Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 61

Thread: What is a Transsexual???

  1. #1
    Member Paula DAngelo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    229

    What is a Transsexual???

    In the "Male to Female Crossdressing" sub forum a member made a statement about what it takes to be considered a transsexual. This statement while phrased as an opinion went against the forum definition, could be taken as insulting, and by its very nature would erase a multitude of people from being considered transsexual. was being made by some one whose very statement would mean that what it takes to be transsexual was being defined by a non-transsexual. When called out on their statement they defended it by saying something along the lines of I'm out all the time and talk and interact with Transsexual people all the time and this is a common feeling in the area in which they live.

    Maybe I'm wrong in what I think the transsexual community believes and this member is correct, so I'm asking for any members that consider themselves transsexual, what does it take to be considered transsexual (I'm not asking for a text book type definition, I'm asking for your opinion).

    Are Pre-op people transsexual?
    Are Non-op people transsexual?
    Is Post-op required to be transsexual?

    What do you feel is required to be considered transsexual?

  2. #2
    Country Gal.... Megan G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Southern Ontario
    Posts
    488
    This is just my unpopular opinion and is based on only my (and my CIS friends) opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paula DAngelo View Post
    Are Pre-op people transsexual?
    If they are living Full time as women and legally changed their name and sex (where possible) on government id’s....yes they are TS

    Quote Originally Posted by Paula DAngelo View Post
    Are Non-op people transsexual?
    Same as above but to repeat....If they are living Full time as women and legally changed their name and sex (where possible) on government Id’s.... yes they are TS


    Quote Originally Posted by Paula DAngelo View Post
    Is Post-op required to be transsexual?
    No


    So that may bring you to ask what do i call a post op?

    Wait for it....

    A man or a woman, depending on their sex....

  3. #3
    Gold Member Lana Mae's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    7,316
    A lot has to do with mind set! Dressed 24/7 but for whatever reasons can not afford or get on Ht or have the surgeries! Can not change ID's for whatever reason! Frustrating as Hell! But...if the mind set is there then are they or not? I believe if all attempts have failed and they have really tried and they believe, then they are! Just my opinion for what it is worth! Hugs Lana Mae
    Life is worth living!
    "Foxy lady! You look so good!!" Jimi Hendrix

  4. #4
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Area
    Posts
    11,260
    Well, let's see what I can clarify with my own opinion, this site's definition for a transsexual (TS) based on relatively current medical thinking and the viewpoint of so many transsexuals who have gone before us in the outside world and on this site, which at one time had a very active, opinionated and vociferous TS membership.

    If a serious person declares themself a TS, that person is a TS, until proven otherwise, i.e. mistaken or a fraud. They do not need a medical opinion, though that does help the undecided sometimes, to have advanced beyond that opinion, no surgeries, no hormones and no requirement for living full time, and not a so called full time with or without weekends off!

    A pre-op TS would be one that has not yet had any surgeries, whether due to medical, logistics or some other reason. This is probably used when one states that they want some surgeries but have not yet had any. This term is not really used that much by most of us. They are still TS.

    A non-op TS is similar a pre-op one who may have decided to live their life with no surgeries. Now, actually this term does not get much use and I may be a little off in my description. However, the key here is that this person is still TS.

    A post-op TS is one who has had one or more gender confirming surgeries, which could include an orchiectomy, breast augmentation, some type of bottom surgery, facial feminization surgery, or something else. Facial hair removal is not surgery. A person does not need to do more than one to be post-op. The term is used commonly to refer to post-op bottom surgery, but in my opinion and since the term in itself is not specific, it could apply to any of these procedures.

    Also, having one or more gender confirming surgeries does not make anyone more TS than someone who has not had them. This is no contest. We are who we are.

    Teresa, according to you, you are basing your declarations based on your conversations and understanding of what others meant in your social group, formal or informal, one on ones. I am basing my definitions on all my conversations with my extensive trans network of friends, this site, my readings and the medical definitions used by most.

