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Thread: Frustrated

  1. #26
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    Just to acknowledge I am still reading but don't choose to debate anymore - I am spent. Just letting people know I am not ignoring them. If you want to weigh in and speak your piece I will read it.

  2. #27
    Senior Member Melissa Rose's Avatar
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    Like Pat, I am coming out of posting semi-retirement and jumping into this discussion.

    Opinions are fine as long as they are presented as opinions and not as facts or hard truths. Voicing opinions can be beneficial to others as long as they are not used to bludgeon, shame or silence. Sharing experiences and thought processes, including those not in agreement, are often helpful to others and should continue.

    As for the stealth issue…… I am very stealth by choice and quite fortunate to have that option. It is a very personal and private decision, and only mine to make and one that should be free of judgement or derision. One size does not fit all and individual choice as to what size fits best. I want to integrate as best as possible into an inequitable society and not make it more difficult by plastering a big target on myself. A few very close friends and co-workers know (a need to know basis due to employment issues). On rare occasions, I have privately outed myself for a good reason. I am not doing a disservice to myself by electing this path, and it has little or nothing to do with fear of judgement or shame. Doing anything else would not be authentic to myself and, in a way, would be a disservice to myself. My viewpoint is gender transitioning involves physical, emotional and social aspects, and for me remaining stealth greatly aids and supports the later.

    As a few others have stated, one can support the trans or LGBTQ community without being open and out. You are not required to be a member of a community to be an ally and contribute to social progress. In some ways, support as an ally can be as powerful as being an open member of the community.

  3. #28
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    As I said previously I am not going to reply at length or debate but will briefly reply.

    I reiterated numerous times that...
    A. It is just my opinion
    B. Everyone has the right to live as they choose.
    C. The reason I disagree with stealth is that we have nothing to be ashamed of and not wanting people to know who we are I think is an indication of how we feel about ourselves.
    D. The perception of trans people will not change if the rest of society does not know us.

    Make your own choices and have your own beliefs. That is all I am doing and I am not condemning others that do the same.

    Addition -

    I came back to add to this post not to debate but to address the 95% of you that do not post. I do NOT advocate that everyone transition - maybe some of you are just confused - some are truly CD - or NB or TS. What I do advocate is that you figure out who you are and then live authentically. As I have said before this is not a practice life - it is the one shot. Be who you are - whoever that may be.

    The first transphobe you have to conquer is yourself.
    Last edited by KymberlyOct; 12-28-2018 at 02:46 AM. Reason: Additional thought

  4. #29
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Look Kym
    Truly I believe you mean well...but you are simply not making good helpful sense...

    Do you want to have credibility??

    "its just my opinion" does not cut it
    ...platitudes don't cut it...

    "disagree with stealth" is a strawman for framing your own shame and transphobia...

    "disagree with stealth" does condemn stealth... it condemns something that you really do not understand...

    its no different than saying i disagree with transgenderism...


    Shaming people's shame is a terrible thing to do.
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  5. #30
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    I do mean well - I will agree to disagree on the rest. Thank you for the acknowledgment that I mean well I appreciate that.

  6. #31
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    Kaitlyn,
    It appears to me that we are all interpreting stealth in different ways , before it gets too heated what is your meaning and use of the word .

    My dictionary simply descibes it as secret or furtive . So I can see where Kymberly is coming from , I can also see you using it more to mean secretive as in it's no business but your own .

    As I'm not a secretive person I saw it more as furtive or possibly being ashamed in some way , I didn't see it as a personal attack on anyone but just differnt people living in different camps . I feel Kymberly was suggesting can some help be offered to anyone if they need it .

  7. #32
    Senior Member KellyJameson's Avatar
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    Stealth comes with its own benefits and costs.

    Being born cross-sexed turned me into a truth seeker with an extreme need for authenticity while also making me a liar and lover of inauthenticity. It is the nature of the prison we are born into. It throws us into the extremes of light and dark.

    The very word stealth implies the ability to hide. This is a universal behavior practiced by all people at some point and to some degree in their life. We do it to avoid danger and to secure what we want when what we want is more than to simply be safe

    Transitioning can be done to become more inauthentic just as it can be done to become more authentic.

    A inauthentic person will have a different relationship with the concept of stealth than a authentic person. A argument could be made that a authentic person is not morally superior to a inauthentic person and there is never a pure expression of one or the other in a person. We all are a mixture of both and only differ in degree.

    The relationship I have with authenticity is one I created for healing and health but I live in deep stealth which daily confronts me with situations where I'm forced to be inauthentic to be stealth. This is the paradox and cost I encounter by being stealth

    This is why I believe on some level transitioning has failed for me. I'm still inauthentic because I can never become that which I need to be to be authentic. I have simply reduced the dissonance and crazy making of what I was born into.

