Hi All,
I have a quick little question for the F2M side of the hall: Are you guys that different from us - the M2F contingent?
I suspect that emotionally and intellectually we (both groups) have many of the issues. However, there always seems to be a lot of whinging over on our side of the hall - but over here: peace and quiet. Are you less conflicted? or just less vocal about it all?
Just curious...
Love & Stuff,
Donna
Just your average transgender non-op transsexual
crossdressing genderqueer transgenderist geek.
[SIZE="1"]The obligatory blog: http://wanderingaloud.wordpress.com/[/SIZE]
Well for me I am more quite about things. All though I have become more vocal since I have found this web site.
Hey, Donna:Originally Posted by Ms. Donna
Good question - I've noticed that too. Less conflicted? I doubt it. Less vocal? Could be. I can only speak for myself, of course, but I consider the FtM area to be a safe haven where I can express myself freely and without fear of judgement - for whatever reason.I have noticed that the MtF area seems more emotionally charged, but I couldn't even speculate a reason why. Maybe someone else has a clue.
But why is the rum gone?! - Capt. Jack Sparrow[SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl[/SIZE]
Why is the rum always gone? - Capt. Jack Sparrow[SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest[/SIZE]
Why is all but the rum gone? No, the rum's gone too . . .- [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: At World End[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]Lex on the Beach[/SIZE]. . . [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hmmmm. Interesting... Could be that guys (or those with a more male mentality) tend to keep their emotions in check more, or are less expressive, or what have you. Perhaps you folks take a more emotional approach, whereas we take a more logical one.
I know I myself am very emotional, but at the same time I always think situations through logically and express my opinions in a more logic-driven manner.
So, that could be the difference.
Although it would be an interesting experiment to get a bunch of MTFs and FTMs in a room together while somebody else studies what the differences are in communication, interaction, etc.
Yes-- socks! Run out again! Why is it that no matter how many millions of pairs of socks I buy, I never seem to have any? They just... disappear. Honestly, you'd think someone was coming in here, stealing the damn things, and selling them off. . . For me, socks are like sex: tons of it about, and I never seem to get any.
Here's a couple thoughts...
First is the still unequal status of men and women. (As the Bulloughs document in their book, FTM crossdressers have been tacitly accepted by Western society for centuries because it was considered "natural" that they'd aspire to the greater opportunities afforded men.) So a lot of us GMs have issues about why we'd want to assume an "inferior" status.
I'm not sure there's a similar dynamic for FTMs. You guys know better than me.... The closest insight I have is a GW friend who's a bit of trans cheerleader, in part because she feels she's got a masculine side to her -- which to her is good thing without downsides (for example, it helps be more assertive in her business dealings, etc.). It was only when I let her know that I personally dislike the phrase "gender gifted" (another conversation) did she realize that maybe we didn't see it the same way she did.
Second, as Abraxas mentioned, the "male" style of communicating is much more emotionally constricted. This was one the big points of Norah Vincent's "Self-Made Man," which if you haven't read I'd really urge you do so because she'd got a lot of insights on this. Nothing really new to those of us who are GMs, but it is interesting hearing it from the other side of the fence as it were.)
So just as us MTFs are in a sense "performing" our idea of how women communicate, I imagine you guys are doing the same about how men communicate.
Transman Raven Kaldera had an asute insight about how MTFs may act out their stereotypes of women until they've had a chance for their femme persona until it gets a chance to rub up against real people and real situations. I wouldn't be surprised if there was similar dynamic with FTMs. So we MTFs may act more "feminine" than the typical woman and FTMs may act more "masculine" than the typical man.
Lena
A dream? What is a dream, but a blueprint for courageous action.
http://www.adahlshouse.com
I come up against this a lot. I come across as a pretty masculine girl, but in others peoples' words, "a pretty faggy guy". I feel obligated to play up the masculine to buy myself some credibility, I guess.
Marlena's link to Raven Kaldera's writing is right on, I think. The newer MTFs I've known definitely overcompensate when it comes to female stereotypes. I haven't known many FTMs, but I'd guess that's also the case.
I'd like a thread about FTM femininity. If anybody else wants to save me the trouble of feeling like the center of attention by making it themselves, please do. :shifty:
I suspect that the more confortable you become with yourself, less you'll feel the need to overcompensate (at least a bunch of us across the hall feel that way.) It's like going through the whole social aspect of puberty all over again - learning what works and what doesn't in what situations.
As if the first time wasn't enough of a trauma. :mad:
Love & Stuff,
Donna
Just your average transgender non-op transsexual
crossdressing genderqueer transgenderist geek.
[SIZE="1"]The obligatory blog: http://wanderingaloud.wordpress.com/[/SIZE]
I've spent some time thinking this over.
