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Thread: Cold Shower

  1. #1
    Member Sara Olivia's Avatar
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    Cold Shower

    Today marks the low point of the past year and a half in my life. For the past 18 months since starting to live as Sara full time, I have been treated with respect and kindness by everyone I've met. In that time I have virtually never been misgendered and the few times it happened it was family and friends who knew me long before my transition and they always caught themselves right away, corrected themselves and apologized. That was until last night. We were invited to the home of our best friends to celebrate New Year's with them and some of their neighbours whom they had invited. These neighbours were strangers to us. Both my best friend and his wife have been friends for over 30 years and were in our wedding party. Someone whom I thought had accepted me as Sara though whom we haven't seen that much in the past few years because we are all very busy with work, raising children, and such.

    Back to last night. Without fail, and without ever apologizing or correcting himself, my friend referred to me as "HE" all evening long to his neighbours. At least a dozen times that I was aware of. Not wanting to make a scene I pretended not to hear and kept ignoring it. The male neighbors quickly joined in in referring to me as a "HE". We were sitting around the friends kitchen island on bar stools except for two of us who were standing due to a shortage of bar stools. One of the neighbors wives said to her husband "Can you please get a chair for Sara so that she can sit down as well." His response " I already offered HIM a chair but HE said he was ok standing. This went on all night. I have never been as humiliated and upset in my entire life. The person whom I considered one of my best friends totally gutted me. My wife is upset because she is very close with my friends wife and really enjoys socializing with her. Now all seems at risk of collapse. Not sure that I want anything more to do with my friend. My suspicion is that the invitation for New Year's came more from his wife and not from him. I think he was embarrassed to have me around his neighbors and subsequently let me know his displeasure by misgendering me at every opportunity, knowing that this really upsets me.

    Anyways I am writing this more to vent than for any other reason. I suppose that most likely the year is bound to improve from this dismal start. At least that is what I tell myself.

  2. #2
    Call me Pam pamela7's Avatar
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    Oh, that's horrible, I really feel it, having lost my own best friend (best man also) through the process. My brother visited this week, and he kept on getting it wrong until i gave him a sharp public rebuke, at which point he seemed to get it and change.

    If you ever get this situation again, I suggest strongly correcting the first misgendering in the room, and people quickly fall into line.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
    I used to believe this, now I'm in the company of many tiggers. A tigger does not wonder why she is a tigger, she just is a tigger.

    thanks to krististeph: tigger = TG'er .. T-I-GG-er

  3. #3
    Senior Member Laura912's Avatar
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    The ones doing the misgendering were all lemmings following the first one over the cliff. Of course the real lemmings do not do that, just the idiot human ones. A swift kick to the verbal gonads of the first person would have kept the train on the track. Hopefully the remaining 364 days in the year will be better.

  4. #4
    Aspiring Member Eemz's Avatar
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    Oh that sucks. What an a-hole. I'm so sorry you had this experience Sara. It was one day out of 18 months (550 or so days) but coming from someone you didn't expect makes it hurt even more. It also sounds like he knows you're vulnerable in this area and used it against you. Possibly also that you're not a confrontational person and unlikely to tackle him in public. A real piece of work, all in all.

    I see only two options now - either write him off and walk away, or confront the issue head-on if you think the relationship is worth fighting for. Pretending it never happened is not an option, imho, and will only encourage him to go further next time.

    Confronting it head-on doesn't have to mean "what the .... is your problem?" and in fact that's probably not very useful now. You could go with "clearly there's something here that we need to talk about, can we please get it all out in the open and work it out?". If he can't or won't talk then there's nothing you can do.

    I agree with Laura's lemmings comment btw.
    Last edited by Eemz; 01-01-2019 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #5
    Aspiring Member Dorit's Avatar
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    My heart goes out to you! I too can identify having had a thirty year friend refuse to use my new name. I think you have a healthy attitude, 2019 can only get better. Happy New Year Sara!

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Jeri Ann's Avatar
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    Oh Sara,

    These things are so painful. I had a friend of thirty five years who was the first person I came out to. He and his wife were very supportive. They even helped me move when I had to relocate. Then, nothing, I have called ten times with no answer. I have texted many times, no response. It hurts, it really does.

    I am down to only one friend from my past.

