Is this the end?

[Joanne Curl]

8 years ago I came out to my second wife after we’d had two kids together 5 from our 2 previous marriages. Yes I married her and never told her I was a cross dresser (I have been since I was 9). I never gave her the chance to choose and truth be told it’s probably what ruined my first marriage. In addition to being a cross dresser/transgender I’m also a coward.

Saturday we had a great day together alone as empty nesters. We even had great sex that evening for the first time in months. Yesterday afternoon we had too many cocktails and it loosened our lips and my wife decided she wanted to talk about the unspeakable - Joanne. She knows it’s still part of me and I don’t deny it anymore. I love my wife more than anything but I also know I can’t deny this femme part of me. She cannot accept me with the femme part. She loves me but not with Joanne. I don’t know how we go on from here. I can’t go on with out my wife. Counseling is not an option.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

My heart is breaking. I don’t know what to do or say. Please help me. Please help us.

[Alice Torn]

You are in a tough tough place, but there maybe options.. The human is a very adaptable being, as hard as it is often, to have to give up something dear and near. I am losing my very special cat of over ten years tomorrow, having to have him put to sleep. I have taken him to a vet, and tried to keep him going over a week now, but he is not getting better. Have cried and prayed hard. It wil lbe a tough grieving, as I lost another beloved kitten in June. Change is the only thing constant, it seems. You may have to give up dressing to stay with the woman you made a vow to. If she is adamant, and will have no compromise. I hope she will reconsider a DADT, or don'[t let me see it, situation, but that is tough too. Would be sad to divorce over it. Maybe, if no compromise, it would be good to separate for a short time, then get back together. Maybe write her a long, heartfelt, honest letter the good, the bad, and the ugly letting her know you love her , and cherish her , and would never want to lose her, but you have this one part of you, that is not the whole of you. You are still her man, and loyal to her, and she is the one you love, but none of us are without quirks and oddities, and cding is very much a part of you, but not the whole you. If she is honest, she will admit she has some oddity or quirk, too. I feel for you. I have not been married ever, but have run into brick walls with the women i told, and most said it was just wrong, and did not try to understnd at all, and that i can rise above it, and not do it anymore. They don't, and maybe can never understand this thing in a man to have a strong desire and compulsion to wear certain items of womens clothing. I am now pretty much a confirmed lifetime bachelor. I no longer can handle the stress and conflicts of trying to date or form a relationship. I don;t have the energy for it anymore. Women like to change the men they date or marry, and ultimatums seem common. I love women for sure, but do not have the energy to deal with being lectured and controlled.

[carhill2mn]

Your dilemma has been experienced by many on this forum. There is no easy answer. You are being forced to make a lesser of two evils choice. If you truly cannot live without your wife then that is your answer. But that means that you will somehow have to deal with not being able to be Joanne. This can lead to unhealthy situations also. If you choose staying with your wife you will need to work hard at not being resentful of her and her restrictions. This will not be easy.

I wish you the best of luck.

[docrobbysherry]

Sounds like you've been living a lie for quite some time. Not telling your SO and then hiding Joanne for 8 years. Why is that not possible for u now? Especially since u can't live without your current wife?

There must be something you're either not telling us or denying yourself!?

[Tracii G]

Its a tough spot to be in but as Carole posted above there is no easy answer.
I think both sides need to work on what works for both and does not shut off one side completely.
Does she know about this site and do you think she would want to be part of the group of women that have CD husbands? Its the FAB portion of this site (female at birth) they discuss things in an all female environment.
Maybe she would benefit from talking to wives of CDers.
That may work in lieu of going to counseling.
If she has known about Joanne all this time what has changed her mind to now say she wants no part of it?
She may be using your past CDing as a cover for her desire to be single again or hiding something else.
This is all conjecture from my side of the aisle but food for thought.

[DaisyLawrence]

Joanne. A dilema indeed. I like Alices' suggestion of a letter, often works so much better than trying to get the words out. As tracii says, if counselling is out of the question, maybe she could get something out of the FAB section, she could get the experience of other wives in the same position. Also Tracii has a valid point as far as can you think of some reason why this has suddenly become such a big problem after 8 years? Could there be a different problem that she doesn't want you to know about? It seems strange after you two had such a good and loving day only the day before. Best of luck.

[char GG]

Sounds like you know how you got yourself into this mess. You realized you took her freedom of choice away when you didn’t reveal what you seem to think is a big part of you. She is most likely hurt and/or angry. You’ve lived in the shadows this long, will she accept you returning to the shadows? Is she willing to continue the communication while you both are sober? I wonder why you think counseling is not a option???

If you truly can’t live without her, sounds like you can choose between her or dressing, unless there is some kind of compromise. You are the only one who knows which is your greatest priority. I wish you luck.

