Is MIAD as a term too all embracing

[Stephanie47]

I really appreciate threads of this nature. They are a lot more thought provoking than "What are you wearing today," although I do enjoy those too. I was somewhat surprised by Teresa's statement. Excluding someone because of who he or she is or may be? That is the raging debate in the United States right now. Genetic testing to include or exclude a person based on two letters in the alphabet, x and y. I have relationships with men and women, who are married to same sex partners. I have family members who are African-American, Mexican-American, severely disabled, and, so on. One big melting pot of genetic material. I also have acquaintances who intentionally exclude people like those in my family or circle of friends and acquaintances. As being the "odd man out" which is what I surely would be labeled, I can not find it in my heart to exclude anyone for who they were born as or to become. If I reject anyone for who they are, then anyone is entitled to reject me. No double standard here.

As I stated above (#4) I do not understand the thought process involved in a true MIAD. I do have, as I indicated, some conjecture on the issue. But, that is no more than conjecture that people may have about myself.

[jacques]

hello Becky,
What does the term MIAD embrace? If crossdressers try to look feminine I don't think the term applies. So that leaves perhaps to types of MIADs
- men who like to crossdress but don't make much effort on the feminine shape, wigs and makeup
- men who wear clothing they consider to be unisex
I am happy to be a man with a beard in a dress and have no real ambition to be more passable.
luv J

[Veronica Lacey]

I want to see fewer labels, not more. Ultimately, I just want to be known by just my name, which is a male name because I'm not trying to be, or pass as, a woman. I dont want this conversation "Hi, Z, how's the crossdresser game?". I want "Hi, Z, nice dress" and then on to the next subject.

This is as succinct as I can imagine. No analyzing, no judging, no labels. Observe, accept, move forward.

[Cassandra Lynn]

Before I go and spew all over Teresa's thread, and I don't want to hijack yours too much Bec m'dear, I do think I should give as honest an answer as I can.
A new term? Maybe, but the main problem in all this and lots of terms and labels revolves around basic errors in using common language.....imho.

Miad should mean exactly what it says and Majella makes a strong and valid point in post #23.

Like I said earlier, and Teresa is once again painfully pointing out for us, MIAD should not be used for a male who is trying but failing to look feminine in a wig, make-up, accessories, shoes and the whole nine yards. That's just not only idiotic and unfair, it's an insult.

Cass

[KimberlyJean]

I was under the impression that MIAD was for those that 1. Identifed as male 2. Made no effort to pass as a woman. I don't consider myself a MIAD because I identify as a woman and regardless of how successful, I dress smartly and appropriately in order to blend in.

I do believe we should be tolerant of everyone not just the people in our group. I had an awkward conversation while I was out, an at home crossdresser was showing me pictures and while I empathized with him I didn't feel any sort of connection.

[AllieSF]

Teresa, We all went through a similar thread in the past where you presented the same opinion with almost the same words. In that thread you clearly made your case and from MIAD's they gave all their reasons men in dresses (MIAD's) do what they do, and the key figure was Phili, regularly used as an example. Now after all that time you come right back and wonder, is in your statement above "The point I can't understand is why put yourself through that , there is no end game with dressing in that way ." What do you mean no end game? Phili goes out all the time and the fact that he gets satisfaction is more than a at least one end game for him. Does he also have to dress so that all other CD's, NB's and even TS's get the same happiness when he is out? He is only doing it for himself, which I believe is what the majority of us are doing. Yes, we may want others to like how we present and accept us, but that is really secondary for those of us that go out all the time. We do not worry about what others think nor do we really care.

