]

I keep thinking how much easier it could be if I could just stop all this subterfuge, and just combine Sarah and me, we like all the same things mostly. LOL

I've come to the opposite conclusion, that my male side works better when my female side gets regular time out

[Sara Jessica]

Your entire post up to the paragraph below can be summed up in one word, balance. I used to struggle with the same thing but I never kept my eye off of what was truly important. Living your life while hopping back and forth over a gender fence can be stressful, especially when you know you aren't being the best you can be at either one. For me, it seemed that by definition being better on one side had an almost equal and opposite effect on the other side. Add to that the relationship issues that can come with being who we are and it is no wonder why many of us are faced with so much frustration.

When I used to slip into periods of despair, a very like-minded dear friend would pull be back with a reminder of balance. Ultimately, such a mindset made coping with my gender issues much easier which led to my decision several years ago not to try to drop anchor on one side of the fence.

The next part is either a fortunate or unfortunate byproduct, depending on how you look at it. I am currently at such a state of peace, of equilibrium, that although nothing has changed in my heart and soul, the expression part of this whole thing has taken a back seat to fulfilling the responsibilities I have to my family. Perhaps this is another manifestation of balance with the pendulum swinging a bit further to my left than I'd ever have expected but all that matters is that I am experiencing a sense of peace that hasn't been there for many years. With this peace is a variation on the happiness theme and I am comforted to know that I can hop back over the fence at pretty much any time to reacquaint my heart with her desire for expression.

I had an interesting discussion with a coworker this week. She's openly bi-sexual and very forward thinking. We got to talking about gender issues somehow and I expressed that while I was all for people expressing themselves and trans people having equal rights I wasn't a fan of the current genderless trend that I'm seeing in today's younger people. She claims that the entire concept of gender is antiquated and is phasing out. I told her I thought gender was an important part of the human experience, and we had a very interesting discussion. I kept wanting to tell her that I felt like I was transgender, or sometimes I felt like I was, but that I definitely liked her clothes better then mine.

This could be an entirely separate discussion. Notice how I referred to gender as a fence? The beauty is that there is a strong movement towards eliminating that fence altogether. Will this ever make the concept of gender antiquated as suggested by your friend? Kind of doubtful in my opinion, the gender binary is so entrenched in most everything we do and many/most will resist all moves to blur or eliminate those lines. And even though I think such movement can be ultimately helpful for people such as you and I, I too am not particularly interested in tearing down that fence. Regardless, there is nothing stopping any of us from dealing with the fence as we see fit, to become part of this movement in an effort to find that balance that is best of us as the individuals we are. This is not one-size-fits-all.

[Jaylyn]

I'm riding the fence on this one. There are certain things when dressed as macho male that can trigger my female side. At that moment I can't do anything about it but when I get home alone I can revert back to that feeling. In reverse sometimes when I'm dressed I'll think of something that is totally male and try to get the job done while I'm dressed which if requires going outside I'll have to go get into drab.
I took a test once on my brain wether I was left brained or right brained. ( I was surprised I had one ). But back to thevresultscit showed to be directly centered. The lady giving the test said come back in an hour or so and take this other test which was similar to the first one but different activities and questions. She looked at it and said I've never had this happen before you sorted exactly in the center of the spectrum. My wife took the test and she was definitely left brained, my co workers all scored either definitely left or right. The test giver simply replied you are middle brained. I was just thankful I had one but I've always thought it was because I find myself thinking critically and flighty sometimes at the same time and on the same subject. Wife has always said I'm glad I married you as you always see both sides of the conversations. I jump from day to day in the gender world also. It seems. Sometimes I want it the femme side and then a few hours I'm back to the male side. If I'm with my grandsons I'm always 100% macho male. My grand daughters I'll get in the floor and play house with them. I couldn't tell you before hand how many times I've wanted to dress then go the opposite way ten minutes later. When I wear my panties and male clothing it seems I'm in a neutral calm zone. Doing a macho job in the female mode I'm distracted more. And can't finish what I start.
Do genders jump back and forth by visual stimulus or by brain waves with triggers? A lipstick commercial and I'm ready to go get dressed. A jeep commercial and I'm ready to go camping hunting or fishing or any thing macho.
I've always felt I'd be better if I just stuck to one side.

[Teresa]

Sarah,
We know we have the female trait , it has needs and desires and it will never leave you , it is part of you so somehow you do have to reach the point where the two can combine . It can lead to so many problems being suppressed, it usually ends up in a form of depression. You are denying part of your being the right to exist , would our wives and partners be able to live with that pressure . That is the question and conclusion I came to , it's all very well playing the male part to please others but at some point we have to consider ourselves and what all our needs are .