[Joanne Curl]

I guess I didn’t explain myself well. I can live without cross dressing. However, even if I don’t crossdress I’m still a crossdresser and Joanne is still part of me. I have tried for years to deny it and I can’t. It will always be part of me and I can’t lie to my wife about it.

My wife won’t go to couples counseling. We went she first were married before she knew about my cross dressing and won’t agree to see anyone about it because she knows thinks they will side with me and she doesn’t wNt to change her min d and doesn’t want to have a relationship with a “woman”.

[char GG]

Sorry there aren’t better options. Sounds like the ball is on your court.

I’m really wondering if you can live without cross dressing??? If so, you probably wouldn’t have bothered to post about it.

Is your wife making an ultimatum? Or just relaying how she wishes life would have turned out? Sounds like you both care about each other. I don’t think this is the time to make any hasty moves. I wouldn’t cram it down her throat but keep communication open. Joanne may be “part of you” but how big a part? Are you still being the MAN she married? If so, make sure the man is there for her. The reality (in my mind only) is, you are not a woman so she is not having a relationship with a woman.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Joanne , I don't know what can fix this, Being between a Rock and a Hard Place

is something that we never really want to think about.

I wish you all the best. >Orchid ..oo..

[Bobbi46]

Its not the end by any stretch of the imagination all you have to do is keep the lines of communication open don't push your dressing on her, don't make it a make or break situation for her talk openly with her even has been mentioned put it all down in writing and use that to help your explanations so that you leave nothing out, keeping some salient point back by forgetting or not writing it down can copme back to bite you later. but overall be truthfull and not forceful at all, but I would if I was you soft pedal for a while and let her take it her pace and when she aske replies properly.
All is not lost at all, best wishes.

[phili]

I'm with CharGG here- and I have an equivalent standoff with my wife of 33 years.

First of all, nothing actually has to happen unless she is saying she is leaving unless somehow you have to ...what- not think of yourself as TG? That might be her just stating what she wants, but to insist would actually be just making up an excuse to leave you instead of living by the marriage vow and figuring out how to stand with you.My wife is not going to leave me, but she is going to complain anytime she has to think about me crossdressing, and is quite happy to pressure me mercilessly, as it is a way to discharge the tension of her negative feeling.

Think of all the things that can happen over life- from accident, disease, economic catastrophe, affairs, etc. Crossdressing or TG tendencies is an annoyance, maybe just REALLY disappointing. But that is not unusual as we get to know our spouses over decades. You both have equal standing and equal power in the relationship.

My wife cannot see a path forward with me being a crossdresser, but she does move forward each day on that invisible path, as do I, who can't see why she won't try to feel differently. Marriages drag on this way about lots of things.

We have a counselor who basically sides with her since he doesn't get crossdressing, but his suggestions are practical for her - making her at least feel normal, since a normal person like the counselor is handling the fact of my TGness and crossdressing as something normal, even if infrequent,and yet difficult for her.

So in a word, just bc when in her cups she wanted to tell you how much she hated your crossdressing, the world has not ended. It is just messy and sticky but what else is new? One of my secret weapons is to just let myself feel like a woman without crossdressing visibly. It turned out for me that the primary driver for crossdressing was to validate that choice. But now I know crossdressing is just fun and appropriate, not itself a deep need. THen I see the negative arguments of my wife as a power play!

[Tracii G]

Chars #9 post says it well plus coming from a genetic woman so that holds validity.
So your wife seems like she wants it all her way and doesn't give two squats about what you want or need to deal with this gender thing of yours.
She needs to understand you did ask to be this way you were born with it.
Her lack of compassion for what you are going thru makes me think she is trying to find her way out of the relationship.
Maybe the 7 year itch happened a year later than usual. Been there myself so I do know what I am talking about.

[Stephanie47]

Back in May 2011 you started a thread about this issue; your wife finding out about your cross dressing. Doing a little math you're 61. Back in 2011 you stated you had been married for fifteen years. So, now it is 22 years of marriage. I made some comments on that thread. Basically, after 22 years of being an otherwise decent husband the cross dressing issue has come back to roost. I would not be able to conjecture the cross dressing is a ruse to get out of a marriage because there are other issues; known or unknown to you. Kids and 22 years are going to be thrown to the wind? If counseling is a non starter, then what is there to do?

Frankly, for many women cross dressing is something so intolerable to them that nothing will mend the fences. No understanding. No boundaries. I read an article by a woman who indicated many women who have never seen their husbands in any women's attire have a mental image of him en femme. And, that mental image outweighs any sense of trying to understand or accept. If you were to take all your clothes out back to the burn barrel and incinerate them would that erase the issue? Will she throw in your face that you had been a cross dresser? If you seem depressed will she accuse you of longing to put on a dress? You could have a burn the clothes in a barrel purge and see where it leads. Total victory for her? A blissful marriage going forth?