In my point of view you are being insensitive to many of our members here and to those similar others out in the real world. I have a simple code I try to follow here. It is not always easy for me to follow sometimes, but I make every effort to do so. I try to treat everyone equally and respect their right to be and present as they want, even if I do not care for it. If you do not like to see MIAD's out in the real world, what would you say to those that do not want to see you out there either? There is always someone who wants to take the bar for acceptability, passing, blending or "correctly" representing us to a higher level than you do. Why even set the bar at any level? That always goes back to many past threads here that one should make the best effort when going out to blend in as best possible, dress your age, and don't make the rest of us look bad. Why does one need to do that and who are you, I, or anyone else to say what level of effort is acceptable by those few of us that actually can blend in more easily that others. You and I and some others may be gifted to have those desired personal characteristics, but what about those others, who don't meet up to your or others' standards, and who gets to set those standards?

You do not have to associate with anyone that you do not want to associate with. I don't either. But to state here that you still do not understand and then expect to get new answers that might change your mind with a new thread explaining your reasons, makes no sense to me. The thing is that the idea is strange to you and you really do need to meet a friendly and confident MIAD to truly appreciate who they are inside.

I truly do respect your struggles and current resolution to them. I am just like you and go out everyday, every moment in every circumstance as my real self, Allie. I also love to talk to strangers and anyone else that will listen to me. However, where we differ is that I very much respect people like Phili and others however they may decide to dress and present to the public and freely grant them the right to do so with no complaints, or "I just don't get it" comments to others from me, especially on a public forum with such a diverse membership from all over the place. I respectfully ask you to reconsider your comments and viewpoint, and welcome everyone under our large and mostly welcoming umbrella.

[Tracy Irving]

I joined this site because I thought we shared the common interest of crossdressing, whatever that means to each individual.

I must admit I find it hard the respect them

I guess I was wrong.

I'm confused and don't understand where they are coming from.

and have extinguished quite a bit of energy in an effort to stay confused, rather than educate yourself. It has been explained over and over by many members. Pull your head out of the sand and read their comments.

I wouldn't walk down the street with one or socialise with them

You may choose to live on a lofty perch but the blokes below you don't have to look up. I always thought crossdressing had to do with wearing the clothing typically associated with the opposite sex. That crossdressing did not require someone to think he's a woman. Nor did it require him to pretend to be a woman. Am I wrong? If not, what other groups do you discriminate against? Or is it just crossdressers?

they are expecting me to respect them for their appearance but not showing the same respect for me

Are there really people asking you to respect them? What members don't want you to dress as you wish, as you feel comfortable, as you are happy? Because I want all those things for you and everyone on this site.

to be tagged a MIAD maybe soul destroying

Name names. Who on this site is continually destroying your soul by calling you a MIAD? It seems as though the only resistance you get is from the wife you won't divorce.

[t-girlxsophie]

MIAD should not be used for a male who is trying but failing to look feminine in a wig, make-up, accessories, shoes and the whole nine yards. That's just not only idiotic and unfair, it's an insult.

Cass

This in my humble opinion is best thing I've read on this thread, let's not squeeze everyone into groups that we don't belong in

Sophie

[Becky Blue]

Thanks for contributing to this thread girls and making it really interesting with some illuminating comments. I want to respond to a few posts will also explain why I posted the OP...

OWPIDS.

Obsession With Passing Is Downright Silly. The key word being OBSESSION.

Wild, you expect respect from people here for the way you want to be, but in return don't seem to respect the girls who aim to pass? Why is wanting or needing to pass silly?

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Sounds as if to create a scale of gradations for judging a genetic male wearing women's clothing. On one extreme is the genetic male all dolled up en femme with proper makeup and hair and also emulating the gestures and walk of a woman. On the other end is a genetic male who is totally unshaven, maybe bald, and just wearing women's clothing. All I can image is the bearded lady at a carnival side show. I think the issue is coming down to "intent."

You have nailed what I was saying perfectly Steph

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Yeah, we need yet another label and subgroup to further fracture our community.

Roberta, I disagree I believe that the difference between intentional and unintentional MIADS actually help bring us together and you will see what I mean in my summation

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This is as succinct as I can imagine. No analyzing, no judging, no labels. Observe, accept, move forward.

why does every person who uses or creates a label be presumed to be judging? In no way shape or form is my OP judgmental

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Teresa .... Teresa ... Teresa whats to say?

