Is MIAD as a term too all embracing

[Becky Blue]

Reading the other thread about dressing to pass vs MIADS prompted me to post a long thought view. I am not trying to be controversial either..

I think we need a new term MIAD is too wide a definition... We need a term for a MIAD who wants to look like a man in a dress ie Intentional .. IMIAD and then one for the people who think they can never pass and refer to themselves as MIADS. Many of these people probably are not MIADS they just don't think they look femm enough and most are probably wrong, or have not tried dressing fully yet. So maybe we need a better term

BTW Im not being frivolous there is a huge difference IMO between wanna be MIADS and wanna be more passable but have not tried yet or don't think they are...

[Samm]

I think the term MAID is fine. Maybe because I know what it refers to. I don't see yet another label or sub-label helping anything, or anyone. Even though, to your average everyday muggle, we are all MAIDs, I don't put myself in that box. For the record, I don't see you in there either, Becky. I think the whole MAID thing is pretty cut and dry. I don't dress female but present male. When I dress female, I do everything I can to present my female side, as in wig/makeup. So, I see myself in no way a MAID. But that's just the way I see it.

[Wildaboutheels]

OWPIDS.

Obsession With Passing Is Downright Silly.

The key word being OBSESSION.

However it is OK to be obsessed abut it, IF one can read minds.

I have numerous threads in the past..

People will never agree to just one term/phrase/acronym that fits them, although there are many ACROS that many will like. The possibilities are endless

Trouble with this Forum is that numerous members "do not like" anything less than a 100% effort and are quick to point that out every chance they get.

An opinion that HELPS no one.

I think MOHADD fits me best, not just in how I choose to attire myself (except when going to work) but in most aspects of my life.

Man Obviously Hearing A Different Drummer.

[Stephanie47]

Sounds as if to create a scale of gradations for judging a genetic male wearing women's clothing. On one extreme is the genetic male all dolled up en femme with proper makeup and hair and also emulating the gestures and walk of a woman. On the other end is a genetic male who is totally unshaven, maybe bald, and just wearing women's clothing. All I can image is the bearded lady at a carnival side show. I think the issue is coming down to "intent."

Unfortunately many men are "blessed" with male features that are genetically produced. My face can be clean shaven with no beard shine for most of the day. No hair on the legs or underarms. Born that way. Basically genetically hairless for purposes of cross dressing with the motivation to appear as a woman. Can I use the word deceive? I would not be comfortable declaring myself as a man wearing female clothing. My inner thoughts and motivations are more than that. When I wear the clothing of a woman it is not to deceive the public. There is a 'feeling' that overcomes me and encourages some inner motivation to announce herself. I cannot explain it to others because it seems so foreign to those not afflicted by it.

I have to assume a "Man in a Dress" is wearing the female garments for some other reason than wanting to appear as a woman. A bearded face with unshaven visible body skin strutting down the mall in heels. No makeup perhaps. Bald perhaps. Uncaring to public stares or ridicule?

Over the years of reading threads and posts on this forum there is a problem. Many are totally consumed by some image in their minds as to what a woman is suppose to look like. Yes, there are few hirsute women out there. There are many wonderful women who do not fall on the judging scale at a ten. Maybe they are are a zero, Or a five. Overweight? Too skinny? Flat chested? Too short? Too tall? Not the perfect face, whatever that may be. So, how many of us are consumed by the idea of being a ten?

I am six foot which is down from six foot two. I am 202 pounds this morning. Big bones. I an afflicted with male pattern genes. Women have always thought I was great looking. Ask my wife. When Stephanie appears...bursts forth for reasons known or unknown... she does not think of herself as a man in a dress. Unfortunately I do not make a womanly ten. I don't do the makeup. Most women don't do the makeup every day. So, unable to shed my male genetic physical profile I do look like a MIAD, but, my motivations and how I feel when wearing women's clothing is more than liking the fabric or colors or style.

So, what is your motivation for wearing the clothes society deems should be wore by a woman? Is the MIAD with a beard in some way denying his inner woman because his ideal woman cannot be achieved? In need of therapy? Stuck on the unachievable image of a ten?

[docrobbysherry]

I've often thot this, Becky. There r a few T's that r quite satisfied to throw on a dress and walk out the door. No; wig, makeup, heels, forms, etc., etc. They r INTENTIONAL MIADS.