One thing about my wife which in some respects drives me totally insane is she NEVER says a word. No snide remarks watching television. No sneers! Supportive of gays, lesbians and transgenders, but, does not want to be married to a pseudo woman. On the other extreme there is Judy who seems to be constantly bombarded by her wife about her cross dressing past behavior. That would more than drive me nuts.

I guess there are some women who just will not see past the clothes and weigh the good qualities of her man against his need to express himself differently than her image or vision of an ideal man.

Good luck. Or as I said back in 2011 I'll say a prayer for you.

[kimdl93]

Seems to me that if you can’t g on without your wife, you have two viable options (perhaps there are others I didn’t think of). 1. Abstain from dressing. 2. DADT.

People Les have a remarkable capacity to adjust their perceptions to match their desired reality. Perhaps “2.” Will be sufficient.

[Rachael Leigh]

Here is my advice because it’s so fresh for me. While being trans is hard and yes very difficult on our spouses you are going
to have to choose the important part of all of this. For me I waited to late to realize my relationship was more important than this side of me. Now with that said for those who have a very strong GD issue then splitting is the most likely answer
because if she just can’t be with you as a women then there really is no point. It sounds like in your case your kinda like me
your stuck in the middle not really wanting to transition but still having a fem side.
It’s tough and I hope you will find your answer
Blessings to you Joann

[SamanthaToday]

Hi Joanne, I think I know what you are feeling.

It's not that your wife cant go through another 8 years of marriage knowing you are CD, but rather there is no hope of you ever being able to be more than you are now.

And that hurts.. for you there is no future as Joanne because your wife hates it.

[Jaymie]

I guess I didn’t explain myself well. I can live without cross dressing. However, even if I don’t crossdress I’m still a crossdresser and Joanne is still part of me. I have tried for years to deny it and I can’t. It will always be part of me and I can’t lie to my wife about it.

My wife won’t go to couples counseling. We went she first were married before she knew about my cross dressing and won’t agree to see anyone about it because she knows thinks they will side with me and she doesn’t wNt to change her min d and doesn’t want to have a relationship with a “woman”.

Joanne, If couples counseling is not an option for the reasons stated above, why not just have her see a professional alone. She could obviously use some professional help with this problem by you not participating could help her with her concern about taking sides. Good luck... hugs Jaymie.

[Judy-Somthing]

My wife has been having a tuff time with the idea that I cross-dress she has seen me on a few Halloweens and thought no big deal.
I think that it's the idea that I dress behind her back that makes it bad.
I hate that it's been a roller coaster of emotions with her, one day she hats me , the next she loves me.
The only thing she has seen has been my sz. 13 heels and a hair brush.

Telling my two adult children last month seems to have helped, they told my wife "it's no big deal".
She hasn't asked if I still dress but , if she does I'll probably LIE! and just say I still think about it!

[Rhonda Jean]

I, too, thought my life would be over without my wife. If that's what happens, let me assure you that there IS life without her. I did't want a divorce. I would have promised anything. I would have tried extremely hard to keep my promises. She told me that I'm a woman, and that I can't change that. She was probably right. Probably similar to you. Divorce was hell. It was awful. A lot of wonderful things have happened since that absolutely would not have happened if I'd stayed married. I'm 60, and still on a journey of discovery!

[Beverley Sims]

I am with most others here, you do have to speak to someone even a favourable counselor by yourself is a start.

[Di]

I am with most others here, you do have to speak to someone even a favourable counselor by yourself is a start.

Agree if she will not go you need to and be honest.

My advice comes from Sherlyn and my relationship / it was part of her and if that’s true for you then maybe after seeing a counselor - maybe she can eventually go but point is maybe a compromise.
Best Wishes

[Teresa]

Joanne,
The counselling situation sounds familliar , my wife didn't want to know , it might have been better if she did now but that's water under the bridge.

The comment about taking sides , as if it has to be a battle that most wives want to win , the suggestion that we do is wrong and we can turn it on and off like a tap ,it has to worked out. Admitting you are a CDer is tough enough , most usually suggest it's harder on the wife/partner very few fail to see how hard it is for a man to admit to being a CDer , the guilt tears some of us apart . I did say to my wife on more than one occasion that she should try living with something in your head you can do very littleabout . It is a powerful force that has needs that have to be satisfied .

OK you admit you should have come clean after it ended you first marriage , but there's no going back on that now , that's history and you need to know how to deal with your future .

The problem you face with going for counselling is maybe you wife will assume what my wife did and that is you can be fixed or cured . I think you should write it down to explain what your needs are , the only way out of this is being honest and see where the dice land . She may accept like my wife did for a while that you find an outlet through a social group . I know it's not an ideal situation only time will tell if you can win her confidence back .

[Tracii G]

Many women don't think they need to go to counseling because you are the one with the problem in their eyes.
If they will not go with you then I tend to think they really don't care about your feelings only theirs.
It takes both to find a way to make it work and only you going to counseling I don't see working because she isn't being part of the solution.

[Crissy 107]

Very good point Tracii!