Questions from the wives of my SO's social group

[Kelly DeWinter]

Miki;

I listen to a lot of radio and a few years ago there was a program about an analysis on how salaries and raises are determined. I don't remember the parameters but the uptake was that men were willing to risk more to get more. In a job interview men were more likely to leave without the job if the pay did not meet their expectations. In performance reviews that same held true if the review and increase were not in line with their expectations, they were more apt to leave seek employment elsewhere. More then half were likely to leave if no annual raised were offered. The conclusion was that women were more risk adverse then men when it came to employment. I ran a consulting company for 15 years, so for me it was easy to create a compensation based on billable hours, increases and profit sharing were based on the same, Since I offered maternity leave and paternity leave equally I did not have that thorny issue. The only tough one was when an employee had to take a leave of absence doe to illness.

[Di]

Answering as a wife and long time mod here.

I have seen over the years threads about guys aggressive behavior towards a cder outand about / they are scared and shocked/ we GGs grew up always being careful / do not be alone / be careful where you park and on and on. Just recently at work a guy put his hands on me/ Iwas just at work doing my job .....why would someone presume to even do that ??? It really is how a woman have to be aware at all times. ( it was caught on camera and sorted but even at work you can’t let your guard down.

Another thing is when it comes to sex males are visual/ again posts about I dressed in my sexy nightie and my wife got mad and I was expecting her to be turned on like I was with the sight of me in my nightie -Ahhh really? The women I know get more excited by the attention you give them and are loving and caring all day and not seeing you in a nightie.
More personal note
In the beginning when I met Sher it was such an adventure and Iwanted her to experience everything she ever dreamed of ......I taught her things and we learned together. After many yrs married it really was like two women living our life and it as not a huge rush like it was in the beginning it was just our life together and it kinda was no matter how she dressed ( she wanted to stay in drab for work) she was always Sherlyn like I’m just always me ( Di) And that was wonderful.
Thanks Char for letting me answer as well.

[Jenny22]

I've said this before and I'll do it again. I am damned impressed with the insight of sisters here and how well opinions are expressed on subjects that may even be difficult to fully comprehend. I'm honored to read them!

[RADER]

This is some interesting Post. Just reading all of these great ideas, has given me much thought.
I was impressed with (DI) post. It sums up everything in a way.
My wife was OK with my dressing, but do not leave the house as to embarase her. I always kept
her wishes. I did not push the issue to often, and some times she would dress me.
I learned a lot today; thanks to all.
Rader

[susie evans]

Char / DI
First thx for the thread it is very interesting and a lot of good input

[biancabellelover]

Or just the fact that men can leave the house without making sure they took appropriate anti-rape measures? If you don’t think it’s a priveldge to walk down the street and not worry about being assaulted, then you REALLY need to look into women’s experiences more.

That is an entirely fictional "Privilege", Micki.

The fact that men "don't worry about being assaulted" is the reason why the rates of random assaults leading to murder is almost double for men than it is for women. I've written about this topic at length in other threads. The gist of it is, is that men should take exactly the same precautions that women do when going anywhere or doing anything.

Michelle.

[Rochal Tukque]

A question to your group. If you grew up knowing with every fiber of your being that there was another side to your personality and gender and you were condemned by social programming and pressure that you were not to be aloud to express that openly without discrimination and ridicule, what would your overall quality of life be?

[ellbee]

In society Men are generally predator and women prey...

Oh, I'm sure one could make the case that it's also the opposite, too.


Can & do GG's prey on men, whether psychologically, emotionally, sexually, financially, etc.? You better believe it. Plenty out there that supports that.

*How* they go about it, can greatly differ than when a man is the predator, of course.



And here's just a snippet on this topic, if I may...


Overall researchers also found men were more reluctant to report abuse by a woman.

“The idea that women can be sexually manipulative, dominant, and even violent runs counter to these stereotypes. Yet studies have documented female-perpetrated acts that span a wide spectrum of sexual abuse,” they write.

It is something Ms Stemple feels is one of the reasons it remains widely under-reported.

“There’s still this perception globally that women aren’t perpetrators of sexual victimisation,” she said.

“There’s also this perception that male victims haven’t been harmed, or they welcome it, which is far from true.

“Men report similar or roughly the same mental health outcomes as female victims.”

Ms Stemple also said society struggled to deal with the notion that men could be abused by women and that it was harder for men to be believed or to be taken seriously when they did report it.

Ms Stemple also said it was true that many didn’t report it because they don’t think they’ll be believed.

In many cases men were coerced or manipulated and felt they couldn’t report such abuse.