While I spend over an hour prepping every time before going out. I wear everything fem u could possibly put on to look as pretty and fem. Yet, no matter what I do because I never pass, (except on Halloween), I'm a MIAD!

Maybe: Intentional MIAD, and unintentional MIAD?

[Robertacd]

Yeah, we need yet another label and subgroup to further fracture our community.

[Asew]

Yes, there is a difference between MIADS who have given up on passing but would like to and those who don't care about passing. Just like other classifications, we have different motivations and goals. I don't know if I see it important enough to coin a new term, but I could be wrong.

[RachelPortugal]

MIAD is not really all embracing, what about those that present as MISS, man in short skirt, after all they are not wearing dresses. We could make up lots of acronymic titles for ourselves, but surely as we are all wearing clothes designed for the opposite gender, we are all crossdressers, just like it says at the top of the page.

[Fran in skirts]

MIAD and MIAS are what? They are labels and they actually do nothing but cause what labels most labels do and that is create havoc among the people. They create hate and cause harm to people. I try not to use labels (but I sometimes do) they are for cans and bottles not for humans.

We are humans and I think we should act like nice humans at that. We should all try to get along with each other and not add to the hate and animosity that is already out there. We all have opinions and they are ours, they may not be someone else's. We should all try to understand each other and behave accordingly. My opinions are MINE and you may agree or not, your opinions are YOURS and I may agree or not. BUT we should all agree to get along with each other.

Just my

Fran

[Tracy Irving]

I am a crossdresser. Plain and simple. Enough said...

[t-girlxsophie]

I'm with Tracy,I'm a plain old Crossdresser,yes I do everything look as femme as I can,but I'm under no illusions I know i dont pass ,but I still don't feel MIAD is a description for me in any way at all.but fair play to those that feel its apt for them.We shouldn't get hung up on any labels anyway let's all just enjoy what we do

Sophie

[Teresa]

Becky,
I have to admit I'm really torn on this issue , I feel MIAD is sufficient to cover the people in that group .

I was going to post my thoughts on this whole subject , while I agree with Wildaboutheels on the passing comment I personally could never go out as a MIAD . To me it still gives off so many confusing issues not only to the public but also to other members of the TG community . I must admit I find it hard the respect them possibly because I'm confused and don't understand where they are coming from . I'm not saying it's wrong but to be perfectly honest I wouldn't walk down the street with one or socialise with them apart from in a social group situation , I would still try and understand them but in the back of my mind they are expecting me to respect them for their appearance but not showing the same respect for me or CDers who put so much effort into their presentation on occasions .

Many of us have been through hell and back to be able to walk out the door and look presentable as a woman , many of us are or maybe still on a journey, to be tagged a MIAD maybe soul destroying to some people . Again personally I have gone through a separation to achieve what I have so far , the comments and insults are still going round my head from my wife , I have proved her wrong by integrating in society as Teresa but I certainly wouldn't have done as a MIAD .

[Charlotte7]

I'm fine with the term MIAD, and regardless however cross dressers may arrive at being a MIAD, even by many varied routes, in my book, that doesn't make them different things. Actually. I'm probably as much with those who say that we don't need any more labels than cross dresser as that is the one thing which defines us all.

...I must admit I find it hard the respect them possibly because I'm confused and don't understand where they are coming from . I'm not saying it's wrong but to be perfectly honest I wouldn't walk down the street with one or socialise with them apart from in a social group situation , I would still try and understand them but in the back of my mind they are expecting me to respect them for their appearance but not showing the same respect for me or CDers who put so much effort into their presentation on occasions.

This reply though stuck out to me as being a different reply and I have to say that it may be a little sad. Sad, because it seems to demonstrate a lack of acceptance of the diversity in and among cross dressers. For we are a very diverse group, but have one thing in common, we wear ladies clothes.

I would put, at the pinnacle of MIADDOM, (see I've coined yet another new word ), Conchita Wurst from Austria ( https://eurovision.tv/participant/conchita-wurst ) and I would say that in every aspect of their presentation Conchita is stunning. In case you don't look at the link or it doesn't work for you Conchita's motto is "Be the best version of yourself rather than a bad copy of someone else!" Now, personally I wouldn't present as Conchita in public but I'm very happy that they do and I would be proud to walk down the street and to socialise which Conchita and all those who Conchita inspires and empowers. If Conchita confuses people by pushing the boundaries, by acting in ways that don't conform, then that's all the better, because in doing so it makes it easier for others to follow. To not respect something because you don't understand it, is to demonstrate a mindset that is closed to being challenged. To say that a MIAD does not respect other cross dressers who fully transform is, well, it's to say something which can't be said because, none of us can ever know what is going on in someone else's head.