    Stealth keeps me safe but it also places me at risk. What do I do with the first 25 years of my life when I make new friends? How far can I ask others to lie for me? How can I betray others trust and ask them to trust me? Does this increase my anxiety or reduce it?

    To be what we are is to swim in dangerous waters but these are the same dangerous waters everyone else must swim in as well.

    The disgust and contempt I absorbed in childhood for being a girl with a penis are wounds I will always live with. They continue to shape my choices. No matter how much I desire moral growth as a path to authenticity I must do it within a frame work that I can survive.

    Every human being is confronted with the paradox of stealth and authenticity.

    It is part of the human condition. We can argue about the morality of it but if we condemn one way over another as being right or wrong/better or worse, we will never improve the human condition including our own.
    Last edited by KellyJameson; 12-28-2018 at 02:43 PM.
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  8. #33
    Super Moderator Jeri Ann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KymberlyOct View Post
    Stealth IMO means that someone has transitioned and has the ability for most or all people to assume that they are cisgender.

    My position regarding living as stealth is that it is a disservice to both the person themselves and to our acceptance as a community.

    It was mentioned in a thread recently about people that are post transition leaving this site eventually and I think that is a shame.
    Teresa,

    The meaning of the word stealth is not the issue here. In her original post Kym clearly states what she intends stealth to mean. No one has disputed the meaning of the word within her context. There are people who have taken offense at her position which is also clearly stated above. Even though she says that people have a right to live as they wish, she criticizes them for doing so. It is an unfair judgement of other people and can't be dismissed by repeatedly saying that it is an opinion.

    The issue here is gender identity. The people that are taking issue with the op are those who identify as female, have transitioned from life as a male to life as a female and are being criticized for doing so. And, if they get busy living that life and cease to participate on this forum, it is a shame.

    I agree wholeheartedly with Kaitlin and the others who are offended by criticism of how we choose to live.

    And as far as leaving the site, holding court over a keyboard is nothing compared to the work being done on a large scale, out in the real world, on behalf of all transgender people by some brave people who have transitioned.

    When someone turns away from the forum to face the world they might be missed but should be commended. That is the way it used to be around here.
    Last edited by Jeri Ann; 12-28-2018 at 03:04 PM.

  9. #34
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    As I said previously I am not going to get into this in depth further as it is taking a toll on me emotionally being a lightening rod for the anger of others. I will comment briefly. As Kaitlyn was kind to point out I mean well - she strongly disagrees with me which she is certainly entitled to do but at least she acknowledges my intentions.

    1. I agree with what Kelly said. I think she makes good points.

    2. Jeri Ann I am not making moral judgments on anyone or how they live their lives. If it comes across that way either I did not word it properly or it was misinterpreted by those reading it - perhaps due to their own feelings or the disconnect between my intentions and how they were received. There is probably some merit to both.

    I do think that when the rest of society does not know us that they do not learn that we are just people trying to live their lives. Being stealth does not change that. Also being stealth is a form of hiding something about ourselves - that is not a judgment of right or wrong simply how it is.

  10. #35
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KymberlyOct View Post
    Also being stealth is a form of hiding something about ourselves - that is not a judgment of right or wrong simply how it is.
    No. You cannot make assumptions about being stealth and then declare them as facts. You keep doing this over and over again in this thread, and it's extremely annoying.

  11. #36
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    I find it interesting that the majority of replies see this discussion as criticism - at what point did I say someone was immoral or doing anything wrong? I simply stated my opinion that there are negatives to the concept of living as stealth.

    Some people agree I had to clear the history on my PMs because it couldn't handle anymore - the quantity is 250 - not saying the entire 250 was about that - there was already some history. But nonetheless - I have received a lot of support - but they don't want to say it here because they ( in their words - don't want to be bullied ) so OK you win - I am done. I am a mean spirited - critical person that is judging everyone's lives. Happy?

    I came back to be thought provoking - to share my experiences so that others following in the path behind me could benefit as I did from those that went before me. So that's it I am not leaving but I am done with this thread and also taking a much lower profile.

  12. #37
    Super Moderator Jeri Ann's Avatar
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    Kym, you are the only one that has penned the words moral or immoral in this entire thread. It makes one wonder why those words even came to your mind.

    And again, you state that there are negatives to how other people live their life. I know, it is only your opinion so it is ok.

    I'm done with this thread too.

  13. #38
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Angry Moderator's Note

    Once again we have a poster claiming that people who express their opinions here will be bullied, with absolutely NO evidence offered!

    That is enough! Staff work hard to prevent anyone being bullied in any part of the forum.

    This thread is over, but the next time I see that unsubstantiated slur, be prepared for an infraction.
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 12-29-2018 at 03:12 AM.
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