“Looking at all the data, I was shocked,” she said, adding abuse perpetrated by women was a huge concern.


https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...8242dc0cc72197

[Beverley Sims]

I feel the difference between the sexes is interests, women are more into raising children and men are more interested in supporting the family they have helped create.

When dressed I will nurse someones baby lovingly and tenderly, as a man I am all fingers and thumbs over the same deal.

I can sit with a group of women and discuss womens issues but as a man I find beer and football more of a talking point.

I will browse in a shop and look at clothing for a long time dressed but as a man I only shop out of necessity or for hobby like interest.

Yes I feel more comfortable in womens company and with men I am like a duck out of water.

When I was younger I mixed it with the boys along with the other girls.

[Kelly DeWinter]

ellbee;

Good points. I know that I'm one of those people who has a blind spot when it comes to predatory women. For me it comes from having to be protective of my sisters while growing up (long story there).

Even my wife says that I am soft when it comes to women with a sob story (In my line of work you hear a lot of sad stories).

Maybe that's another difference men tend to be protectors as well.

[sometimes_miss]

Young attractive women (arm candy?) are viewed as desirable.

I've never known a man to pick a woman to be arm candy. Men pick women that we would like to have sex with. If other people happen to think she's pretty as well, fine. But to have 'arm candy' isn't ever the primary reason we choose her, and just as often, we prefer to keep her to ourselves rather than expose her to the eyes of our competition, i.e., male friends and co-workers. The media stereotypical male locker room bragging about the hot chick we scored with isn't how a lot of men behave. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never heard boys OR men talking about who and where they had sex in locker rooms or anywhere else, for that matter. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but to think it's the norm isn't correct.

Kelly, I am talking in a broad sense. For instance "victim blaming" in rape cases. You always hear things like "She was dressed provocatively", like that somehow excuses the rapist. Along those same lines, unwanted pregnancy. Why are women told to keep their legs shut if they don't want children, but us men are never told to keep it in our pants?

FWIW, my dad DID tell me to keep it in my pants, or at least make sure I use protection.
But there's a distinct slant on responsibility here: If a woman get's pregnant, it's assumed to be the man's responsibility. If a man gets VD, it's not at all the woman's responsibility. Women can unilaterally stop themselves from getting pregnant; if she doesn't want to get pregnant, there's absolutely nothing a man can to, to force the issue. The last study coming out of planned parenthood was that 95% of women who came in with supposed unwanted pregnancies were either not using any birth control at all, or not using it correctly. What does that tell us about these women? That they all wanted the MAN to be the one responsible for them.

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer. What do we know? Well they all have SOs and they wear women's clothes. I would be willing to bet that when you get down to it, each one is different.

I don't think that each person has a different reason; I think that there are groups of us who have something in common with what causes us to feel this way, but that it's going to be very hard to figure out what it is, all because of how we grew up, believing that to be feminine in any way was the most horrific, terrible thing that we could be. So when we became that, we can't accept it, and bury the causative factors so deep in our minds that they may never be discovered. What I do think, is that there is no one, single cause of why we do this.

Also I bet that few if any can answer the why question, other than because it feels good.

Then the question remains, why does if feel good? And unfortunately, most don't really want to know, judged by all the 'I was born this way' responses that always show up.

And yes, I can answer the 'why' question about myself. But it wasn't easy to figure out, and it took me decades, with a whole lot of confusion along the way. And for me, it involved numerous additive influences along the way besides the major one, so I can't imagine my exact experience being a common cause. That said, all the things that had to come together in just the right combination to make me into the person that I am, it's pretty clear that other paths to the same end result could occur as well.

The answers have gone deep into the inner workings of the male/female mind.

And so, professional psychologists or not, we all have to start learning about those deep, inner workings! Because that's the only way we're going to figure it out. But as always, be careful what you wish for (knowledge about why your mate crossdresses) because you might not like what you find out: About not just your mate, but about yourselves, as well. Most people have little or no idea about why they fall in love with a particular person, or even why they're attracted to them in the first place. Most just prefer to chalk it up to 'chemistry', or fate. But recent studies have shown that's not true at all. I refer you to a book by Timothy Perper, PhD, which explains many of the psychological things that go on in our heads during the mating rituals: https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Signals-B...iology+of+love

what I can tell, the SO's are trying to understand is the difference between "day to day" goings on between men and women.

It's pretty clear what the differences are; all one has to do, is start writing down each activity and experience that each sex has during a normal day. It's not really that hard do to, as I have done it many times. Start with waking up, shutting off the alarm, walking to the bathroom, etc..