I've said it a few times on these boards, that in seeking acceptance from society as a whole, how can we begin to get that, if we can't accept the diversity of cross dressers that we have here? And you know, I think that if society can accept people like Conchita and Phili and all the other MIADs on these boards, then, that actually makes it much easier for those who pass and those who blend.

So, to sum up, yes, if you're a MIAD be proud, and if you not a MIAD then be proud for the MIADs among us, and as for new labels and sub-teams, no we don't really need any more of them, let's all just get along however we are, happy in our dresses.

[Teresa]

Charlotte,
As I said it is my pesonal view , I also pointed out how much has gone into achieving what I have so far . In the back of mind was the comment made by a MIAD about the reaction a good friend acting as a wingman saw , it wasn't good . The point I can't understand is why put yourself through that , there is no end game with dressing in that way . I realise I'm looking at it from more of a transition point of view . I also realise I got into a heated debate about it not being about the clothes , I accept they are only part of the equation but to me a totally necessary one .

The other point is you are reading my comments from the situation of not being totally out , it does change the perspective when you do so . Finding the balance to integrate and not get a reaction ( I'm still not going to use the word PASS !) is a learning curve .

Phili ,
I do apologise to you , it's nothing personal , as you say I might eat my words after meeting you but at the moment going full time is working out much better than I expected and perhaps I'm being slightly guarded over defending something that has been so hard fought for .

I also realise you have some personal battles going on and I hope you can resolve them sometime soon , I still have it in the back of my mind that given the chance to fully dress and losing the facial hair so you can see the full effect of makeup you would totally embrace it and not look back . I respect your reasons given in the past for not doing so .

[AllieSF]

Teresa, We all went through a similar thread in the past where you presented the same opinion with almost the same words. In that thread you clearly made your case and from MIAD's they gave all their reasons men in dresses (MIAD's) do what they do, and the key figure was Phili, regularly used as an example. Now after all that time you come right back and wonder, is in your statement above "The point I can't understand is why put yourself through that , there is no end game with dressing in that way ." What do you mean no end game? Phili goes out all the time and the fact that he gets satisfaction is more than a at least one end game for him. Does he also have to dress so that all other CD's, NB's and even TS's get the same happiness when he is out? He is only doing it for himself, which I believe is what the majority of us are doing. Yes, we may want others to like how we present and accept us, but that is really secondary for those of us that go out all the time. We do not worry about what others think nor do we really care.

In my point of view you are being insensitive to many of our members here and to those similar others out in the real world. I have a simple code I try to follow here. It is not always easy for me to follow sometimes, but I make every effort to do so. I try to treat everyone equally and respect their right to be and present as they want, even if I do not care for it. If you do not like to see MIAD's out in the real world, what would you say to those that do not want to see you out there either? There is always someone who wants to take the bar for acceptability, passing, blending or "correctly" representing us to a higher level than you do. Why even set the bar at any level? That always goes back to many past threads here that one should make the best effort when going out to blend in as best possible, dress your age, and don't make the rest of us look bad. Why does one need to do that and who are you, I, or anyone else to say what level of effort is acceptable by those few of us that actually can blend in more easily that others. You and I and some others may be gifted to have those desired personal characteristics, but what about those others, who don't meet up to your or others' standards, and who gets to set those standards?

You do not have to associate with anyone that you do not want to associate with. I don't either. But to state here that you still do not understand and then expect to get new answers that might change your mind with a new thread explaining your reasons, makes no sense to me. The thing is that the idea is strange to you and you really do need to meet a friendly and confident MIAD to truly appreciate who they are inside.

I truly do respect your struggles and current resolution to them. I am just like you and go out everyday, every moment in every circumstance as my real self, Allie. I also love to talk to strangers and anyone else that will listen to me. However, where we differ is that I very much respect people like Phili and others however they may decide to dress and present to the public and freely grant them the right to do so with no complaints, or "I just don't get it" comments to others from me, especially on a public forum with such a diverse membership from all over the place. I respectfully ask you to reconsider your comments and viewpoint, and welcome everyone under our large and mostly welcoming umbrella.