MIAD should not be used for a male who is trying but failing to look feminine in a wig, make-up, accessories, shoes and the whole nine yards. That's just not only idiotic and unfair, it's an insult.
Cass

Thank you to Cassie and Jacques for helping me in making my point..

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Becky, unless you are a MIAD or IMIAD or whatever, why not let them decide if they need more detailed defined labels. They have to live with the label that they choose, not you or us who do not define ourselves that way. I do know that many here might say that they may look like a "man in a dress). However, the MIAD acronym used in posts has been used almost exclusively by those that go out in a dress with short man hair and no wig and maybe even a beard like Phili does.

Would you consider suggesting a new acronym for a TS who doesn't have bottom surgery because it helps you to better understand them or categorize them for your own benefit ant not the TS's benefit?

AND thanks to Allie for providing me the ability to respond and in doing so explain why i started this thread

Aliie I thought long and hard about posting the thread for the exact reason you said BUT here is why I did.. As an more experienced girl who has been out numerous times and has been around quite a while, I quite often help and mentor other girls, perhaps nubies or perhaps people who have been too scared to venture out or even dress fully... I continually hear the same thing being said and it saddens me... Oh I could never go out like you do, I would look like a man in a dress, I have big shoulders or thick arms (insert various male attributes). In my opinion there are girls holding themselves back as they think they are MIADS.. so i felt that this thread can highlight the difference between someone who wants to be a MIAD and someone who does not think they will look good.

Hopefully through this quite balanced discussion some people can get encouraged to see themselves all pretty and femm (if they wish too of course)

[AllieSF]

Thanks Becky. I have never had anyone say that they were afraid because they felt that they looked like a MIAD (a new term for me in the last year or so). However, I have taken several wonderful ladies out of their comfort zone here in San Francisco. However, when I first started seeing the term MIAD here it wasn't used much and was normally used by Phili or members like Phili. Yes, it has a braoder or more detailed definition now, that I see and better understand. I never heard that term used by those IO took out, but I see now that it may have applied to them directly. I like the the clear separation as stated in your sentence, "so i felt that this thread can highlight the difference between someone who wants to be a MIAD and someone who does not think they will look good."

[Becky Blue]

Allie as they say "if I had a dollar....

[GeorgeA]

Charlotte,
I've given this some thought and instead of hijacking Becky's thread I'll start a newe one to explain the point yopu make .

I remember you starting that thread and I even posted a comment. I was away for a couple of days and now can't find it.
Have you deleted it?

[Lydianne]

@Salerba: I don't think she did.

But I'm so glad that happened because that deletion is extremely symbolic ( although the authorities probably didn't intend it to be ).

I have read a few members here who identify as MIAD saying they felt unwelcome to post, and I understood that. But now, you got so much backup from members of other parts of the spectrum to the point that this happened. I generally do not advocate breaking the rules, but in this case, the cause superseded the rule.

I'm so glad it went down the way it did, and it's all credit to you all for the statement you all made in Phili's picture thread.

Welcome to the community! .

- Lydianne.

[Sara Jessica]

I remember you starting that thread and I even posted a comment. I was away for a couple of days and now can't find it.
Have you deleted it?

Someone must have gotten butt-hurt and the thread went poof which is ridiculous. You pour honesty and effort into such a conversation that was somewhat intriguing only to return and find it gone. Two can play at that game.

Poof.

