Forms and pads cross the line...

[Helen_Highwater]

Kas,

Erm, "I understand that your clothing may require it because of a large “boob section”, but why not just choose clothes that don’t? (smallest cup size for example)". because as stated earlier, dresses, blouses, tops come in sizes, 12, 14, 16 etc. True you can buy petite which tend to be a smaller fit but nearly all other things the bust size is somewhat assumed. Even pencil skirts which are cut to be snug in the hips fit better with padding.

And that's the point. My choice is to look as femme as I can and for that I require clothes to fit as intended. Do I have some form of dysphoria, don't know, don't care. I will refer to myself as being "Trans" if talking to especially someone outside of our community as it's become a label they're becoming increasingly familiar with, something they can get a handle on. To say I have a form of gender or body dysphoria to a muggle would make it sound like it's something you should be taking medication for.

In another thread you wrote;

My fear is being a MIAD (no offence to MIADS). That is why I’m going through HRT, because I only want to go out as a girl if I look like a girl, not a guy dressed in girls clothes with makeup and a wig.

If HRT doesn’t make me look like a girl? Well I guess I’ll be in the closet forever and that’s fine with me!

I don't want to sound critical here but I view the above as you trying to do with chemicals what others attempt to do with prosthetics and makeup. The difference lies in the willingness of others to present in the muggle world even with the knowledge that they don't truly "Pass". It saddens me to think that you may go through so much in undertaking HRT only to find for whatever reason that you're going to spend the rest of your life in fear of enjoying all that which so many of us here have joyously experienced.

Have you stopped to consider how you'll react if HRT takes you to 98% of what you believe to be what's needed to go out? You'll be a highly feminine looking person going about in men's clothing?

It seems to me Kas you need to deal with those little devils talking in your ear telling you bad things will happen because if you don't, even with HRT, the FEAR will continue to be the driving factor in your progress.

Sorry if I sound harsh but I really see your journey taking you into a cul-de-sac.

[MiniRock]

Yep, just a bloke who likes to look good in a dress. Don't bother with hip padding because I like how stuff fits me round the middle, but breast forms are essential.

[Tracii G]

Well sated Helen.
Kas you do what you want to do but please return the favor and let us to what we want to do.

[Lydianne]

@Kas: Basically the second part of what Helen wrote. I was going to write something similar in that thread, but I was pushed for time.

I was also going to add that an intensifying of need could shift your perspective ( as has been witnessed on these boards with the breakthrough outings of some others ) . . .

. . . Irresistible force meets immovable object.

It would either push you to beat the fear with the defiance that some of the stuff you have written on here would appear to suggest you would already be capable of doing, or your decision to remain indoors, which you are fine with now, might become acutely unsettling.

- Lydianne.

[Teresa]

Kas,
To crossdress doesn't mean you need the female shape , to be seen dressed with a more female shape could suggest a slight GD issue . That possobly describes me but it's not an answer to everyone . Besides F/M have the opposite problem if they have GD and wish to loose the female shape .

As for the point Helen raises , the one question I have is are you self medicating ? If that's the case then I totally agree with Helen , if it's under medical supervision then you may have been mislead slightly . You only have to read the TS section to see how unpredicatable medication can be before the balance has been found and not everyone responds in the same way or on the same time scale .

[Robertacd]

I have said this many times, but why would you not want to wear forms or pad your hips and ass?

Regardless of our reasons we are all trying to present ourselves as and to some extent be accepted as a woman.

Well the majority of women have breasts and their hips are as wide as or wider than their sholders and their butts and thighs are fatter. Totally opposite of the majority of men who have shoulders wider than their hips and skinny flat butts.

This really requires us to balance our figure by padding our lower half and using breast forms. Otherwise you will be clocked as a man in a dress from accross the street.

[Maid_Marion]

Lots of GGs get breast augmentation surgery. Even some, that in my opinion, are pretty well endowed to begin with!

I'm lucky to have a 32-26-32 figure and a 32A bra size without HRT. I fit wonderfully into women's clothes without any forms. But, anyone who says they effortlessly says they have a figure like that is lying. Especially if they are old enough to get the senior discount at the thrift store!

[Teresa]

Maid Marion,
I'm with you on this one I don't totally agree with Roberta , maybe I'm one of ther lucky ones , like you I have a well balanced figure , with my forms in I'm 37" bust 31" waist and 37" hips and never use lower padding . I mostly slip into UK size 12 and yes it does raise comments from SAs and female customers in the changing rooms .

[ellbee]

Good topic!


As someone who *doesn't* wear any kind of temporary body enhancements, I suppose my reasoning is because I don't want to come across as a woman. Perfectly happy in my clothing from the GG side of the aisle -- but as a guy. I want to be viewed as one, accepted as one, and treated as one.

