Feminine / female feelings

[Jenny22]

In response to the 'attraction feelings' post. Ressie commented, "I don't know what feminine feels like since I'm not a woman." Hmmmm. I propose that any type of M2F trans person CAN feel feminine due to the excitement of a special moment or that tingling feeling you get from something feminine that really pleased you.

What might yours be?

For me, my nails and first ever real shopping outing en femme yesterday made me feel very feminine... Very!

[docrobbysherry]

I haven't a clue what women, cats, or whales feel like.

But, I KNOW what women look like and I have mirrors! So, I usually go for appearance over feelings. I'm a man after all?

[Tracii G]

Your first outing is a milestone but don't read too much in to it.
You are projecting what you think a woman feels like but there is no way you will ever know.
You are free to enjoy being out and about I know I enjoy it.

[April Rose]

I bet if you asked a hundred different women what "feminine" feels like, you would get a hundred different answers.

[RADER]

I have to go with Sherry on this. I have been a man for over 72 years now; and just because I like to
wear Woman's clothes, does not make me a Woman. I just appear to look a little like one. I feel that
by wearing Panties, Bra, a Dress, I can at least find out what it feels like to a woman to wear there
clothes. I know that being in the closet does not give me much to go on, but I at can relate to does that
do get all dressed up and go out. I just wish I could try it some day myself.
Rader

[Macey]

By that same token, how could I truly say what a 'man' feels like? I can only say what *I* feel like.

[Peggie Lee]

Being intersex I’ve learned that the some but not all feelings of men and women are hormonal driven, at 13 I was on Testosterone, it change how I would react to people and situations as typical male and when I was off HRT I would change back. I’m now on estrogen and feel more feminine than ever before.

[SaraLin]

You are projecting what you think a woman feels like but there is no way you will ever know.

I'd argue differently.

I've had flashbacks to prior lives and quite clearly remember what it felt like. I've felt everything from the pain and desperation of losing children to disease, to the forbidden joy of making love (first time) on a hillside - on a gentle spring day. But though it seems rather mundane, one of the clearest "memories" was the excitement and simple joy of knowing that my new husband was coming home from work soon. It's hard to put into words, but it was definitely a "feminine" - or at least female feeling.

Of course, feel free to discount my experiences and call them all fantasy, delusion, or whatever you like. It doesn't bother me.

[Crissy 107]

SaraLin, That puts an interesting spin on this thread.

[SaraLin]

SaraLin, That puts an interesting spin on this thread.

thanks, I try

Seriously though - while it's hard to explain - what convinced me it wasn't just imagination was the different mindset. Here's my best effort at describing that difference..

(keep in mind that these 'memories' are all from older days and attitudes have changed)
my "feminine" memories are best described as: <my> identity was defined through my relationship with others (boyfriend, children, husband, etc) They were my life.
My current lifetime seems best described this way: my identity is defined through my ability to contribute (provider, fix things, kill bugs, etc.)
Of course, my "gender issues" tend to skew things. For example - you'll notice that stereotypical traits like leadership or dominance aren't on my ID list.

[Rayleen]

The way I see it is that there is as many genders as there are people, so everyone are unique in their behavior and feelings.

[Lana Mae]

This is a very touchy subject here! I think a man can feel feminine but not female! Experiences such as pregnancy and child birth are beyond men as is that time of the month! I have felt that "tingling" feeling at times also! It has been as simple as a certain body position when I threw away a piece of trash or looking down at my polished toes! I asked my therapist about this! Her reaction was sure why not! She of course agrees that giving birth, etc are not something we can experience! Feeling feminine and feeling like a female are not the same thing! I know I will probably catch a lot of flack but so be it! That will not change my opinion! Hugs Lana Mae

[Aunt Kelly]

I propose that any type of M2F trans person CAN feel feminine due to the excitement of a special moment or that tingling feeling you get from something feminine that really pleased you.

Women don't get feminine feelings from "things" or "moments". I don't dispute that many of us in the TG community get some kind of feeling from this or that stimulus, but it strikes me as more than a bit of a stretch to say that "That's what women feel like."