[sometimes_miss]

We have to remember, that for 99% of us, anytime we wear female attire, all that we are, is 'a man in a dress' to the rest of the world. Doesn't matter if we are doing anything more in the way of altering our presentation or not (make up, body mechanics, voice adjustments, etc.). The only person we end up fooling, is ourselves. Everyone else sees us as a man in a dress (or skirt, or lingerie, whatever).
Most of society doesn't care, as long as you don't try to force yourself into their lives.
At some point, we have to get over it. No one sees us as women. Trying to 'blend' only pushes off the inevitable a few moments longer; there are simply too many physical differences and behavioral 'tells' that give us away for what we are.
Sorry to burst your bubble. But it's important to not have the pink cloud follow you around whenever you leave the house. Because if you're fooling yourself into believing that you're passing when you're not, reality can bite you on the butt, hard.
Enjoy feeling better by dressing up girly if that's what you feel the need to do. It's what all of us here, do.
Just be careful out there.

[Teresa]

Salerba,
My thread was running it's course so I requested it be closed, I came on the forum this morning to find it had been deleted .

Sara ,
Sorry you are wrong with your assumption but there's nothing stopping you starting a new thread up if you have the inclination .

Cassandra ,
You'll have to find someone else to spew over , sorry about that !

As for the rest who enjoyed the hypocrisy of finding fault with others while they can't see their own faults and failings , well I've decided I don't need it anymore , that's my final comment .

[Charlotte7]

Indeed teresa, indeed, but you do not, cannot and will not speak for me. The thread had life, it existed, many, indeed three pages worth of comments all spoke one way. You closed it. So mote it be.

[phili]

Lily Tomlin joked in a takeoff on Andy Warhol's famous painting of a Campbell soup can, - that "life" and "soup" were interchangeable! It is a useful metaphor, and here we all share an interest in sharing over our version of the life soup containing the ingredient of Crossdressing. Everyone is working out their soup recipes. Mock turtle and real turtle soups each have their place, and there is a wide variety of turtle involved, from flavor to whole turtles. Intuitive cooks and recipe advocates promote their approaches and results.

The only thing we have in common is the love of our version of crossdressing soup, and it is not too strange that we sometimes have trouble being polite to others with widely different views on acceptable turtle soup. But respecting each other's choices makes for better community life, and it is pointless to attempt to say we have the right recipe for others.

I think part of the motivation for slipping into that point of view is that we each are trying really hard to settle the mysterious drive we have, and when we think we have a solution it is only natural to assume at first that it might be useful to others. I was certain that some transformation dressers might benefit from my discovery that I could feel totally feminine without any transformation. Others have asserted to me that they are sure if I just tried transformation there would be no turning back. I love that advice, when it is heartfelt. It is positive and supportive.

Of course, when that morphs into mocking or classifying my approach as troublesome, wonder what is driving the need to make me wrong. I am confident and reasoned in my approach and am happy to explain. I can understand the urges, and I argue for forgiveness, so we can all continue to support each other where we are.

P1080450.jpg

[t-girlxsophie]

I'm still bemused that theres people posting on this site that choose to disbelieve those of us that go out wether CD or MIAD.passing,blending or neither are just having a really good time,and hell and it's minions don't follow us around drawing us dirty looks at every turn.Most people really dont care,yeah of course there's exceptions but frankly I couldn't give a toss about them

I dont lose it much on here so Apologies if this comes across as bad tempered but I really just wantwed to say it

Sophie

[DaisyLawrence]

Becky.

I don't know, I go away for a week and all hell breaks out! Going back past the brilliant replies from Tracy Irving, Charlotte, Phili, Sophie and Cassandra (amongst others, you said it for me, thank you) to your original post, what we don't need is another term. What we need is less terms. MIAD? Let this be the LAST time I use that term. What's the point of it? We are all crossdressers in one way or another. In fact, those that 'pass' are not (in the eyes of the viewing public) even really crossdressing at all as all anyone sees is another woman. I was out on the fells recently and one day I wore a 'trekking skirt' over my leggings. I was an ordinary middle aged bloke who happened to have a skirt on. I was, technically, crossdressing (a bit) and in an obvious way. I did not need labeling with a term that no-one else understands. In fact, all the terms used exclusively by the 'community' are pretty pointless if you ask me. If the general public don't know what it means then what is the point? Anyone seeing me on the fell wouldn't have said "did you see that crossdresser/transvestite/MIAD (delete as appropriate) they would have said "did you see that bloke had a skirt on?" or "is that a bloke in that skirt?".