One way of easing the gender identity dysphoria, is to realize that most of what we do each day is simply not gender or sex specific. Does a woman take OJ out of the fridge differently than a man? Make toast? Spread butter or jam? Chew our food & swallow? Put stamps on an envelope? Fill out forms? lock the doors? Drive to work? Park? The vast majority of what we do, is the same. Crossdressers may emphasize the differences and focus on them in order to get the temporary 'I'm a female' feeling we need to quell the GID, but on the whole, we live very similarly.

I'm guessing that the women in the group are trying to figure out what differences might make a male prefer the day to day life of a female instead of his own. And perhaps that fits into the 'the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence' type of theory, where the wife just assumes that her CD mate is looking for what might be assumed is an easier life.
But here's the wrench in that theory; It's not about the other sex's lifestyle or activities or privileges that makes it 'feel better'; it's more about feeling normal as our own self. Time and time again, I read on this very forum, about how women's clothes feel so much better than mens. And yet, from women's description of those very same clothes, we know that isn't true. Now why would there be such a divide on this concept?
Because its not PHYSICAL comfort of the attire that the crossdresser is experiencing when he wears women's clothing; it's the psychological comfort we get by feeling and knowing that we're in the correct, the female, clothes. The physical difference in tactile and visual sensations we get, are what contribute to that psychological comfort, even though they may not actually provide physical comfort at all (as seen in those of us who say we love wearing those painful heels).

So without the obvious differences in experiences regarding how males and females were raised, they wonder what difference the clothes make.

The clothes help identify us to ourselves, as either what we want to be, or already feel ourselves to be, whether that is correct or not. Think about it; don't we all choose our attire to reflect what we want express? The only difference here is, for the crossdresser, he's expressing it to himself first and foremost, the ritual of putting on all the female things and even doing it in 'the appropriate female way' being just as important. Conscious or subconscious, the self identification of 'female' is going on in a whole lot of us. The big problem is, there's a huge psychological obstacle in the way of recognizing it. So they pretend that it's just the clothes, or the feel of the fabric, etc..

The fact that men "don't worry about being assaulted" is the reason why the rates of random assaults leading to murder is almost double for men than it is for women.

It's also very telling about the ways that men resolve conflicts vs how women do. Men are way more likely to resort to violence because it's an accepted part of the male hierarchy in our society. In every group of men, each knows where he stands in the ability to fight, how much money he makes, how smart he is compared to the others, and how successful he is.

men should take exactly the same precautions that women do when going anywhere or doing anything.

Won't happen. We know that we'd be derided for being chicken or worse, sissies, for being afraid of danger. Guys are NEVER supposed to admit or even hint that we might be afraid; both other men AND women will see it as weakness.

[Kelly DeWinter]

sometimes miss

"

FWIW, my dad DID tell me to keep it in my pants, or at least make sure I use protection.
But there's a distinct slant on responsibility here:

If a woman get's pregnant, it's assumed to be the man's responsibility.

(Well yes, it takes a man's semen to fertilize an egg in a woman, unless the woman has invitro fertilization) Also men have many options including condoms)

If a man gets VD, it's not at all the woman's responsibility.,

(Hold on there cowgirl, yes it could be or it could be a gay lover, or it could be a toilet seat Some STD can last outside of the human body for up to 12 minutes)

Women can unilaterally stop themselves from getting pregnant; if she doesn't want to get pregnant, there's absolutely nothing a man can to, to force the issue.

(What are you suggestion that they use fore of will ? or a mantra ? Women throughout the ages have from time to time had an oops child. Also yes, men can and have forced the issue, through rape, which in happens too many times)

The last study coming out of planned parenthood was that 95% of women who came in with supposed unwanted pregnancies were either not using any birth control at all, or not using it correctly.

(It's hard to believe a study without some sort of reference, please provide one if possible)

What does that tell us about these women? That they all wanted the MAN to be the one responsible for them.

( That's a pretty broad statement, If that were true wouldn't it be prudent to trip up some geeky millionaire then the high school or college sweetheart ?)

You really put 99% of the responsibility on women when men also have as much if not MORE responsibility and seem to absolve men of responsibility when it comes to pregnancy.

Just one question . Why ?

[phili]

The clothes help identify us to ourselves, as either what we want to be, or already feel ourselves to be,

Beautifully said, Lexi- for this is the larger problem for all trans people. It is not just that we want to play dressup, we are feeling our gender differently. That is scary for others.

I would not be surprised that for some portion of CDers it is all about the clothes and play acting for interest and stress relief. But perhaps dysphoria driven CDing is an important point for the women's group to consider. FABs each have their own version of what female means- and many struggle to varying degrees with social restrictions placed on their gender, just as we do. But if they are not aware of the murk of gender dysphoria, they generally won't understand in a really affirmative way why we would find acting as if we are female better than just being male and otherwise who we already are.

