So what gives people the right to decide how others live?

[Stacy Darling]

It's their insecurity Nic! Plain and simple!

Finding our own peace is so important!
Stacy!

[Robertacd]

That's what I get for not reading every post in a thread.

Well I believe that you cannot ignore our country's political climate, but will go back and edit myself so nobody has to think about it.

[Charona]

Every rule, every law, every custom is a way of telling people how they should live.

[Cassandra Lynn]

It begins on day one. The doctor delivers the baby, checks between it's legs and hands it off to the mother with "it's boy or it's a girl", from that day forward the infant begins to be gendered according to it's biological sex. The parents, family friends and everyone near the child for the next several years (during the phase when a child learns and develops it's gender) will play a part in that.

Let's face it folks, we as humans are not that far removed from the 4 legged herd animals, and we tend to live in groups and adopt cultural norms from that group and what has always been the norm for any geographic region or area.
It's been this way for centuries and even though times are changing it's taken decades for the great social changes like civil and women's rights to get to where it is and even that is still a work in progress.

Aunty Kelly said it most succinctly, fear and ignorance is what drives the real bad treatment towards others who don't strive to fit in.

Look at what happens when people move to another country or region from far away, they soon begin to adopt the cultural norms so that they fit in and get treated with respect for it.

I've been watching several Ted talks vids on YT lately and there are some very enlightening talks on the subject of gendering and the inherent problems. One woman told how she was having a conversation with a man who commented on what a 'strong strapping and fine looking little boy' she had, and when she corrected him, that it was in fact a girl, he quickly apologized and without missing a beat told her that she was a 'darling little princess'.

I have noticed something here at this site though, when we've had posts commenting along the lines of the wrongs associated with over the top gendering, a lot of people suddenly get passionate about it needing to be that way. Oh my goodness people cry, girls have to grow up to be pretty and feminine.
Funny how these people aren't saying the same about boys needing to be raised to be masculine little dudes. It goes something like this: "it's wrong that we get called names for being feminine, we should be able to be pretty, and then the next day that same poster say on another thread "women today sure aren't dressing pretty and acting feminine, that's so wrong".
We complain of the double standard, but too many are on board with it at the same time; what's that old line about having cake and eating it too?


For the record Tracy Irving, Roberta's post came after Davida's warning.
We can whine about politics and not talking it here all we want, but we stand on the cusp of history with the current administration's goal to erase trans-people from existence.

Moderate me if you wish.
Cass

[Micki_Finn]

Well, you’ve kind of hit on the definition of society. It’s a group of people who come together to decide rules for everyone to live under to maximize efficiency and minimize conflict. Because society deals with large groups who all have different opinions, some people will always be “marginalized”.

[sometimes_miss]

In short, both religious and political believers are empowered by their leaders to get rid of the undesirables in their midst. We are undesirables to a lot of people. Hence, they believe that gives them the right to tell us what to do, or even, to use violence to get rid of us. In today's social climate, hate is becoming more acceptable, as our leaders preach it from the podiums. You know, 'good people on both sides' that want to kill each other. I don't consider any of them 'good people'.

[Stephanie47]

People are following the example of those who lead. You, coming from Indiana, should not be surprised. People are feeling embolden to throw out derogatory remarks with impunity. I do not know what the laws of Indiana may be. You can check some of the national websites for that. In Washington State sexual expression is covered under hate crime legislation. From my reading of news reports from around the country I see a wide difference in how anti this or anti that is handled. Laws offer protection, but, not acceptance.

[Aunt Kelly]

Well, you’ve kind of hit on the definition of society. It’s a group of people who come together to decide rules for everyone to live under to maximize efficiency and minimize conflict. Because society deals with large groups who all have different opinions, some people will always be “marginalized”.

That is why we have things like the notion that everyone is entitled to equal treatment under the law, and more importantly, that that right can not be abridged by majority rule. That's an important facet of any system of law and government that purports to value human rights. Right now, that's not something we're very good at practicing. The tribalism instinct is strong, but an enlightened people can get past that.

And Stephanie, excellent point about laws offering protection and not acceptance.

[Micki_Finn]

Aunt Kelly: your assessment is not accurate. We collectively “agree” on what’s right and wrong and permitted and not permitted. Peoples “equal treatment” rights absolutely can be abridged by majority rule. Take Rastafianism. We promise freedom of religion, but those people were not able to fully participate in their religion because they were banned from using marijuana.
You also seem to be under the impression that we are all in agreement on what qualifies as a human right. There are many people who do not believe “picking your gender” is a human right and therefor we shouldn’t be protected. There are racists who believe human rights should only belong to white folks. Many Islamic cultures paint a very different picture of what human rights should look like.
No system protects 100% of the people all the time. There will ALWAYS be someone who is marginalized.