And to the proud MIADs amongst you, stop using that term, you are crossdressers, people wearing the clothes of the opposite sex. By using the term MIAD you legitimise it and this encourages its use to describe a crossdresser trying but failing to pass, and using it that way is disrespectful. If you don't pass and don't want to pass then you are the visual representation of a crossdresser, no other term needed.

Respect is all that is needed. If we can't respect each other here, we can not expect it in the real world.

[Becky Blue]

I'm still bemused that theres people posting on this site that choose to disbelieve those of us that go out wether CD or MIAD.passing,blending or neither are just having a really good time,and hell and it's minions don't follow us around drawing us dirty looks at every turn.Most people really dont care,yeah of course there's exceptions but frankly I couldn't give a toss about them

I dont lose it much on here so Apologies if this comes across as bad tempered but I really just wantwed to say it

Sophie

Thank you Sophie.. as someone who has gone out 25+ times in 3 continents and 6 cities I cant tell you from experience no one cares, no one notices... When I go out, I do normal things like shopping or going out for dinner etc etc...99% of the time I blend in and no one gives me a second glance... if people discover i am a guy, they don't care... perhaps some are thinking ugly thoughts, perhaps one day someone will say something, it doesnt trouble me if they do.

Back on topic, all I was attempting to achieve with my OP was to try and point out that some people on here dress deliberately as men in dresses and that is very different from people who believe they can't look like passable women.

[Stacy Darling]

Respectfully Bec! Who gives a
I'ts only us which care
Stacy!

[Wildaboutheels]

I don't wear dresses. So what? The D letter of the term does not bother me. Many here can't/won't/ don't wear female jeans. Or heels. Or any # of other things. So what? It's their CHOICE.

People (CDers or not) are free to wear whatever they want when they are home. And free to wear whatever they want when they go out in PUBLIC as long as certain body parts are covered. It's the law in every state as far as I know.

Read the vast majority of replies. MIAD for most, has become an umbrella term for a man wearing some clothing item/s designed for women but is not trying to "pass as a woman".

It's both sad and troubling that on a site named Crossdressers dot com, some can't seem to understand such a simple thing.

[GretchenJ]

This is getting a bit personal for my taste, and on the verge of shutting it down.

let me add my 2 cents.

Do we need a new term for MIAD? It depends ....

To me, a cross dresser like transgender is an umbrella term. Inside that term , there are 4 different sub terms.

1. Transgender individuals who identify as female and crossdress (v) in order to order to match their gender indentity to how they feel inside. Passing is very important to them in order to feel a level of acceptance

2. Cross dressers who identify as male (and don’t believe they are female), but like to present as female and want to be as passable and they can possibly can.

3. Drag queens who are male and present as female, but present so “over the top” that the idea of passing is off the table, but it does not really matter to them, because they are presenting their unique individuality

4. MIAD which may identify as male, female or non-binary, but choose to dress in a hybrid approach in order to match their internal feeling. They have no desire to pass, but have a deep desire to feel accepted.

i am going to keep this thread up, but any disrespect from anyone towards anyone else will not be tolerated and will cause this to be shut down

[Charlotte7]

Gretchan, I can see where you are with your four groups and I think that there is some merit in what you say. However, of your groups, I am in group one. For me, my dressing is all about gender identity. However, I feel no need to pass. I have no need for acceptance. I say this because of the gender identity thing. For me, when women dress, they dress, and they dress as females. When I dress I do so because I am me. Part of me is female. I don't need someone outside me to acknowledge that, I don't need anyone else to accept that. And that is because it goes to the very core of who I am. It is me. And I know that. For me, nothing else matters.