    People can define themselves anyway they want, but to be accurate, to be consistent, to be in tune with current medical and community thinking, please follow the site's definitions of TS. On this there should be no debate. Now, if you want to go out and debate how the site defines CD and NB, when one is a crossdresser and when not, fine, have at it.

    I hope this helps the OP and others.

  5. #5
    Member Mirya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    412
    Gender has to do with what's in your brain - your identity. Sex has to do with your biology and sexual organs. (we use sex to refer to sexual intercourse, for example)

    A transgender person is someone whose identity crosses to the other side for gender.
    A transsexual is someone who crosses to the other side with regard to their sexual organs.

    That's kind of the way the words break down, literally.

    In my view, a pre-op person who is planning on SRS is transsexual. A post-op person is also transsexual. A pre-op person who is not planning on SRS is not a transsexual. A non-op person is not a transsexual. Those are my opinions based on the literal meanings of the word.

    I still consider non-op, full-time, trans women as women. I definitely have no problems addressing part-time CD's with female names and female pronouns. And when I go to TG support groups, I even address a fully male-presenting CD by their feminine name and female pronouns, if that is what they ask for. I'm ok with that.

    But if we want to conflate transgender and transsexual and make them basically mean the same thing, I don't see the point of even having two different words. Why not just get rid of the word transsexual altogether? (actually it's happening already with the younger generation)
    Last edited by Mirya; 05-06-2019 at 04:28 PM. Reason: edit: formatting and bold type for clarity

  6. #6
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Area
    Posts
    11,260
    Myra,

    This site defines and uses the word Transgender as an umbrella term. All of us fit somewhere under it. So, transgender is NOT transsexual per the site. Though trans or transgender is used by us and the general public as a shorthand description, SOMETIMES, to define a transsexual. That is because even though we more or less understand the site's meaning, and we discuss the terms and what they mean to us, the general public can only rely on the limited information that they get from the media, meaning they do not usually get into deep conversation about the basics, including definitions, of all this.

    I have no problem if you want to define a goose as a duck, but you would be incorrect if you did that. The same goes for your incorrect definition that a pre-op person who is not planning on SRS is not a transsexual. Surgeries do not make the definition of a transsexual person. It is defined as that persons true belief and who they are.

    For a better understanding of where you might be coming from. How do you self identify and please include a detailed description of that identity please. Thanks ahead of time.

    There were more than one TS person here in the past that stated that one had to suffer and to have had GRS bottom surgery to be in the TS club. That debate never lasted long as other members clearly and easily debunked that myth.

    Again believe what you want, but understand that your definitions may be wrong.

  7. #7
    Member Mirya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    412
    Different people have different definitions of what 'transsexual' means. Different websites have different definitions of what transsexual means. My opinion differs from yours, and that's okay. What IS wrong is to berate me for being wrong, when I simply have a difference of opinion.

  8. #8
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Area
    Posts
    11,260
    Sorry Myra. It was not my intent to berate you.

  9. #9
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Greater Houston
    Posts
    2,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula DAngelo View Post
    In the "Male to Female Crossdressing" sub forum a member made a statement about what it takes to be considered a transsexual. This statement while phrased as an opinion went against the forum definition, could be taken as insulting, and by its very nature would erase a multitude of people from being considered transsexual...

    ...What do you feel is required to be considered transsexual?
    Paula,
    Opinions absolutely do not serve us when answering the question "What is a transsexual?", so why ask for them? This is not about "feelings". The goal should be to arm the person asking the question with an authoritative response, so that he or she may then participate in informed discourse using an agreed upon lexicon so that there is no confusion or ambiguity.

    The definition of the term "transsexual" is unambiguous. Please see:



    While they all word it slightly differently, the "Clinical Information" section of the 2019 ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code F64.0 is the most straightforward:
    "Severe gender dysphoria, coupled with a persistent desire for the physical characteristics and social roles that connote the opposite biological sex.

