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Thread: “Cross-dressing is not synonymous with being transgender”

  1. #1
    TrueNorth Strong & Fierce Princess Chantal's Avatar
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    “Cross-dressing is not synonymous with being transgender”

    Everyday I enjoy reading the random page suggestions that Wikipedia offers up daily. Today it was the word “cross-dressing”. As I read it, the sentence that struck me as interesting was “Cross-dressing is not synonymous with being transgender.”
    I know there are strong opinions on here of both ends of it being true or being false. Let’s hear those opinions, however let’s make it interesting with these posting rules
    1) do not read any posts in this thread until you post your opinion with a good explanation of why you are of that opinion
    2) Fill free to read all other posts once you did your post but please wait a day before posting again

    By the way, I don’t have a strong opinion either for or against the statement. I tend to straddle the fence with my toes touching on both sides of grass!
    Last edited by Princess Chantal; 03-28-2019 at 05:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Laura912's Avatar
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    It might really help the discussion if you would define the two terms because your thread could dissolve into what each means and not address your interesting hypothesis.

  3. #3
    I can only be me Samm's Avatar
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    I believe cd's can just be cd's.
    I also believe cd's can be, or at least have some percentage of tg (no matter how small).
    I also, also believe that one doesn't have to be connected to the other.

    I hope that makes sense

  4. #4
    Goddess-In-Training Macey's Avatar
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    Like so many other things in life, it's a spectrum. I think. Most of us eschew labels, yet we wear so many, father mother, friend, employee, and possibly many more. Words and language has it's limitations yet it is the tool we use to convey something about ourselves, the world around, and our place in it. "Crossdresser" is about as accurate a label for me as any other in the context of this group. "Transgender"? For myself, I doubt it … but that doesn't mean there isn't a strong feminine side within me. The full tale would be long in the telling, so for the convenience of friendly conversation you could say of me "Crossdresser" with enough confidence to render it in a 'thou art that' fashion.

    Sure, there's so much more, and there's so much more for every person.

    Are they synonymous? In our 'common' understanding of the words that is not so 'common', no … they are not synonymous. But neither are they always mutually exclusive.

  5. #5
    Girl about Town Jodie_Lynn's Avatar
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    Based on the numbers of members here who simply enjoy crossdressing, I agree that it is NOT synonymous with transgenderism.
    Some folk enjoy wearing the whole regalia. Some fixate on certain types of apparel and others on certain brands of certain apparel.
    And still others are somewhere on the path of transition.

    Just because someone finds pantyhose comfy, or gets an erotic thrill from them, does not mean they want to be (or are) women.
    Before you can love another, you must first like yourself

    I Aim To Misbehave

    Labels belong on BOXES, not PEOPLE!

  6. #6
    TrueNorth Strong & Fierce Princess Chantal's Avatar
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    Doesn’t matter if I define the two terms or not, the meanings will be debated upon. Hopefully the omittance of my definition of the terms would not ignite the fire as it seems to do when people do define the terms
    Last edited by Princess Chantal; 03-28-2019 at 05:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Gold Member Read only Rachael Leigh's Avatar
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    I would say off hand no someone who just enjoys wearing ladies clothing for just pure enjoyment of getting dressed up is
    not TG, by that it does not effect their lives in such ways where if they don’t do it for months their good and life goes on.
    Me being non binary I’ve been accused of just being a CD and not on the TG spectrum. However for me I don’t just go to
    work or out in the world wearing my ladies items and makeup because it makes me feel good nor do I think I could just stop for months and be ok. It’s just me it’s a part of me and at this point I don’t believe it’s going away

  8. #8
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    I believe the statement is true because there are some cross dressers who don't feel they are female and have no desire to be female or pass as such. As well there are some people out there who will wear the other fenders clothes and don't identify as even a CD just like the what they have.

  9. #9
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    On the surface I'd say cross dressing is just the act of wearing the clothing of the opposite sex. It does not explain any motivation of why somebody would wear the clothes of the opposite sex. Transgender implies inner feeling. I've always taken the position a person should speak in sentences and paragraphs to describe oneself. If my interest was strictly to wear a woman's nylon panty I would not characterize myself as a cross dresser. I'd say I had a panty fetish. If I was playing a female role in an all boy school and attired as a girl I would not classify myself as a cross dresser. That is a noun. I may be cross dressing which is a verb, an action. Heck, when I found this site I thought it was exclusively for guys who wore women's clothing. Boy, was I wrong. Or, is it, girl, was I wrong. I'll read the responses when they hit more than twenty.