[Tracii G]

I agree Kelly To me its the old projection thing that CDs do sometimes.
When I hear a CD say "this piece of clothing makes me feel girly" I think how would they know?

[Michellebej]

I spent twelve years, in total, as an interviewer. Or what used to be called an interrogator. Both in a law enforcement setting and a military one. I have interviewed women from North, South and Central America. Africa, Asia, and Europe. There are cultural differences; to be sure. However; women, typically, do think in different ways than your average man does. Occasionally you meet men whose thought patterns are feminine and vice versa. There is a reason that the book "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus" sold so well.

While there is a spectrum in the way that men and women think, there is also a recognized typical response. When going into an interview you will typically have one set of rules and responses for men and another for women. Yes; you have to adjust based on the individual. However; the vast majority of people fall into the male and female "thought patterns" categories.

Can a man feel like a woman? Sure. I've seen in a professional capacity. I have had to shift my "patter" from what i would typically use with one sex to a person of the opposite sex. Not very often mind you, but enough to know it happens.

Womens brains ARE different from mens; in a physical sense. Ask anybody with anatomy training. It is fair to assume that these physical difference have a bearing on how the brain functions. Where then are those people who are born male, yet have a female brain? And vice versa. I suspect that this is the foundation to those who identify as trans sexual. Rather than as a crossdresser. It may well be why most crossdressers don't understand most ts people.

[Aunt Kelly]

Yes, Michelle. There is some clinical evidence (though far from conclusive or complete) that TS brains are more like those of their cis counterparts. It's an interesting avenue for research that will, I suspect, be largely unexplored because of the scarcity of sample subjects. Anyway, if we proceed with that assumption, that the TS subject already "feels feminine", innately. For us, it's not about the clothes, or the hair, or the makeup as a stimulus, the way it is for so many crossdressers. The responses in this thread would seem to indicate that, as a group, they do indeed respond to those stimuli, but I'd call it that response something other than "feeling like a girl".

[NancySue]

I’m not sure what defines “feminine feelings”, but the inner tingling/butterflies I experience is a definite sign that I need/want to dress, beginning with any form of nylon stockings. After slipping on my hose, the tingling increases and there’s no turning back. When dressed, I see myself in my full length mirror. I look for adjustments, if any...a smile completes the journey and I still can feel the butterflies. I’ve asked my wife if she feels any special feelings when dressing. She said..dressing daily...no, but when dressing for a special occasion and everything falls in place, she has positive feelings. I asked if she would describe her feelings as being feminine. She said....yes. My conclusion is...yes, because my feelings and hers seem to be similar, when I’m dressed, I’m experiencing my form of femininity....which is very enjoyable.

[phili]

Females are assigned and taught to be feminine, and their feeling that it is natural for them and pleasure in it varies, just like the corresponding experiences of males taught to be men. So even though 'feminine' is often thought of as what females are and do, it is more accurate to define it as one pole of the human character spectrum. For example, receptive v assertive, listening compassionately vs exhorting , etc.

CDs are enjoying what females often enjoy, and often go to lengths to conform our body appearance to that of females, as a way of heightening the experience of femininity. With or without that, we can experience a lot of what females experience, and have very similar feelings. That's a wonderful outcome. If we don't assume others are claiming to be exactly like a female, the need for these arguments goes away.

Let's all enjoy our expressions of femininity!

A lot of the things CDs like that females wear and do are things that are meant to frame the female body as sexually attractive, and that cause confuses the interpretation of our CDing in the minds of observers, and the rejection. It is only when they also separate feminine from female that the dilemma is resolved.

[BTWimRobin]

My wife and I have been talking more openly lately and this came up in conversation yesterday. She said that if you truly want to feel feminine you need look inside yourself because it comes from the heart. It's the nurturing, loving, caring, all inclusive feelings that women have. Being feminine to her has nothing to do with what society and the media dictate femininity to be. It has nothing to do with the clothes, shoes and makeup.