[Aunt Kelly]

Micki, with respect, your're incorrect. The Constitution of the United States was drafter by men who, by and large, wholeheartedly believed in the notion that certain rights transcend the majority. They designed a system of government, utterly new to the world, where those rights would be enshrined in an almost, but not quite unassailable place in our system of law and government. Changes the principles there are purposefully difficult, and require a long and deliberative process. Yes, it was not perfect, and yes, there have been a few missteps, but the underlying principle has always been the notion of "certain unalienable rights".
As for the Rastafarians, the judgement there was one of preventing risk to society (however specious such claims really were) over religious expression. A better example might be the friction between society and Santeria, a religion wherein animal sacrifice is common.
I never intended to suggest that we are all in agreement. Sorry if you mistook my expression of seeing that as worthy goal as something else. Again, the tendency towards tribalism, wherein seeing "the other" as a threat is as old as our species. The exploitation of that tendency is almost as old. We are capable of outgrowing that notion, I believe, and should recognize our attachment to those ancient instincts as an impediment to our growth as a species.

[Cassandra Lynn]

Thanx for your thoughts on tribalism Kelly, I have been educated.
I had used the word in my earlier post and now with a better understanding of it's true nature in this very interesting thread, I've taken the time to edit.
It's always a good day when you learn something new.

Cass

[Nicole Erin]

For following the example of those who lead, here is my take - As one of the supervisors at work said, "Do not let someone else's bad behavior cause you to mess up". Someone had "tested my nerves" that day over Who knows what and I lost it.

I guess also like i read once and as someone pointed out in different words - Laws are designed to (hopefully) change the way people act, not the way they feel.

But something else disturbing - for a while there we had a lot of strides made. Other groups were making headway, gaining rights, etc. But then it all went silent in the news. The only thing we hear now is how "they" are trying to erase us out of existence. Yeah, THAT is going to happen. I am throwing away all my femme stuff right now. Even this really awesome blouse... wait I might keep that, and the skirt, and shoes, purse, hosiery.... Ok so i ain't throwin out nuthin.

[t-girlxsophie]

I sometimes wonder what skeletons these people have in their own closets,people who judge like to think they are perfect but "Newsflash" very few people are.Anyone has a problem with me well tough,They dont matter a jot and ain't gonna stop me.Thankfully these situations have lessened imo.

Really Interesting Thread too

Sophie

[kimdl93]

Good question. Many great responses.

i know it’s uncomfortable for some to accept the idea that intolerance has been normalized, but please, look around at the increase in such behavior and ask yourself honestly, if this is simply a coincidence, or have these people been empowered and legitimized by recent example.

Also, although I’m not much of a joiner, I strongly applaud those who do speak out, those who join movements and actively push back against this newly empowered and encouraged intolerance.

[deebra]

Nicole, Your post and my post, "Why Me" are pretty much the same. Don't be critical or offer advice to others, it can be turned around on you. If you can't be positive and nice, keep your mouth shut.

[Cassandra Lynn]

The whole "we will not be erased" movement makes no sense.
They can't and they aren't going to. Personally there is no way they are going to erase me because I won't let them.
The ones that fall into movements like that are not thinking rationally IMO and are doing the "group think" thing.

PS now don't get all upset or offended its just my opinion.
I am not one to follow the crowd I can think for myself.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/21/u...Stories&pgtype
This is what I was referring to Tracii, and while we (regardless of where we place ourselves on the spectrum) will go on with our lives, if this (watch the link people) does in fact happen, it's repercussions will be significant.

Cass

[Happygirl!]

They will have to pry the pantyhose off my cold dead body!
But have to agree with Kimdl: in our current political climate there are those that feel emboldened to proudly display their hatred of anything outside their narrow view of the world. The good news is that as time goes on things are changing for the better in most places. There's just gonna be some growing pains along the way. Remember when humans thought the earth was the center of the universe?

[Alice Torn]

Like Tracii, I am an individualist, and hate "group think". I am way too complex to be in any box, except being human.

[Rogina B]

Nicole ,
The only person who gives me a hard time is my wife even after I've separated . Otherwise no one does dictate how I dress or behave .

Do they have a right ?

BUT..Teresa, in another thread you told us that you attend your "art class" in drab...So you have caved to exactly what this thread is about...