  7. #7
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about this. It feels like a betrayal, doesn’t it? And from someone you thought was a best friend...

    I’ve found myself much happier forming new friendships with women who’ve never known me as anything but female, rather than trying to preserve old friendships with men. Even if they do manage to see me as a woman, it’s now a male/female friendship, and those are always way more complicated than same sex friendships. Transitioning is frequently a total upheaval of one’s life, both physical and social. It’s very hard.

  8. #8
    Aspiring Member grace7777's Avatar
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    So sorry to hear what happened to you. Being that this person was a best friend must make this situation even worse. Probably not much you can do except move on from this person.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Adelaide's Avatar
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    I really feel for you. It must have been a very difficult moment for you. I agree with Eemz about the 2 options. However, I'm also interested in the following: How did you wife react to it all?

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member Kelli_cd's Avatar
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    I'm really sorry you had to experience that, Sara. The guy must be a real tool. I agree with what others have said here, no need to repeat any of it, except, again, I'm sorry.

  11. #11
    Member Anne K's Avatar
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    So sorry about the bump in the road. I like Eemz idea. It may be a way to purge your hurt and resentment.

  12. #12
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Im sorry this happened to you.

    I don't know how i would have handled it..

    In the end, its unlikely it will be worth your time to confront this. It's not impossible that things could change, but it would take alot more than a conversation to see that change.

    He doesnt want you around. I hope this doesnt hurt your wife too much, because im sure she suffered from this as well. I wouldnt be surprised if this guy is hearing it from his wife, but that does nothing for you..

    It is a cold shower and i sorry you have to suffer it.
    I am real

  13. #13
    Aviatrix in Waiting Melanie Moxon's Avatar
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    Wow, that's awful. I hate to say it but it's time to cut lose and make it plain and clear why you are doing it. It's hard to cut off from people you have known for years and consider friends (I know I have done it, though for different reasons) but sometimes needs must.

  14. #14
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    Sara,
    Your friend's behavior was awful. Is there any chance that he was being macho so that the other males didn't see his softer side? If he is a true friend, he will apologize for his behavior.

  15. #15
    Gold Member Lana Mae's Avatar
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    Sorry this happened to you! Best wishes on moving on! Hugs Lana Mae
    Life is worth living!
    "Foxy lady! You look so good!!" Jimi Hendrix

  16. #16
    Silver Member Devi SM's Avatar
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    Sara, I think you should had tried any opportunity, after the first "mistake", to talk with your "friend" that for me is no one.
    Obviously you didnt do it.
    I wouldn't wait now for any kind of apologize. If he does, simply don't accept it. It'd be just a hypocrite and coward attitude.
    Your wife can keep being friends with the his wife but I would avoid any kind of future relationship with him.
    Lately, we live in a changing world but just the brave people pushed those changes. You're out with that guy, he knew, so no excuse, you should had face him so everybody would have something to say, I think that would had been a short night.
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  17. #17
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    Sara, I just went to some of your earlier posts and wondered if the lack of contact with him over the past few years re: your transitioning may have fed fuel to his fire, so to speak, as you showed up as a woman. Did he NOT know? If the wives were close friends, did his wife ever give your wife an hint as to his feelings about you?

    I absolutely agree with the others. He was a royal SOB for what he did to you. Even if he thought he was just being a joking smart ass, he was wrong. If YOU might wish to try to salvage your friendship, Send him an email and pointedly ask him why he did what he did. If he persists in his attitude, dump him from your life. If he indicates he's sorry, ask to meet with him privately to discuss, maybe even giving him select copies of your forum posts to try to bring him to better understanding YOUR need and reasons to transition. Some friendships are worth trying to save. Others, not so.

    Good luck on whatever you decide. It is your life, after all.
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 01-03-2019 at 08:58 PM. Reason: Don't try to get round the word filter. It is there for a reason

  18. #18
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Sara, life is TOO SHORT to have to accept BS! U need to tell people how u feel!

    If he embarrassed u, u should have said so.
    "Teddy, you're embarrassing me. Please refer to me as "she"."

