I've read through your posts and its clear you do NOT understand the difference between sex and gender identity. The women here who identify as a woman are no less valid then your wondering if there is something between cross-dressing and being a transsexual. At least try to have a bit of compassion.Originally Posted by Vicky_Scot
It's generally difficult for people to understand those who are different than they are. Most people don't have a frame of reference for things they haven't experienced or witnessed themselves. Have you considered posting in this forum's section for trans-women, with like-minded spirits?
https://www.crossdressers.com/forums...nssexual-Forum
Or maybe this section?
https://www.crossdressers.com/forums...der-Non-Binary
Why don't you read a page or two of threads in each of those sections to see which you feel most comfortable identifying with.
Last edited by ReineD; 10-21-2018 at 05:17 PM.
Reine
I had a feeling this thread would end up like this.
Reine,
I know what I am and what other trans-women are, we are women. That question was aimed at a members who kept insisting that we aren't women. It was an attempt to get them to think and state what they thought we are.
Paula ... stay, please.
Words are just that, the only power they have is what you give them. People get REAL brave from behind a keyboard.
You are who you are, just as we are who we are. Everyone is different aren't they? Hair color, eye color, skin tone, weight ... but we're all still people.
If someone has a problem with you or what you do ... that's their problem. I am not here to please anyone, and could not care less if someone doesn't like me or what I do.
What and who are you? To me you are Paula, plain and simple.
Last edited by Nastasha; 10-21-2018 at 06:29 PM.
1 of my dearest friends is transitioning, and I have many aquaintances who are trans women or men, and would defend them to the hilt. Its so sad that you even needed to start this thread,
I hope and believe most on this site are decent, understanding people who have nothing but respect for Trans Men and Women... though after reading the thread fully I'm not so sure now
Sophie
Last edited by t-girlxsophie; 10-21-2018 at 09:25 PM.
We look to Scotland,for all our Ideas of Civilisation-Voltaire
========================================
A woman who loves to wear beautiful clothes is like a flower.
A man who loves to emulate these women is a special flower-a roseFacebook:Sophie Johnson
Sophie said it all for me really. I would say this however: there are lots of people on this site that I profoundly disagree with on many levels. Sexist and misogynistic views are common and yes I have seen trans-phobia but also many more examples of homo-phobia. What I try to remember is that all human beings are different reagardless of whether or not they share something in common. The theme here is an interest in wearing womens' clothing and that ranges from the extreme sexual fetish at one end to the transexual at the other and that is about as varied a group of people that you can find in humanity as a whole. Consequently we are not all going to agree. For me it is a gender identity issue only and when I read the kind of stuff Paula refers to it dismays me but does not anger me as I am sure it is not written with malice. I assume that the things that Paula finds offensive were not intended to offend her when then were written. It was just an end result of maybe a lack of understanding, general ignorance of the issues, or an underlying internalised transphobia even BUT (and it's a big but) I do not subscribe to the theory that these people intended to offend. There is plenty of intentional offence banded about out in the real world, at least here the membership is open to being better informed by reading around the wise words of many of the members here.
Life is short people, try to see the good where it is and just ignore the bad, please.
Daisy
Kelly I think with all respect you need to re-read my original post as I seriously think you missed the point I made. A person wants to be regarded a woman but does not help their cause by stating they are a trans-woman. Therefore by definition they are not regarding themselves as a woman. what is difficult to understand about that.
And just to put your mind at rest I DO understand the difference between sexuality and gender is but that is not the argument here.
Hi Paula,
Thanks for using my comment as one of your 3 examples (the middle one). You can think whatever you want in your own head, good for you, but show me a REAL lesbian (GG) who would be in a sexual relationship with a trans woman who has not undergone SRS. Being a lesbian is a SEXUAL orientation, not a gender. Gays like D, not V. Lesbians like V, not D. If they do, then they’re bisexual. Please stop confusing gender with sexual orientation/preference.
Why question the prefix trans- when used by a transgendered individual and not when "genetic" is used in front of girl or the initials GG are used by an individual born female?
Many years ago, my wife and I visited a sex-shop in Brighton which was aimed at lesbian/female clientele, indeed males were only allowed in one particular showroom when accompanied by a female. We went into that showroom and were confronted by a huge selection of dildos and realistic strap-ons. Proof positive that some lesbians like D, even if it is of the artificial variety.
Rachel,
As a crossdresser my personality has several facets. Therefore, I suppose I can be forgiven for being facetious.
Rachel I have never met a woman in person who was born a woman and refers to themselves as a Genetic Female.