She went on to say if my goal is to express my feminine side, I already do it because I express those internal characteristics in my normal everyday activities. The feelings experienced by crossdressing are completely different from really feeling feminine on the inside. To her clothes are just clothes while to me they represent an experience.

Just my YMMV

[Aunt Kelly]

This! While not every woman exhibits the traits your wife lists, and some genetic makes do, a combination of socialization and instinct, it's fair to call those common feminine feelings. It is even more noteworthy that these things have nothing to do with trappings.

[GretchenM]

Wow, what a wonderful thread. And such wonderful responses. The fact is nobody really knows what someone else feels. However, there is a basis for feeling masculine or feminine, but the foundation is very deep and subconscious. In neurology, it has been known for some time that our conscious minds only get the final results from calculations that occur in our subconscious mind. In effect, the prefrontal cortex is the implementer of what the rest of the brain figures out, but we are not aware of all that went on to make those decisions. Thus, they say there is no such thing as a conscious decision; there are only conscious actions that result from subconsciously created decisions.

In behavior genetics, the first principle is that all behavior is ultimately rooted in genetics. But the rules of behavior that behavior are rooted in genetics are modified by experience and choices that create a behavior that is consistent with what the brain calculates is appropriate. If it is not appropriate we have a conscious feeling that we have done something wrong. You feel "dysphoric."

Thus, the typical male and female brain is mostly the same, but has some critical structures that are quite different in typical males and females. Thus they function differently and apparently in a way that allows males and females to create cooperative relationships with different but somewhat overlapping roles. Those roles are the basis of gender behavior differences. However, that is only the foundation; the real important parts are adaptive to circumstances and experiences and memory of what worked before. Thus females, because of female structure in the brain, follow different role rules from those that males follow. Women have richer emotional experiences because their traditional, evolutionary roles were as care givers where emotional sensitivity was critical to survival favored that behavior pattern. Men developed in different pathways that served in their traditional, evolutionary roles as protectors and hunters of food. Those original role definitions are no doubt still present, but in the modern world they tend to be less important than they were in the not so distant past.

However, with over 3,500 genes of the 20,000 or so genes that define us dedicated in some way to gender behavior (i.e. gender identity) errors, even tiny errors, can modify what comes out in the way of behavior. Thus, we see a vast diversity in gender behaviors that is the gender spectrum. A male brain can be configured to produce behaviors that are much like those that females exhibit. But such a brain is not a female brain. Therefore, it cannot produce the same "feelings" that a female brain can, and visa versa. But any deviation from the ideal structure for each sex can produce some feelings that are similar to those experienced by the opposite sex and their brains. So, although a male cannot fully experience what a female feels, a male is perfectly capable of feeling some of what a female feels.

Once those feelings are sensed we adapt our behaviors to fit, to whatever extent produces consistent feedback from the subconscious brain, as to what those feelings expect. Thing is, CD and TG people probably don't experience the complete opposite gender behavior role package. It is mostly just bits and pieces and in some people it is larger bits and pieces than in others. So we get a sub-spectrum in the CD/TG world.

Is all of this true? Well, probably not completely, but this is where the research seems to be headed. In the end it might be rather different as there is still a vast amount not known in detail about what creates gender behaviors that are so well defined between males and females and yet tend to cross-over a great deal in a lot of people. That cross-over process might be increasing in prevalence because there is so little pressure in the evolutionary process to keep roles very defined. Thus the modern world allows much more crossing over than was present in the past. In other words, the genetic behavior in humans is shifting toward a somewhat more psychologically androgynous pattern and away from a pattern that demanded more defined roles. Time will tell.

So this is my contribution that has resulted from 6 1/2 years of reading and studying the scientific literature and fitting it together in a fashion that satisfies my biologist mind as well as my own gender role reconciliation. Your mileage may vary. It is the nature of the beast. The answers are coming, but it might be awhile, even quite awhile. Each little discovery though provides more clarity in where this behavior comes from.