They wonder what in the heck we think being a woman means. It doesn't make sense to them for us to think we are/can be female since we obviously aren't, so trans* motivated crossdressing is just confusing and therefore offputting ! Most men won't regard trans men as men- but as weird wannabes- so it is a similar situation. No one is sure how to draw the line yet as to what constitutes being a woman or man.

As more of us are out and about as a visible and harmless minority, I know the fear and trembling will go away even if the confusion doesn't lessen. A trans man lived on a Wyoming ranch I worked- and that's how it was- she was a female man and respected as much as was possible for not understanding anything about her besides her kindness and competence, reliability, fearless steadiness, and determination. She was a class of human all her own out there-and I am sure very lonely.

The big win I'd like would be that enough of us appear to show there is a decent minority of male women and female men. Marriages will form and children be raised, etc.

[biancabellelover]

Hi sometimes_miss

It's also very telling about the ways that men resolve conflicts vs how women do. Men are way more likely to resort to violence because it's an accepted part of the male hierarchy in our society. In every group of men, each knows where he stands in the ability to fight, how much money he makes, how smart he is compared to the others, and how successful he is.

While I agree with the above comment, I feel that it's not relevant to the point that I was making. Which was about the random assaults. Many of the male victims in these assaults aren't in the "Let's step outside and settle this" scenario.

The victims of these assaults are from being 'king hit' (or 'Coward punch' as they are now called in Australia). These types of attack are completely unprovoked; often coming from behind. The point is, is that women are less likely to find themselves in these vulnerable positions. They will cross the street to avoid men. They look over their shoulders to check for people following, etc. The reason they do this is that from a very young age they're taught to be cautious. Men aren't taught this and put themselves in dangerous situations without realising it.

Won't happen. We know that we'd be derided for being chicken or worse, sissies, for being afraid of danger. Guys are NEVER supposed to admit or even hint that we might be afraid; both other men AND women will see it as weakness.

Who cares? Anyone deriding me will be laughed at! There are way too many epitaphs: "Died because he was afraid of being called a wuss"!

Michelle

[ellbee]

I don't want to derail this too much, but I couldn't help but think of this thread after seeing both of these recent ads...


This first one from Gillette has gotten a *lot* of flak -- from both men & women. Whether it's justified, I won't get into that. But it did get to the point where many disapproving comments & even "Dislikes" were removed, it was that bad. And people are boycotting them (and the products of their parent-company) because of this ad...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0

(NOTE: I can only post one video per post, so I'm not going to embed this one. But please watch first if you're not already familiar with it.)



On the flip side?

A small watch company put out a "response ad," which has gotten a lot of *praise* -- again, from both men & women. Hence, sales of their products have apparently been booming...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_HL0wiK4Zc





I suppose it's all about perspective, of how one willingly chooses to view or not view certain things...

[Eboni Robinson]

ellbee, Kelly DeWinter, and biancabellelover I love everything you ladies have brought to the discussion. A lot of people don't understand that everyone faces hardships and struggles. That is a fact of life, women have issues unique to them just as men do. Its just as dangerous being woman as it is being a man.

[donnalee]

sometimes miss If a woman get's pregnant, it's assumed to be the man's responsibility. [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

(Well yes, it takes a man's semen to fertilize an egg in a woman, unless the woman has invitro fertilization) Also men have many options including condoms)

If a man gets VD, it's not at all the woman's responsibility.,

(Hold on there cowgirl, yes it could be or it could be a gay lover, or it could be a toilet seat Some STD can last outside of the human body for up to 12 minutes)

[LEFT][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]

Sorry, Kelly; you can't get VD from a toilet seat.

[deebra]

ellbee I'm with you on your threads having been on the short end of the stick more than once from females. So would you rather be a woman ?????

[MoGG]

It was something of a revelation to me that people could dislike women intensely and still wish to cross-dress as them. Quite an eye opener.

[Stephanie Julianna]

I don't think that my quality of life would be different if I could present as female. I already work as a nurse, an obviously female dominated profession, that allows me to be openly caring and emotionally sensitive without judgement. Interestingly, my wife was an corporate international tax accountant manager making 6 figures while I made the lower woman's pay. I have a very close relationship with all my grandchildren but will admit that I am closer to the granddaughters. I would hope that if they found out about Stephanie that nothing would change but I'm not sure I would want to test that. I don't think that presenting as female would change my love of old cars or anything else in this day and age. I think that my overall quality of life would improve solely because I would not be hiding anything about be and would for once feel whole. But I am a realist and understand that my liberalism about gender identity is still not that mainstream and acceptable. My wife has made it quite clear that she never wanted a girlfriend, she definitely wants a traditional husband or atleast whatever I can come close to as one. I just hope that in my next life I can return to being my complete self as a woman.