[DaisyLawrence]

My online persona, the male one is constantly in competition for time with my female persona, and often the female wins out. The male version of me is neglected. I keep thinking how much easier it could be if I could just stop all this subterfuge, and just combine Sarah and me, we like all the same things mostly. LOL

This is where I struggle to understand many of the folks on this site (sorry). You see, I am me, there is only one me, I just happen not to be an binary alpha male. Why do so many of you think you have a split personality? Is it that the conditioning is so great that you can't let go of who you thought you were before you realised you could be so much more? Why not just allow the feminine side of you into your everyday life and be the person you are. It doesn't mean you have to wear a dress all the time. For me, I can express myself in a not male/not female way that people find easy to accept. They can see I am different on the one hand but not the feared 'tranny' to avoid on the other. Sara, your statement "we like all the same things mostly" suggests you are thinking of yourself as two separate personalities (isn't that actually a disorder?). In reality is there not just a single you?

[Stephanie47]

Yes, I do believe having two distinct personalities is a mental disorder. That's predicated on the assumption the multiple personalities don't know what the other is or has done. I don't think that is the case with the majority of MtF cross dressers. I am fully aware of who I am dressed in my male attire or female attire. Right now I am fully en femme and feel very comfortable. I feel very comfortable expressing myself in male attire. I do not see society becoming genderless at all. Society, hopefully, will continue to progress in the direction where men and women will be judged on their abilities. Women are no longer pushed into nursing when they should be doctors. There are increasing numbers of women who are attorneys and not court reporters. There are increasing numbers of women in the STEM fields. Women are no longer just "cooks." They are chefs. The list goes on.

So, where does Stephanie fit into all this. Stephanie never had an urge to go to work in a dress. More correctly, no desire to emulate the female sex at work. The work I did was done by men and women. Stephanie seems to appear when there is an inner drive to offset some negativity in life. A form of escapism? Perhaps. As I have stated numerous times I feel down right comfortable in 'holy' cutoff jeans, white tee shirt, no socks and shoes. Other times, like today, I feel very at ease totally en femme.

A counselor I see for combat related PTSD offered her opinion that each man or women has some degree of dna of the opposite birth sex within them. In some it is great than others. Is this the cause of homosexuality? Perhaps. Is this the cause of transsexual issues, MtF or FtM? Perhaps. Frankly, it sounds better than anything else I've heard in trying to explain myself since Stephanie seems to arise when stress or bad memories flood my brain. I view Stephanie as the soothing counterpart of her brother. She is better than alcohol and drugs, whether legal or abusive drugs.

How I express myself is rather simple. My core values have Zero to do with the attire I wear. I never approach a task or situation with the thought this must be done in a masculine or feminine manner because sexual identity has nothing to do with the task. For me wearing women's clothing is a form of escapism. Maybe decades ago that was not the draw since those things I experienced necessitating the wearing of women's clothing happened way after I dabbled in my mother's lingerie draw. That would fall into the context of my counselor's belief.

I don't know the answer for anyone else. I just am able to full function dressed as a male or a female. However, I do know I have self imposed limitations on my dressing because subjecting myself to the ills of an unaccepting society runs counter to the desire to live a rather stressless life.

Does all this make sense?

[Teresa]

Daisy,
Different members here have different acceptance levels , different committments and different circumstances . They are forced into this back and forth situation , expressing yourself to reveal some part of you can or will be totally misunderstood by some people . Sarah's wife has laid down her limitations and Sarah is trying her best to stay inside them to retain marriage harmony .

I don't agree with this situation it isn't fair but for me to come to terms with has cost me my marriage , Sarah is trying not to pay that price and it is a tough call . No one is in the wrong it's just a lack of understanding and acceptance .

There is no single book of rules we all have to use personal copies , Sarah has to find ways of working through hers and she's asking for a little help .

To some of us there is the split of male and female because the female side is being partly rejected , I've just about combined those two sides and now feel balanced and comfortable but it has taken too many years and at a high price .

[phili]

I think we are having trouble with semantics- what does 'genderless' mean to various parties?

We can be more specific- like 'minimizing differences in expression, power, and privilege between males and females', or 'freely allowing expression by males and females in ways that used to be assigned to one or the other". In that last case, Sarah would agree and say she wanted to wear clothes like her coworker.

Sarah, sounds like you are hoping for another conversation! It could be helpful to get to know her more before talking about liking her clothes- that could be perceived as too personal too soon. You could convey the same message by saying you like women's clothing styles, and see what she says.

[Tracii G]

Another situation with no answer which leads to members arguing over semantics and eventually getting the thread closed and no help for Sarah.

For me it was best to combine the genders and live my life on my terms.
That is what brought me "balance".
Sarah you don't need to be one or the other because you are one person.