[phili]

Yay for Gretchen's lexicon! Seems simple and comprehensive enough, and we could adhere to it, with an FAQ for new posters, and friendly reminders when people lose track of the differences. Using this kind of terminology would help people know where we are coming from, so repliers know what to say. Of course, simply understanding that we are here to support each other as crossdressers, regardless of our individual reasons, is the easiest way forward. If we don't understand why someone is doing something, we can ask, and at no point question their motives or sanity!

But if we are going to use labels to provide context- as I did when making the MIAD sharing thread- so that someone expecting to see an emulation dresser is not disappointed, we could add helpful specificity:

1. Say Female-identified crossdressers, rather than transgender, since the latter term is also an umbrella term in the larger society, and still evolving [see https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx ] Transsexual is too limiting, in terms of incorporating physical transition.

2. Perhaps use the term Emulation crossdressers, for those of us who are trying to look like females, but not identifying as female.

3. Drag queen crossdressers are well understood as performance artists.

4. MIAD might better be said as NB crossdresser. This is for all those who are not trying to avoid being seen as at least partially a male/man/masculine - and the way we crossdress speaks about how we are incorporating the female/woman/feminine into our presentation and by reference, our identity! Using NB also avoids the term being used in a way that sounds like it is undermining someone's success in leaving the male look behind.

I think we started using MIAD simply to helpfully provide context to our goals when we post. That was because foiks sometimes were critical, not realizing we could have such divergent goals [in terms of appearance] while sharing a love for crossdressing. We never really tried to give everyone a simple and uncontested label that works for a post- and has been pointed out, individuals are not limited to one category- we switch back and forth.

[Charlotte7]

Teresa, do you not accept that there is a whole gender spectrum out there and we're all trying to find a place where we are happy? You've found a place where you're happy, Conchita Wurst has found a place where they are happy, even me, yes I've found a place where I'm happy. What we have to do in this world, and you're a very good example of this, is find our own corner of the planet, our own place where we can be who we really are and who we really want to be. And the important thing in this, is what matters to us as individuals, not others, but ourselves.

I'm not saying it's wrong but to be perfectly honest I wouldn't walk down the street with one or socialise with them apart from in a social group situation

Now bearing in mind what I've said above, can you see that your statement above might be seen in a negative light by those who are happy to wander the streets in dresses and sporting a beard? Do you not think that it shows just a tiny bit of prejudice and lack of acceptance? Live and let live.

As others have said, what's important is that we all like to put on a dress, let's celebrate that.

[Teresa]

Charlotte,
I've given this some thought and instead of hijacking Becky's thread I'll start a newe one to explain the point yopu make .

[Stephanie47]

I really appreciate threads of this nature. They are a lot more thought provoking than "What are you wearing today," although I do enjoy those too. I was somewhat surprised by Teresa's statement. Excluding someone because of who he or she is or may be? That is the raging debate in the United States right now. Genetic testing to include or exclude a person based on two letters in the alphabet, x and y. I have relationships with men and women, who are married to same sex partners. I have family members who are African-American, Mexican-American, severely disabled, and, so on. One big melting pot of genetic material. I also have acquaintances who intentionally exclude people like those in my family or circle of friends and acquaintances. As being the "odd man out" which is what I surely would be labeled, I can not find it in my heart to exclude anyone for who they were born as or to become. If I reject anyone for who they are, then anyone is entitled to reject me. No double standard here.

As I stated above (#4) I do not understand the thought process involved in a true MIAD. I do have, as I indicated, some conjecture on the issue. But, that is no more than conjecture that people may have about myself.

[Becky Blue]

Thanks for contributing to this thread girls and making it really interesting with some illuminating comments. I want to respond to a few posts will also explain why I posted the OP...

OWPIDS.

Obsession With Passing Is Downright Silly. The key word being OBSESSION.

Wild, you expect respect from people here for the way you want to be, but in return don't seem to respect the girls who aim to pass? Why is wanting or needing to pass silly?

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Sounds as if to create a scale of gradations for judging a genetic male wearing women's clothing. On one extreme is the genetic male all dolled up en femme with proper makeup and hair and also emulating the gestures and walk of a woman. On the other end is a genetic male who is totally unshaven, maybe bald, and just wearing women's clothing. All I can image is the bearded lady at a carnival side show. I think the issue is coming down to "intent."