  10. #10
    Banned Spammer
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    Can't wait to see how this thread turns out.

  11. #11
    Resident Polymath MarinaTwelve200's Avatar
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    Cross Dressing Is something SHARED by many different Psychological motivations. TG is simply ONE of them. Just as a Cough is a symptom shared by many different illnesses. We here have different psychological motivations and impulses, often not related---in which we share Crossdressing in common.--for difference reasons. So one "Explanation" does not fit all

  12. #12
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    We members are on this forum and we represent a very similar cross section of humanity as I know here in the USA and from my travels and acquaintances from other countries and places. Therefore, we are similar in some aspects and very different in others as we compare each other. With all these differences in opinions, personalities and beliefs, we have some hot topics where we really discuss and argue our points of views. One perennial favorite to discuss and argue about is labels. Labels are short descriptors about something or someone that someone to quickly understand the topic of conversation.

    The current definitions used on this site follow pretty much the WARPATH/medical definitions that "transgender" is the umbrella descriptor and all other definitions being subset to that. The reasons for definitions is to give a reasonable and logical starting place for those new to the terminology and for those that work with these definitions in the medical, legal and business world. Therefore, until better definitions come along I favor and use the term "transgender" as the umbrella definition. However, when out in the real world every day as myself, Allie - a trans woman, I use the term "trans" or "transgender" as my identifier because I believe that most of those real world people do not fully understand any of the terminology and assume that "trans" refers to a transsexual who is or has transitioned from one gender to another, and it works just fine. If someone has a more detailed question about those identifiers I go into as much detail as I think that they can take to get to the current medical definition, i.e. that I am a MtF "transsexual". The current common use of "transgender" by the general public is based on, in my opinion, the recent past few years where famous transgenders, Caitlyn Jenner, Laverne Fox and others, have been in the news so much that for the general public that describes everyone even if they are not "transsexual".

    That was about the general public. Now, between us members here and with my trans friends I usually use the more detailed sub-definitions from occasional "crossdressers" to full time post-op "transsexuals". I do that because I like the definitions (I also know that they may change over time) and I believe that by using the site's definitions it can help over the long term to bring more cohesives threads and less bickering over definitions, which is usually the case when somehow labels get into a thread. When I use "transgender" I usually use "umbrella term" after it in my posts here. I do not do not argue that everyone should follow these definitions, because I know that we are a mixed bunch of people and we will discuss and argue those definitions.

    These are the definitions I use and the why I use them. I hope that provides good input to what you want out of this thread.

  13. #13
    Carole carhill2mn's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with the statement. The word "synonymous" would be too strong when comparing cross-dressing to being transgendered. There are many aspects to being transgendered other than cross-dressing. Cross-dressing is sometimes put under the umbrella term of transgendered.
    Hugs, Carole

  14. #14
    Junior Member ReneeTD's Avatar
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    Semantically speaking, I'd say it's true. Crossdressing is done for a number of reasons, not all being related to inner gender expression. That said, I suspect that most crossdressing that occurs, is done for precisely that reason.
    Renée Theresa Davidson

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    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Okay. Going by the rules set, I will simply explain that it all depends upon why you're crossdressing. If it's for a thrill with sexual excitement perhaps that's not 'transgender'. But if you have no idea why you want to dress as a female, then it probably IS transgender, as something subconsciously is pulling you towards dressing up as a woman. Thing is, it might be something else entirely. You might simply wish to avoid something that you associate with being male, and dress up as a female to avoid thinking about or acting on that. You'll see a lot of folks referring to that as the 'failed man' or 'failed woman' hypothesis, and automatically assigning that to all of us who crossdress, as each is simply using the temporary self assignment as the opposite sex to escape the role they don't want. While women can get away with this, men cannot, and both men and women tend to chastise us for doing so, assuming that we are just trying to escape our responsibilities. Why it seems that few ever say anything to girls who are tomboys, is that we just don't see it going on, as it's usually only during woman to woman discussions.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  16. #16
    Platinum Member Crissy 107's Avatar
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    I agree cross dressing is not synonymous with being transgender but they are both on the same spectrum just different locations. How many times do we hear one of us that considers himself a cross dresser but it evolves into being transgender. I don’t think it is a big leap from one to the other.
    Crissy

  17. #17
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
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    Cross dressing is something one does.

    Transgender is something one is.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

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    Nice post, I like the concept!

    So I see cd and transgender on same spectrum. Yet within each section of the spectrum there are levels or subsections that make up each section.
    So in the cd section you have it’s own spectrum of fetish to being( wanting to dress act etc) and as well as on tg section has wanting to be to I am, and each subsection can cross with another for instance the cd who wants to dress act etc can end up moving to the tg section. And the tg person thinking they want to be can fall under the cd section.