    If that embarrassed him, u would have been even at least!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  19. #19
    Member Sara Olivia's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your words of support and your suggestions. I really appreciate it. I'm still upset over it and though my so called friend now knows that I was very upset I still have not had any kind of response so I'm guessing the friendship is over - which, at this point, is fine by me.
    As to some of your comments. Pam you are right I should have nipped it in the butt right away but at first I thought it was due to carelessness on my friends part. Then as the evening went on I just didn't want to ruin the evening for the others. If it had been any evening other than New Years I would have left after the first or second mistake. As it was, I stupidly kept my mouth shut and just let them insult me time and again all night.
    Jeri Ann I'm kind of on the same track as you in that now two of my best friends seem to be rejecting me. The first rejection was from one of my best friends who is a psychiatrist. He was someone I confided in before even confiding in my parents and other close family members. I assumed, him being a psychiatrist - if anybody was going to accept me it would be him. How wrong I was. He has not spoken to me since I started living as Sara full time.
    Mirya, I so agree with you about forming new friendships with new people - my problem is that I am still happily married and happily raising two wonderful kids and in the same great job where I was prior to transition. My colleagues, family and others have been wonderful. So moving away and starting a new life is not the right direction for my life. That meant that I still see many of the people who knew me prior to transition on a daily basis. Most are great a small minority pretend I don't exist and until now none have been actually hostile towards me.
    Adelaide, the response from my wife was complicated. On the one hand I think she understood how they made me feel. On the other hand she is really worried about losing her best friend - my friends wife is my wife's best friend. So she is attributing it more to thoughtlessness on my friends part and thinks I am making much more out of it than I should given that they are "supposedly" our best friends. So she and I have actually had arguments over this because I felt she was supporting my friend more than she was supporting my position of being very humiliated that night.
    Michele, the same thought went through my mind as one of his neighbors is a real red neck and perhaps my friend felt awkward. Though he should not have thrown me under the bus to protect his machismo. Thats a rather cowardly thing to do in my mind. And he has not apologized so that is not helping him.

    Vanessa, ultimately I think the outcome will be as you suggest. My wife and his wife will continue their friendship and meet up from time to time and he and I will go our seperate ways from here forward.

    Jenny, I have lived fulltime as Sara for almost a year and a half. In that time our friends have often visited us and met Sara. We've also been to their house since numerous times. They most recently were at our home for Boxing Day where we spent the entire afternoon and evening together - all the while me dressed as Sara. The only difference at New Years was including other people, not family, in the mix. To this point we have never been in public together though we did run into each other at the local pub a few times in the past year where again I was fully dressed as Sara. They did not seem uncomfortable at the time talking to us at the pub. But I could be wrong.

    Finally, Sherry you are so right. In the future I will be blunt and tell people when I feel they are purposely making me feel uncomfortable or embarrassed. Life really is too short especially when you've waited until your 50's to actually start living your real life.
    Last edited by Sara Olivia; 01-04-2019 at 04:10 PM.

  20. #20
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Olivia View Post
    Jenny, I have lived fulltime as Sara for almost a year and a half. In that time our friends have often visited us and met Sara. We've also been to their house since numerous times. They most recently were at our home for Boxing Day where we spent the entire afternoon and evening together - all the while me dressed as Sara. The only difference at New Years was including other people, not family, in the mix. To this point we have never been in public together though we did run into each other at the local pub a few times in the past year where again I was fully dressed as Sara. They did not seem uncomfortable at the time talking to us at the pub. But I could be wrong.
    What you wrote in this quoted text is the key. Your friend has shown in the past that he accepts you, but only in private. We now know, from the New Year's Eve party, that he does not publicly support you, for fear of being judged by his own circle of friends and neighbors. What this really means is that all this time, he never truly accepted you. He merely tolerated you.

    There is a lot of social stigma against not only transgender women, but the cis people who accept and support us. This is especially true for cis men, who frequently believe that their masculinity is at stake when they openly show support for a trans woman.

  21. #21
    Member Sara Olivia's Avatar
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    Mirya, I do believe that you are right. I've had the same thought but do struggle to accept the level of cowardice and meanness it would take to invite someone to your home and then throw them under the bus like that. I would like to think that I know my friend better than that but apparently I do not.