Funny thing, if someone was researching masculine and feminine, a very interesting study would be: How mtf CD's are masculine in their approach to femininity, and how FTM's are feminine in their approach to masculinity.
MTF's wanna measure their heels, and if they've got a nice figure they wanna post their measurements, and oh yeah the tucking thing, "I want to wear girl clothes and direct your attention to my whatever while I'm talking about it."
The FTM's seem to have a more sane and measured approach to sexuality, maybe even in some cases are trying to find a way not to be sexual...in the former case, a more feminine approach than the MTF's. The two kinds of crossdressing seem really very different, not comparable, except for the self-doubting or self-accepting aspect that crosses both sides.
It's all enough to make your head spin!
I mentioned this to a wise MTF friend on here and she laughed and said basically, "Yep, there's a kind of macho mtf crossdressing".
Anyhow, that's how it looks to me
You guys be well.
"Inside of every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened."
"The best thing about the MBasic that comes with the Kaypro is that it allows variable names longer than two characters."
Wow, you're right about making the head spin. I've read this over a couple of times and it's so deep, yet so simple.
Funny you should mention that, Donna. My therapist recently asked me if maybe I was overcompensating (a term I dislike) and I got a bit defensive, as I don't see it, if that's really the case. It's frustrating to me, though, that although I feel I've changed so much internally in the past six months, not one person has really noticed an external change - not even the ones I'm out to.I don't think it's about caring what other people think, but it would be nice to have at least one other person see me as I see myself.
But why is the rum gone?! - Capt. Jack Sparrow
Why is the rum always gone? - Capt. Jack Sparrow
Why is all but the rum gone? No, the rum's gone too . . .
[SIZE="3"]Lex on the Beach[/SIZE]. . . [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There are some differences between us. I think it's the emotional evolution that we go through. As an MTF that has been the biggest change in me. I have always felt that I have more feminine traits than masculine. MTF's can be over the top at times trying to prove that they are feminine. FTM's seem more level headed to me. I believe we are the same as far as self acceptance and self confidence are concerned.
Gennee
I'm getting better with age. I may have started late, but better late than never!
"Don't let anyone define who you are".
Well said, gennee - makes a lot of sense to me.
Donna,
When I look in the mirror I see the me that I have seen evolve over the last 6-9 months. It is neither the me that I've been before, neither is it yet the me that I would like to become - somewhere in between. But, apparently, I'm the only one that sees that, which is what frustrates me. You ask if it's realistic for others to see that. Well, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect others to see some change since I've effected a change in wardrobe, physical appearance and manner.
Maybe I'm asking too much, but it seems that short of making a complete and drastic change (via hormones and surgery), nobody will notice the change I want others to see.
But why is the rum gone?! - Capt. Jack Sparrow
Why is the rum always gone? - Capt. Jack Sparrow
Why is all but the rum gone? No, the rum's gone too . . .
[SIZE="3"]Lex on the Beach[/SIZE]. . . [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The others 'see' it - they just don't know what to do wth the information. So, by and large, they disregard it.
Basically, everyone has a threshold for dealing with (i.e. discounting) non-conforming gender traits. The people with whom you work already 'know' you as a woman. To overcome that will be near impossible without actually comming out and having discussion. With those who don't 'know' you, you stand a better chance.
It's not a matter of asking too much. More a matter of recognizing the reality of it all - some will see it, some won't.Maybe I'm asking too much, but it seems that short of making a complete and drastic change (via hormones and surgery), nobody will notice the change I want others to see.
Somtimes I read as a woman, sometimes as a man - and I even manage to pull off a bona fide 'what is that' every now and then. For me personally, understanding that has made the need to be read a certain way that much less of an issue.
Of course, your milage will probably vary.
Love & Stuff,
Donna
Just your average transgender non-op transsexual
crossdressing genderqueer transgenderist geek.
[SIZE="1"]The obligatory blog: http://wanderingaloud.wordpress.com/[/SIZE]
I think it may be that simply the MtF side is more populated, and as you have more people, you have more opinions and things get more heated. And perhaps as it may be more overtly taboo and supressed by society, it's like putting something in a pressure cooker and then letting it explode. So when MtF find a community...it's a riot of activity.
ive been on various sites on the net and a fair few ive left because of one thing it ends up feeling like a guys club and yes i shall probably be hung drawn and quarterd for expressing that ..but thats how its felt ,i found that it ends up a very closed circle and its all locked into look how fem i am and very competitive each one trying to out do the other ..its just something ive noticed i dont know enough about mtf groups as i have not indulged so i cant say how those forums work
Okay...I come off as an over-talkative pre-teen boy. I guess you could say hyper active kiddo. LOL I don't overdo anything. I'm just myself. I probably come off a little efeminate. And I just had to say something to Emma. You are beautiful!!Taylor
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