When I started getting back into dressing like 2.5 years ago, I actually did buy some of those inexpensive "add-a-cup" boob enhancers... And while they were perfectly fine, I ended up not liking wearing them!

I do still wear a padded sports-bra on occasion. But only because sometimes I'll have on a tight stretchy work-out top with nothing over it, and I really hate the whole nipple-appearance issue. I get a bit of extra boobage from that, but that's fine, since it provides me with smooth clean lines.


However...

Back in my en-femme days, many moons ago? Fake boobs & hips were a MUST! I wanted the whole package, so to speak, from head to toe. And in order to achieve that, some extra "help" was needed.

I dunno, I guess it would look & seem weird, to do up everything, but not have boobs/butt/hips of a GG. Like, something would be "off," ya know? I simply wanted the most realistic & legit presentation as possible.

Was it dysphoria? I suppose that probably varies case by case.


But anyway, I don't like that stuff now, and that presentation is no longer "me." Plus, I've got a lot of muscle bulk on my entire lower body, so the natural hip/butt/thigh thing while wearing leggings is more than adequate for me these days.


Finally, do these temporary enhancements cross any kind of line? I believe for some, they do. For example, the wife or GF of a CD'er may have absolutely no qualms with their SO wearing certain women's items, as long as it looks good/is well-suited for them -- but only in the male presentation.

When additional things start coming into play, like fake boobs & hips, wig, make-up, etc.? I can see how a wife/GF would be like, "Whoa, whoa! Wait a sec... What exactly is going on here?!? Bizarre territory! Too much for me to handle! Things are going too far!!"

So, in that sense, yeah, a line may be crossed there, IMO.

[Mafalda]

This thread brings me out a lot of thoughts.... Is there a line? I don't think so. We are here to show, all of us, as strict cathegories aren't usable when you speak about crossdressing and gender issues. Maybe there's a curve (sorry for the joke), a very unusual one, but not a line! Lines and boundaries can be scary things, and dangerous, too.

Acceptance is a great and powerful concept, though very hard to fully achieve. Both on ourselves and on someone else. We should keep on working on it.

[Rachael Leigh]

For me since I’m not going to transition but I do present non binary and mostly fem at work and other places, I use the
enhancements for comfort, it gives me a feel of a better presentation. I’ve been accused at my job of just being a crossdresser, which my response is no it’s way more than that for me, it’s just me being me.
As a note I don’t wear my forms to work most days but will once in a while because it makes my tops look better

[LeslieSD]

Body enhancing garment is not new. It has been everywhere for women / men and everyone. For example, isn't the purpose of shaper enhance your body and making it looking more curvy? It redistributes the fat in a way to make a more attractive shape.

One might argue that shaper did not add mass. Then, how about the padded bra? That's adding a part to your body that was not there in the first place. It has been used by millions of women all over the world. There are many other examples. High heels, it adds to the height and changes the posture.

Women will even go the length of cosmetic surgery and inject silcone to their body. The point is that there is a blury line of body dysphoria. To many people that line is probably a little above excessive cosmetic surgery. Wearing a padded bra and a padded panty is nowhere even near that line.

I think this is a very interesting topic, by the way.

[ellbee]

Leslie, I don't believe anyone (aside from me) is really talking about a "simple" padded bra & padded panty, for that extra bit of "oomph."


What we mean is full-size breast forms, real corset, *large* fake hips/butt (DressTech, Veronica, etc.). Like, stuff that would *radically* alter one's physique.

[Kas]

Wow this thread really blew up. Thanks for all your posts, ladies. Now time to actually go through and read them all.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

Helen,

See the thing is, I am doing this for myself. I don’t care if I never reach the level where I would want to go outside fully dressed, because it makes no difference in my opinion. I don’t need confirmation from others. If I am happy then that’s all I care about. I am certainly not going to go out just for the sake of it ie driving to a petrol station in the middle of the night. Going outside dressed is not important to me in the slightest. I dress full time at home with my wonderful and accepting SO and daughter and that’s all I need (which is more than what the majority of people here have).

[Eva Bella]

I've never worn them, but all of my friends who aren't full-time do. You pretty much need some kind of boobs and some kind of hips to decently full out most women's clothing. A lot of CD's simply want to feel beautiful, and that's part of the deal. I have a curvy build by nature, so that's the only reason I'm not joining them in it.

[ElianaFrozenflame]

Disphoric means "unhappy". Wanting to look, and pass as the other gender does not necessarily mean they are unhappy with who, or what gender they are. I want to look like a woman. No, not all the time. If I had a magic pill that would make the change permanent, I'd turn it down. I am happy as a man. And I am happy as man trying to pass as a woman.

[Kas]

Kas you do what you want to do but please return the favor and let us to what we want to do.

Umm how am I stopping you from doing what you want? If a random person on the internet tells you they disagree with something you do, do you just go “oh ok. They must be right. I’ll stop right now.”....