    So it’s a spectrum divided into sections with each section having its own sections or spectrums that can cross at any point.

    Probably confusing but hopefully y’all get what I’m saying

  19. #19
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    I think transgender is a more umbrella term used in modern language as was transvestite, years ago.

    It is not false but there are some who are transgendered and were not diagnosed that way years ago.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  20. #20
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    It would be better worded, “Cross-dressing is not synonymous with being transsexual", or “Cross-dressing is not synonymous with having gender dysphoria". Not everyone who dresses has issues with their birth gender.

    I miss the days when we were the "TV/TS community". Life was simpler back then.
    Last edited by Vickie_CDTV; 03-29-2019 at 02:56 AM.

  21. #21
    tiptoeing thru the tulips ellbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Chantal View Post
    Everyday I enjoy reading the random page suggestions that Wikipedia offers up daily. Today it was the word “cross-dressing”. As I read it, the sentence that struck me as interesting was “Cross-dressing is not synonymous with being transgender.”
    If you go to Wikipedia and read the preceding sentence...

    "The term cross-dressing refers to an action or a behavior, without attributing or implying any specific causes or motives for that behavior."

    [Bolded mine]

    ...Then where they're coming from starts to make a bit more sense.


    Furthermore, the definition of the word "crossdressing" (from Merriam-Webster) "the wearing of clothes designed for the opposite sex", certainly helps to put things into context, as well.


    Example? Okay, say a guy is away from home, perhaps at his sister's house or something. Something happens to the clothes he's wearing (his only readily-available clothes, mind you)... I dunno, got drenched in an unexpected downpour, tripped & fell in some mud, whatever. IOW, they're now currently unwearable in the state they're in. What's he gonna do, sit around naked for an hour or two, as his clothes are in the washer/dryer? Wrap a towel around himself? (For the sake of this argument, his sister lives alone, so he can't borrow his brother-in-law's clothes, or whoever's.)

    Decent chance that his sister would just throw like an old pair of her yoga pants & a t-shirt at him, telling him to put it on. "Oh, just man up, already," she says, squelching his protest. "It's only for an hour or two. Jeez. "

    He complies, albeit grudgingly. And according to our friends at Merriam-Webster, he is now crossdressing.

    Does this also mean he's transgender? Of course not.


    Of course, feel free to switch the roles of the brother & sister. And she is now temporarily wearing *his* clean/dry clothes.

    Once again, according to Merriam-Webster, she is also crossdressing. *GASP!*

    And does this mean she's transgender? Of course not.



    I dunno, but sounds pretty cut-&-dry to me.

  22. #22
    Platinum Blonde member Ressie's Avatar
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    Since synonymous means having the same meaning I agree with that sentence. For starters, Crossdressing is a verb while transgender is an adjective.

    Now, I see two different sets that can intersect but don't have to. One can be transgender without wearing clothes of the opposite sex. And one can also wear cloths of the opposite sex without being transgender. The two tend to go together but don't have to.
    "You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder

  23. #23
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ressie View Post
    Since synonymous means having the same meaning I agree with that sentence. For starters, Crossdressing is a verb while transgender is an adjective.

    One can be transgender without wearing clothes of the opposite sex. And one can also wear cloths of the opposite sex without being transgender.
    "Clothing normally associated with a different gender" may be a better way to put it...
    It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !

  24. #24
    Platinum Member alwayshave's Avatar
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    I don't think crossdressing is synonymous with being transgender. I'm a crossdresser. While crossdressing may be on the transgender spectrum, I don't feel that I was born the wrong gender such that I must change it. I am happy just periodically dressing.
    Please call me Jamie, I always_have crossdressed, I always will, "alwayshave".

  25. #25
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Oh, gawd. Here we go again...
    This thread has already gone off the rails because, all to commonly, people conflate opinion with fact. We are all entitled to our opinion, we are not entitled to our own facts.

    Fact: The academic and professional communities who deal in transgender issues have, by and large, come to use "transgender" (no "ed") as an umbrella term to cover all of us. It's a lot easier to say than, "crossdressers, gender non-conforming, bigender, non-binary, gender fluid, transsexual, etc."
    Fact: Some people choose not to follow the conventions established by those whose business it is to understand us.
    Fact: The failure to agree upon a common lexicon often leads to confusion and misunderstanding.
    Calling bigotry an "opinion" is like calling arsenic a "flavor".

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