[docrobbysherry]

For years after I first began dressing at 50, I found throwing on nylons and heels to be both diverting and stimulating.

But eventually, that wasn't enuff. So, I'd add a bra, forms, girdle, and a wig. Erotic and exciting! For awhile.

Since then it's been all the way or nothing for me.
Either a shapely, pretty woman looks back at me from my mirror. Or, a frumpy but comfortable old man.

If I blend I see a frumpy old man in a few bits of women's clothing! Where's the joy in THAT!?

[Charlotte7]

Sarah, the way that I see it is that our western society has two genders and that we are expected to fit into one of them. Society expects us to conform and not to rock the boat. However, it hasn't always been this way in the west and there are still many places around the world that have more than one gender. Life and how we experience it is personal to us, and if we don't fit to the exact cultural norm, then that can both be a problem and not a problem. To me, it's how we deal with that which is where the problems may lie.

I don't go out and about dressed, even though I identify myself as transgender, and in that I mean that, to me, I have the boy part which is the way that I was born, but I also have a deep seated girl part which is always there and also very much part of me. It is important to me that I am able to express the girl part as and when I need to, which is very often. I am lucky that I am able to do this. But, I am not two people, I am one person, I am me. Also, I am not genderless, I am both genders, at one and the same time. Now, when I am out and about, because I don't go out dressed, then I present as male, this doesn't mean though, that I am male and have left Charlotte at home, as Charlotte is as much part of me, as is Charles (not my real name). I still have Charlotte thoughts, I still have Charlotte wishes and desires, it's just that, outwardly, at that moment, I'm presenting as Charles (not my real name) and not Charlotte. Likewise, as I sit here, in my black pencil skirt and matching top, I am outwardly Charlotte, but Charles is still in there as an equal part of me.

And this is how I live my life, not as two people, but as one, where the two bits are joined together to make the one person. I suppose an analogy could be a person who can speak more than one language, depending on where they are and how they feel, they will live their life, speak, think and even dream in one language, but at other times, the second language will come to the fore. Perhaps a simple analogy but it may help.

So, to sum up, and this is my way of looking at all of this, I am one person, not two and both parts of me are equally important and always there regardless of how I am outwardly expressed. It is never a case of boy time or girl time, it's is all just me time. I hope this helps and that you find the comfort and peace you so obviously deserve.

[DaisyLawrence]

Charlotte gets it! Happy days ahead for those that think like Charlotte.

[GretchenM]

Thank you Sarah and I hope you have found some ideas and thoughts here that can help you. It is an amazing thread to be sure. So many beautiful ideas and thoughts from each person.

Gender is such a complex aspect of our lives, especially when one is like us and has this gift or curse, depending on your point of view, of being able to identify as both in a gender binary society. The science is pointing toward, for most of us anyway, this characteristic not being some subconscious choice we made one day but rather a built in imperative. To me I don't personally accept the genderless path - perhaps a step too far and maybe derived from a denial of gender so one can cope with the duality when living in a life of just one person. But I certainly see why others choose that path and would not do anything to tear down their concept. We all view the world through different eyes and we each seek different ways to formulate our personal path through this seemingly impossible maze we call existence.

I don't think there is a one size fits all concept but rather, by trying different things, thinking different things, behaving in different ways, we each seek a pattern that fits us as individuals and provides the comfort and confidence we need and deserve. It comes down to what fits you and not what social norms expect of you. I think those social norms are built out of an incredibly diverse population that becomes compressed down to a binary that more or less fits the majority and is consistent with our social, political, and religious experiences and heritage.

But that does not mean all must fit that idealized concept for the diverse population still exists even though the societal concept has congealed into a binary view. For some there is a fence you must step over and pass from one identity form to another while for others there is no fence but just a private grassy meadow that is continuous to us and has no boundaries. And a multitude of other visions. Thanks to all.

[Maid_Marion]

If you hate romantic comedies but have to see Crazy Rich Asians you may want to look for something similar. The film contrasts the culture of "traditional" China versus "Americans born in China." It is a very popular film for some because they got tons of cultural nuances in the movie, so much so that some people forget that it is a Hollywood Romantic Comedy meant to sell to mainstream America!

[Shely]

Sarah, You have described my situation completely. I have also been thinking, if this would just go away, how content I could be. But it doesn't seem to want to leave me. In face I choose to chase it every chance I get. It seems to consume all of my other interests and hobbies. My wife knows about Shely and seems to, at least, put up with it but we never talk about Shely. I know for sure I don't want to be a real woman, I just want to dress and look like one. Sounds a little silly doesn't it? But boy when I am fully dressed, as I am right now, I'm stimulated to the max. Oh well thanks' for the thoughts, and Hugg's!

[Tracii G]

Shely for you it sounds like an obsession of sorts if it consumes all your other interests.