You have nailed what I was saying perfectly Steph

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Yeah, we need yet another label and subgroup to further fracture our community.

Roberta, I disagree I believe that the difference between intentional and unintentional MIADS actually help bring us together and you will see what I mean in my summation

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This is as succinct as I can imagine. No analyzing, no judging, no labels. Observe, accept, move forward.

why does every person who uses or creates a label be presumed to be judging? In no way shape or form is my OP judgmental

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Teresa .... Teresa ... Teresa whats to say?

MIAD should not be used for a male who is trying but failing to look feminine in a wig, make-up, accessories, shoes and the whole nine yards. That's just not only idiotic and unfair, it's an insult.
Cass

Thank you to Cassie and Jacques for helping me in making my point..

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Becky, unless you are a MIAD or IMIAD or whatever, why not let them decide if they need more detailed defined labels. They have to live with the label that they choose, not you or us who do not define ourselves that way. I do know that many here might say that they may look like a "man in a dress). However, the MIAD acronym used in posts has been used almost exclusively by those that go out in a dress with short man hair and no wig and maybe even a beard like Phili does.

Would you consider suggesting a new acronym for a TS who doesn't have bottom surgery because it helps you to better understand them or categorize them for your own benefit ant not the TS's benefit?

AND thanks to Allie for providing me the ability to respond and in doing so explain why i started this thread

Aliie I thought long and hard about posting the thread for the exact reason you said BUT here is why I did.. As an more experienced girl who has been out numerous times and has been around quite a while, I quite often help and mentor other girls, perhaps nubies or perhaps people who have been too scared to venture out or even dress fully... I continually hear the same thing being said and it saddens me... Oh I could never go out like you do, I would look like a man in a dress, I have big shoulders or thick arms (insert various male attributes). In my opinion there are girls holding themselves back as they think they are MIADS.. so i felt that this thread can highlight the difference between someone who wants to be a MIAD and someone who does not think they will look good.

Hopefully through this quite balanced discussion some people can get encouraged to see themselves all pretty and femm (if they wish too of course)

[AllieSF]

Thanks Becky. I have never had anyone say that they were afraid because they felt that they looked like a MIAD (a new term for me in the last year or so). However, I have taken several wonderful ladies out of their comfort zone here in San Francisco. However, when I first started seeing the term MIAD here it wasn't used much and was normally used by Phili or members like Phili. Yes, it has a braoder or more detailed definition now, that I see and better understand. I never heard that term used by those IO took out, but I see now that it may have applied to them directly. I like the the clear separation as stated in your sentence, "so i felt that this thread can highlight the difference between someone who wants to be a MIAD and someone who does not think they will look good."

[GeorgeA]

Charlotte,
I've given this some thought and instead of hijacking Becky's thread I'll start a newe one to explain the point yopu make .

I remember you starting that thread and I even posted a comment. I was away for a couple of days and now can't find it.
Have you deleted it?

[Lydianne]

@Salerba: I don't think she did.

But I'm so glad that happened because that deletion is extremely symbolic ( although the authorities probably didn't intend it to be ).

I have read a few members here who identify as MIAD saying they felt unwelcome to post, and I understood that. But now, you got so much backup from members of other parts of the spectrum to the point that this happened. I generally do not advocate breaking the rules, but in this case, the cause superseded the rule.

I'm so glad it went down the way it did, and it's all credit to you all for the statement you all made in Phili's picture thread.

Welcome to the community! .

- Lydianne.

[Sara Jessica]

I remember you starting that thread and I even posted a comment. I was away for a couple of days and now can't find it.
Have you deleted it?

Someone must have gotten butt-hurt and the thread went poof which is ridiculous. You pour honesty and effort into such a conversation that was somewhat intriguing only to return and find it gone. Two can play at that game.

Poof.

[Teresa]

Salerba,
My thread was running it's course so I requested it be closed, I came on the forum this morning to find it had been deleted .

Sara ,
Sorry you are wrong with your assumption but there's nothing stopping you starting a new thread up if you have the inclination .

Cassandra ,
You'll have to find someone else to spew over , sorry about that !

As for the rest who enjoyed the hypocrisy of finding fault with others while they can't see their own faults and failings , well I've decided I don't need it anymore , that's my final comment .