[Teresa]

Stephanie,
It's a trade off I'm having to live with less and less , also seeing less of the guy just makes me me far happier . I admit my relationship with my granddaughter is closer but then my daughter accepts me as Teresa whereas my son and his wife don't . Is it fair to say it's harder relating to boys rather than girls in that situation ? I guess we're back to the nature / nuture debate on this point , expectations of boys/men as opposed to females .

[ellbee]

It was something of a revelation to me that people could dislike women intensely and still wish to cross-dress as them. Quite an eye opener.

And in the same vein, I take it it's also a bit of surprise for one to realize that people could dislike men so intensely (e.g., hardcore male-bashing GG feminists) -- yet they still desire and fight tooth-&-nail to get to experience all that perceived male "privilege" (with the glaring exception of all the conveniently-overlooked disadvantages that automatically come with the territory, of course ).

A lot of people don't understand that everyone faces hardships and struggles. That is a fact of life, women have issues unique to them just as men do.

I've said it here before elsewhere, and that remains my position. Being a guy/GG totally sucks, in all kinds of different ways. And on the flip side, being a guy/GG is totally awesome, too... Again, in all kinds of different ways.

It's called life. Get over it, folks.


Yet, some people still insist on claiming that one or the other has it worse/better. Hint: Neither does.

People are constantly pitted against one another along all sorts of "divides"... Male/female, black/white, left/right, rich/poor, gay/straight, North/South, whatever. Always "us versus them." Been going on for thousands of years, to boot. And it's been especially ramped-up with the advent of mass media & particularly the internet. Where does this even come from, honestly? Is it the real-world, the way it was originally intended?


Ah, a quick peek at the ol' dictionary...

divide and conquer idiom
variants: or divide and rule
Definition of divide and conquer

: to make a group of people disagree and fight with one another so that they will not join together against one


Nope, not just a cutesy little saying.

Instead, the seeds are planted & the fire is flamed intentionally. And many people (including myself sometimes) simply buy into it hook, line & sinker. I mean, hey... If we're too busy fighting among ourselves, then it's practically impossible to band together and recognize & fight the *true* enemies of this earth. Distraction & deception... Divide & conquer.

The puppet-masters are as they pull those strings, making us say & do & think/feel all kinds of crazy BS things that tear us apart.


On a basic fundamental level, people actually *do* share a lot in common with one another. And the OP sorta touched on this a bit...

As humans, we all need food, shelter, some means of support/job, and usually a hobby or two.

But with all the bickering & disunity going on, one wouldn't think this is the case, at all. "Weird" how that works, eh?

So would you rather be a woman ?????

I am what I am?

I've got my own unique blend of "human expression" going on in this life... As we all do.

Mine just happens to be of a natal male. Why is that? Random fluke? Some kind of wish, or choice, or even decree, that's beyond the grasp of any person? No idea, couldn't tell you. Just is what it is.


And if I had been born a GG, or somewhere else along the TG spectrum, instead? Then I would simply accept it & play the cards I was dealt in life, to the best of my ability.

Would my life be different? In many ways, absolutely.

But fundamentally speaking, as the OP alluded to? Nope, not really. The basic gist is always there with each & every one of us.

[sometimes_miss]

So would you rather be a woman ?????

That's the question that I think a whole lot of women want to ask us, because they just, don't, have a clue as to how it feels to have GID. And personally, I think that a lot of us who feel, sometimes, that we WOULD like to be women, it's simply a response to want to get rid of the GID that keeps interfering with the rest of our lives. I could really do without the always present feeling that I'm supposed to be wearing girl clothes, and that I'm supposed to behave like a female. Or can't walk past a woman's clothing store without having to slow down, due to the yearning for something cute that I see in the window, and have to literally force myself to walk away instead of stop and appreciate just how pretty it is. Being a woman would resolve those problems, but also bring about all sorts of NEW problems that I do not currently have. Each sex has it's advantages and disadvantages; we don't get to choose. We have to 'play the cards we are dealt'.

[Jenny Elwood]

Well I would just like to state the unequivocal inalienably uncontested fact that: I don't know nothing about anything any more...

[Teresa]

Jenny,
You're just kidding us , I loved your threads and comments , they came from someone fully in touch with herself !

It's good to see you again , it's been far too long , is it just a passing visit or are you here to stay for a while ?