Vicky, "Genetic Female" is not a term I used, it sounds just as ludicrous as "Trans-female" which, I believe, has not been used, but you only have to look to one of the contributors to this thread. Reine, a member of the "FAB - female at birth" forum, uses the term GG - genetic girl under her name. You can't argue that it is just the abbreviation GG, because many crossdressers among us often just use the abbreviation CD.
Last edited by RachelPortugal; 10-22-2018 at 12:40 PM.
Rachel,
As a crossdresser my personality has several facets. Therefore, I suppose I can be forgiven for being facetious.
I think on occasion there are critical and somewhat demeaning comments made by a minority of posters in all forum sections (where i'm allowed) on occasion. I think they occur most often when the poster appears to be posting in a section they don't seem to identify with. Purely an example: a Binary individual posting in Non-binary. This is purely an observation not a justification by any means. There is no excuse to demean anyone!
Everyone has their opinion of gender, for me, I'll refer to people the way they wish to be referred and in the absence of a clear signal, I would ask.
I don't know how much you have been around here. I'm saying that because your join date was 2012 and you only have 185 posts in six years. You probably missed many other threads that turned out to be CD Vs TS. I don't make posts in the TS section and from my observation it's very rare for any CD to do so. But TS post in this section quite often. That's a positive thing until these disagreements come up and someone feels offended.
"You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder
Ressie,
You're right my post count isn't high, and you want to know why? I've found you learn more if you keep your mouth shut, or in the case of this forum, your fingers still, and pay attention to what others are saying/posting. If I post it's because I have something that I feel is material to a thread, and if it's already been said I won't repeat the thought. Unlike others I don't post just to say things so that my post count goes up. Something to remember is just because someone isn't posting all the time doesn't mean they aren't actively following the forum. As far as missing threads, I doubt that I've missed many in the six years that I've been here as I'm on almost every day reading and hopefully learning.
This whole thread was never started as a CD vs TS thread. It was started because I was noticing what appeared to me to be a growing trend of statements being made that could be taken as offensive and insulting to a sub-group that I am part of. Are there other sub-groups that may feel this way, I would have to say yes based on PM's that I have received so it's not just me or one specific sub-group that feels this way.
The whole point of this thread was to try and get members to think about what they are posting and how and can affect others before clicking on the "Post Reply" button.
Thanks Paula. There are some here with strong opinions and see some things in black and white. And I'm afraid your asking them to think before responding won't stop them from sharing their strong opinions. But thanks for speaking up.
"You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder
It seems to me that we're back into arguing about labels. Paula, if you want us to call you a woman to your face, we will. We'll call you whatever you want. but if you want the world to consider you a woman just the same as one who is born female, it's not going to happen, as much as we all wish it could.
Hormones, surgery, nothing will change what we are. Labels won't change what we are.
I can insist that I am a dog, I want to be called a dog, treated as a dog, allowed to behave as a dog, etc.. But few are going to be willing to adopt me, take me for walks, feed me, let me poop on newspaper in their basement, or to pet me and rub my belly in order to get my hind legs going, well, because I'm not a dog to the rest of the world, no matter what I tell them.
You are a MTF TS. Don't get upset if that's what people believe you are, and have trouble dealing with it. In YOUR mind, you're a woman. In everyone else's mind, you're a MTF TS. Which is just fine. And it's YOU that has to come to understand and accept, that there's nothing wrong with that! Insisting that you're not what you are, because it makes YOU feel uncomfortable, is not everyone else's problem. It's yours. We can try to make you feel better about it, but that won't change how most of the world thinks of you. Better to accept who and what you are, and be comfortable with it.
I'm a crossdresser. I admit that and have to live with it. I've accepted it. Be who you are, and don't try to take someone else's label, you know, like how the fat people stole the 'curvy' adjective because they didn't like being called fat.
I'm also fat. I'm not 'big boned', 'husky', etc.. I'm fat.
In the end, we are what we are, and trying to change the words won't change anything.
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
Used frequently in MTF circles, short for “Genetic Girl” or “Genetic Woman.” A “female born female.” . There are many Women on this forum who have referred to themselves as Generic Female or gg for short. Some even use the term in their alias.
I think it's understood by most people that a woman is defined as an adult female (XX) which is objective rather than subjective. I would imagine that men (XY) who identify as women would give varying explainations as to why they identify as women. So my question is; what are the characteristics they possess that makes makes them women? As a CD I understand the desire to express femininity but, for TS persons, there must be something more to identifying as a woman.
Paula,
Don't give up on the forum. It is full of truly wonderful people that will be there form you and love and support you no matter where you fall on the gender identity spectrum.