I highly doubt that. I am not that influential unfortunately, but thank you for assuming I am.

Also, I have seen you refer to yourself as transgender, so your opinion isn’t really valid in this topic as I was asking about crossdressers who DO NOT view themselves as something more than just a crossdresser.

[Tracii G]

Oh snap I know where I'm not wanted.

[Helen_Highwater]

Helen,

See the thing is, I am doing this for myself. I don’t care if I never reach the level where I would want to go outside fully dressed, because it makes no difference in my opinion. I don’t need confirmation from others. If I am happy then that’s all I care about. I am certainly not going to go out just for the sake of it ie driving to a petrol station in the middle of the night. Going outside dressed is not important to me in the slightest. I dress full time at home with my wonderful and accepting SO and daughter and that’s all I need (which is more than what the majority of people here have).

Sorry Kas, I can't square that circle. If "Going outside dressed is not important to me in the slightest" why on earth go to all the trouble of HRT? I can totally understand that you are happy to stay behind your front door, to be yourself within the confines of your own four walls. If you're happy with that then I will argue that you're missing out but at the end of the day I'll respect your choice. Taking things way beyond that in resorting to HRT and in this thread asking searching questions of the motives of others who seek to portray themselves to the world in the best light possible seem totally at odds.

I will return to my earlier question. If HRT is 98% successful and you're left with a very feminine figure and facial features but still insufficient in your view to reach the goal of passing 100%, how are you going to cope with going out in male attire? Lets not forget HRT is likely to effect libido, voice, facial features. These are things you can't hide from the world, and your SO, yet you're worried about not passing 100% before going out because of what complete strangers might, or not, think

As for " I am certainly not going to go out just for the sake of it ie driving to a petrol station in the middle of the night." you do a great disservice to those who summon up huge amounts of courage to take those early tentative steps towards going out in public. My own experiences have enabled me to speak on this. As we say in the UK, don't knock it till you've tried it.

[countrygirl]

For me when I go from Ben to Amanda. I will go way beyond brest forms and hipp padding. I will padd up morbidly obese all over. Why you ask? Because when I am Amanda she is obese and extremely curvey. Not trying to offend anyone but I feel more comfortable when I get padded up fat.

[Tina June]

I wear whatever padding, forming, cinching, shaping, enhancing products that help me present a better Me.

[Kas]

Sorry Kas, I can't square that circle. If "Going outside dressed is not important to me in the slightest" why on earth go to all the trouble of HRT?

Wow... If you think the only reason people start HRT is to go outside and show off then you are sadly mistaken.

Your question doesn’t make any sense either. If I have a feminine figure, voice, facial features then of course I would be happy to go out. That is what I am trying to achieve and the whole point of starting HRT. Also, what is this thing with percentages? Explain the difference between what 98% and 100% would mean to you? There is not a single point where you suddenly “become” a woman...

“Oh look my hair is finally 13.3 inches long, that moved me from 99.735% woman to full 100%! Yay! Finally I can go out!”

What you’re asking makes no sense.

And if you think that because I choose not to drive to a petrol stations dressed in the middle of the night, I am showing a “great disservice” to other member, then well I do t know what to say other than, no?

[GretchenJ]

Umm how am I stopping you from doing what you want? If a random person on the internet tells you they disagree with something you do, do you just go “oh ok. They must be right. I’ll stop right now.”....

I highly doubt that. I am not that influential unfortunately, but thank you for assuming I am.

Also, I have seen you refer to yourself as transgender, so your opinion isn’t really valid in this topic as I was asking about crossdressers who DO NOT view themselves as something more than just a crossdresser.

moderator hat on:
You asked in in your original post if it was more than cd’ing, not that you not wanted the opinions of CD’ers only. If this was the case, then your opinion would be moot as well as you are clearly not only a Cder as you have posted on the TS site and you are currently on HRT.

One final note, please don’t diminish those people who venture out just to get gas and come back. You have found your comfort zone and that is truly fantastic (no sarcasm intended), but everyone here has their unique way of expressing themselves , what you claim about forms and pads to you may apply to wigs and makeup to others.

[docrobbysherry]

I dress for me! I'm a straight man attracted to fem women.

When I look in the mirror a sexy, fem women there turns me on!
A man in a dress turns me off! And, ruins the dressing experience for me!

If u don't dress for yourself, or simply don't care how u look?
Maybe you're dressing for emotional/subconscious reasons? Call them whatever u like!

[Vikky]

I always wear a bra and forms when dressing day or night, and sometimes hip pads. I don't mind what term you describe what I do, but I like it and want to emulate women in mannerisms and how they dress, and within the limitations of my circumstances, their life experience.
This brilliant website seems to offer the best place to get advice, support and encouragement.
Vikky