[Sara Jessica]

There are some great responses here. Gretchen went above and beyond and I'm really intrigued by the past lives angle.

That said, I think there is in fact a lot of projection that goes on. Heck, if a Shania Twain song can make one feel like a woman, then all bets are off. Thing is, I've been lucky to have experienced this holy grail. I call these "moments of being" and it has little to do with wearing a particular piece of clothing, makeup, etc. Instead, it is where the stars aligned in my presentation, time, place, weather, my own mental state, and gosh knows what else because it has been so long since I've felt such a moment. One thing I know for certain, the root of this feeling is peace above all else. Peace of mind. Alignment of mind, body and spirit.

I've experienced this alone and also with friends. It is real and it is sublime. I only wish it were easier to recreate and sustain.

[JenniferMBlack]

I get where the I feel like a woman or i feel feminine comes from. There is deffinatly a change in mood and feeling when I am dressed. As it has been said i know i am not a woman so i cant say i feel like a women. However i do think saying I feel more feminine fits.

[Stephanie47]

Time to get into the deep end of the pool. I can only attest to the feeling wearing women's clothing brings to me. It's a feeling of peace and tranquility. Maybe I am different. I do not sit around and gush over makeup and nail polish. I don't know any women who do sit around and gush. I do see women who IMHO waste too much time and money perfecting claws with all sorts of decorations on their finger tips. Is that feminine? My wife does not bother with nail polish. I've never in almost fifty years seen her put nail polish on her toenails. I cannot remember the last time she wore polish on her fingernails. Her use of makeup has been limited to lip gloss. Most of the time she has no lip gloss. Perhaps males ascribe attributes to femininity based on a male mindset. Dare to ask your wife or girlfriend how she feels when she is having her period? Feminine? Or when she goes through labor pains?

What is masculinity? Dragging knuckles along the ground and bashing a woman's head with a club and dragging her back to the cave? Thinking women are no more than sexual gratification objects? Over the years/decades I've done many things and probably more than others that are ascribed to be part of a masculine role. I do not recall feeling "like a man" when I did them.

The best I can relate to the OP question is I like to believe, if I was a woman, this is what I would wear and how I would appear. It has nothing to do with feeling feminine.

[ReineD]

I grew up in the 60s and 70s, an era that was just coming out of the wide gender inequality of the late 40s and 50s, when men took their jobs back in manufacturing plants after WWII while women returned to the home, wore dresses and made the baby boomer generation. These remnant gender role attitudes were present in my youth and at that time, I would have said that "feeling feminine" meant feeling protected and taken care of by a man. I wouldn't have characterized "feeling feminine" based on what I was wearing, since I would have felt that way whether I was wearing a dress or blue jeans, wearing or not wearing makeup.

No more. lol

I've grown up since then, had a career, raised a family, and got a divorce. I learned how to live without a man's finances and physical protection. I dare say that modern young women (most of whom work even after having kids), also can survive well on their own compared to the women of the 1950s. The world has changed. The wide gender gap that existed in my youth is no longer there. So terms like "feeling feminine" and "feeling masculine" I think only come up on websites such as this one. Most people not members here just "feel as themselves".

I always feel the same, no matter what I wear. I do feel a gender difference mostly when I want to accomplish a physical task that is beyond my physical strength and need someone stronger (usually a male) to help me. But, I don't engage in these tasks often. And needing help does not make me feel more feminine, it just makes me feel as if I should work out more so I can do more for myself. lol

So I suspect that "feeling feminine" for many members here means feeling wonderful when wearing makeup and skirts, which I suspect crossdressers enjoy much more than GGs. I can guarantee that most GGs don't feel that way when they wear makeup or skirts. For us, wearing makeup and skirt is utilitarian and getting dressed up feels the same as any guy who gets dressed up for one occasion or another. Some people love looking magazine-worthy, while some people can't wait to get out of the constrained clothing (dresses & hose or suits and ties) and get back to their comfy clothes. Feeling feminine or masculine doesn't come into it.