  22. #22
    Call me Pam pamela7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Olivia View Post
    Jenny, I have lived fulltime as Sara for almost a year and a half. In that time our friends have often visited us and met Sara. We've also been to their house since numerous times. They most recently were at our home for Boxing Day where we spent the entire afternoon and evening together - all the while me dressed as Sara. The only difference at New Years was including other people, not family, in the mix. To this point we have never been in public together though we did run into each other at the local pub a few times in the past year where again I was fully dressed as Sara. They did not seem uncomfortable at the time talking to us at the pub. But I could be wrong.
    This reminded me of a scene in "Grease" (the movie) where Sandy meets Danny at school, and he denies knowing her in public. This is his ego at play, and in the film he later overcomes this and all ends well. It got me wondering therefore, if perhaps, if you magnanimously went to see him, discussed it privately, whether in reality he feels really bad about how he treated you but he does not even know where to begin on apologising? In other words, it is worth giving him the chance at redemption?
    Last edited by pamela7; 01-05-2019 at 03:46 AM. Reason: typo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
    I used to believe this, now I'm in the company of many tiggers. A tigger does not wonder why she is a tigger, she just is a tigger.

    thanks to krististeph: tigger = TG'er .. T-I-GG-er

  23. #23
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    Hello Sarah Olivia, I really do feel for you and your New Year's eve fiasco with your friend. I agree with Pamela that meeting with him face to face is the way to go. I think that if you wait until the pain subsides and you can talk to him objectively and, for lack of a better word, maturely (controlling your feelings) you will have a much better chance of getting him to explain his feelings to you, and for you to explain to him how his behavior so deeply hurt you from a loved friend. If after that he feels that he needs more time to adapt and come to terms with who you now are, let him have that time and tell him that you will still be there for him when he wants to go out for coffee, a beer or a glass of wine. Good luck and keep working toward re-establishing that good friendship and relationship that you had with him before. I think that with you taking the high road he will respect you more and hopefully realize the error of his hurtful actions toward you.

    PS: I am going through a somewhat similar situation with my daughter. I have been waiting for her to talk to me about her feelings about me to no avail. After an argument with her last March related to who I am. I told her at that time I did not want to see her until she was ready to talk with me about everything. It was a very painful 8 months for me because we were very close and saw each other all the time. She was finally convinced to invite me to our family Thanksgiving dinner recently. I went, we hugged had some small talk and enjoyed the evening as best we could. Then came Christmas eve and day when again we all get together at her house for food, drinks, talk and opening gifts. She was much more relaxed and almost normal with me. I have been thinking hard about this and have come to an interesting conclusion. I will continue to try to see her to get back into our old wonderful routines and will not insist on having that "talk" anymore. Hopefully, that approach from me will help her relax and help her feel like getting back to us being us together as it was before. The only difference being my presentation outwardly to her.

    I agree with others that one can be close to someone when it is one on one, but the outward presentation is an issue for them when they are with us with their other friends and family who may or may not know us from before. So, I will need a lot of patience with my daughter going forward, and maybe more patience with your friend will help both of you over the long run.
    Last edited by AllieSF; 01-05-2019 at 01:58 PM.

  24. #24
    Curmudgeon Member donnalee's Avatar
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    There's no doubt you were ambushed; the question is why?
    Waiting for an apology will not work. You need to confront him face to face without others being present. Tell him how hurt you were by his behavior and ask him why he did it. Let him know that it was totally unaccep0table and that you will not put up with it, otherwise there is no way you can continue what up to then had been, in your eyes, a highly valued relationship.
    ALWAYS plan for the worst, then you can be pleasantly surprised if something else happens!

    "The important thing about the bear is not how well she dances, but that she dances at all." - Old Russian Proverb (with a gender change)

  25. #25
    Member Tommie.'s Avatar
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    I'm sorry this happened... similar things have happened to me at work. I take a little different stance on this... in talking to your wife would opposing or speaking out to people embarrass your wife? It seems wso in the discussion above. If yes, then the embarrassment becomes a wedge and I suggest might begin an issue that may not be worth the marriage loss. Correcting in private has more value than in public sometimes if it's worth the confrontation, which I agree with Mirya it most likely is not. Before the estradiol set in some time back and cooled my temper, my former self would have confronted..... no longer... as stated by others life is too short and maybe just look for those who will enjoy you as you are now. NTL I repsect all responses as each must be willing to accept and live their actions. May your way be made easy.... hugs
    Enjoy our new life and seek peace Give love and kindness to others Live patience, self control, humility each day

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