Understand that forums like this do not have context. Often the intonation or intent of what we read is what we bring to the table. Sometimes not and it can be obvious and hurtful, if you choose to let it be.
A past mentor of mine used to tell me that other peoples opinions of me where none of my business, "It's just not your garbage.' was how she put it.
I can't quite know exactly how you feel but as a "man in a dress", (no choice here, it's just the way it is) I have been on the outside of many conversations and comments by those whose only goal is to pass perfectly, every time or there's no point in trying. I do my best to understand their point of view and move on knowing that tomorrow, I will see something that I need to see or that will make my day.
Again, this forum is a wonderful place full of wonderful people. I hope you hang around.
I am Me and Me is OK!
Shelby
Terrylynn, if you want to know what characteristics define a woman (and it may vary with each woman for herself), the one obvious one is, grow up as a girl, with girl parts, and with girl experiences. You can't get that with boy genitals. If you wish to learn more about personality differences between the sexes, perhaps some light reading by Barbara and Alan Pease will help (Here, pick one: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...and+alan+pease ).
They explain many of the ways that men and women think differently, communicate differently, and even how they see the world differently, that are natural differences between the sexes. While I'm sure that some MTF's will grab that information and try to change themselves to 'fit' into what they now have learned is a 'more female' behavior and way of expressing themselves, it's sort of only like practicing to get rid of an accent. What's underneath, is still there. They're actively suppressing it, the same way that one might work hard to develop a feminine sounding voice; the male voice is still 'the default' unless we intentionally change it (FTM's don't usually have this problem, because of the actual structural changes that come with exposure to testosterone, but it doesn't work the other way around for MTF's). Hormones can work wonders to change feelings, but the underlying male mind is still there.
The XX chromosome combination is only part of it. What defines someone as a woman to the world is, or has always previously been, having the phenotype (all physical structures of the body) of a female. At least upon birth. You will find the rare female who is born without a vagina, for example. Then you have the intersexed, who may have some combination of male/female genitalia, sometimes resembling more of one than the other. There are those who appear physically male with XX, and those who appear physically female with XY. Rare, but they do exist, so the old belief that if you're XX you're always a female, and if you're XY you're always a male is simply wrong. But you'll still see a lot of people who appear to have had their scientific education halted in 6th grade, who refuse to admit that there is more to learn, that insist that's still the case.
Perhaps the argument that may be offered best, is this: How many 'genetic' girls do you know of, that grew up with a penis, testicles and scrotum? Because growing up as a girl with girl parts, being treated as a girl, with all the experiences of growing up a girl, is a big part of being a woman.
How do I know. Well for one, I read a lot, and I listen to women A LOT. And .....because I was a BOY growing up with all male parts, thinking that I was actually supposed to be a girl. And it seriously messed me up forever. Sure, I can function well enough, most of the time. But there will always be that screwed up part of me that causes turmoil under the calm exterior. The end result is, I'm not a normal man, nor a normal woman, personality wise, and I never will be. I don't know what it is to experience life as either. I can study it, observe it, wish for one or the other, but neither is available to me. As hard as life has been, I still consider myself lucky that I have been able to still function without the almost crippling GID that some have to endure. I can't imagine what that is like.
Last edited by sometimes_miss; 10-23-2018 at 02:57 AM.
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
I understand, but I don't think you can expect all members who don't identify as women to understand how you feel. But generally, the people who post in the other sections I linked to don't identify as men and so if you hang out in those sections, there will be no one to convince.
Reine
Trans-women aren't "cis"women.
That's not my opinion, that's just truth.
redtea, I don't think the question was are trans-women cis women. It was are they women in a broader sense., which in my definition they are.
I would think it is the minority and in all walks of life there is always a minority that seem to spoil it for the majority
We are all here because we are perceived as different to society norms, or at least that is the way I see it, I love to cross dress and I have no drive to ever be a woman full time, but even in our supposed more open society, if my friends knew what i liked to do in my spare time then some would be supportive and some would be downright rude about it, I can hear the dissenters now
I like to come here because largely it is a safe place to come and we can be who we want without fear of people looking down their noses at us, we are all here because we are different in some way and I think speaking for me personally, because i know about me and what I like and accept that I am different from the perceived norm then it gives me a more relaxed and accepting outlook
One of my closest friends knows about me and so does my female partner and my ex wife, my friend never mentions it and she has not treated me any differently from the day I told her
you stick around and enjoy the majority of this forum that needs you to be here to share your experiences with the rest of us
It was a fantastic day for me when I found this forum, somewhere safe to go and share with others like me
And for the record as far as I am concerned if you have transitioned to be a woman then you are a woman and I would treat you as such
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