    To wit, the definition is not a matter of opinion. It is the presence of gender dysphoria that defines the condition. There is no mention of any surgical procedure, or lack thereof, other than to note them as possible treatments for gender dysphoria.

    I am TS because I have severe gender dysphoria. I resent the ill-informed suggestion that I am not, because of what treatment I have, or have not, had. I have friends whom I'm sure would bristle at the suggestion that their non-op status made them something less-than. That kind of comment is extremely insensitive. Period. Defending such an insult as "just my opinion" makes it no less so.

    Myra,
    If you try to suggest that a different definition is defensible because it's "my opinion", prepare to be berated. No, not for having an opinion, but for suggesting that a falsehood is fact because you "have a right to your opinion."

    To Theresa,
    I accept your apology.

    AllieSF has put it most succinctly...
    People can define themselves anyway they want, but to be accurate, to be consistent, to be in tune with current medical and community thinking, please follow the site's definitions of TS. On this there should be no debate.
    (emphasis mine)
    Well, somebody has to make up that base of the bell curve that defines "normal".
    https://groups.io/g/gno-houston

  10. #10
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Greater Houston
    Posts
    2,026
    I did not say that, nor do I believe that there is nothing left to discuss, but I still insist that your "opinion" that the term means something other than that meaning upon which reasonable people agree, is counterproductive nonsense; insensitive and hurtful counterproductive nonsense.
    Well, somebody has to make up that base of the bell curve that defines "normal".
    https://groups.io/g/gno-houston

  11. #11
    Member Paula DAngelo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    229
    To those that have replied, and all those that may still reply, please read and try to understand my original post.

    I am not asking for the definition of what a transsexual is, I know what the "text book" definition is. I am asking for people in this community to give their opinion of what they consider it takes to be considered a transsexual. No response is wrong, as I have specifically asked for and wish to receive opinions. In other words stop the bickering about what someone says.

    The reason I even made the original post is I wanted to see how the members of the transsexual community, of which I am a member, view the community in large. In other words how we view/define ourselves, regardless of how the world in general view/define us.

    Also please note that I have asked that only members who consider themselves part of this community respond. I have already requested several responses to be removed because of this.
    Last edited by Paula DAngelo; 05-07-2019 at 10:15 AM.

  12. #12
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,530
    I could write a book..
    The Story of My Opinion.

    One day i said my opinion...the next day somebody told me they disagreed with my opinion... I told them that they were jerks and I didnt ask for their opinion or their disagreement...I told them again my opinion and added personal comments and used my mind reading skills to explain to them why they were wrong and why they dared disagree with me... the next day they complained that i didnt read their post and repeated their opinion about my opinion I quickly responded that they didnt read my post. I called them bad names and then I restated my opinion in different words.. Soon other people stated their opinions about my opinion and each others opinions. Some people took the time to pull out every sentence and respond with pithy quotes like "oh really" and "ummmm.... no". In the end the moderator read us all the rules of the forum and a little teeny lock symbol was placed next to my opinion. Months later, I read somebody elses opinion, and I told them their opinion was wrong.........................................
    I am real

  13. #13
    Member Mirya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly View Post
    The definition of the term "transsexual" is unambiguous. Please see:
    I disagree. The definition is actually very ambiguous, and probably intentionally so. Much of it is open to interpretation (i.e. open to opinions!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly View Post
    While they all word it slightly differently, the "Clinical Information" section of the 2019 ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code F64.0 is the most straightforward:
    "Severe gender dysphoria, coupled with a persistent desire for the physical characteristics and social roles that connote the opposite biological sex.
    I don't think that definition is straightforward at all. What exactly are female "physical characteristics'? How many "physical characteristics" are needed to qualify? Is it enough to have breasts? Long hair? Or both? Or more? It's so ambiguous! And what exactly are "social roles"? Again, the wording is vague, and open to interpretation.

  14. #14
    Member Sara Olivia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Victoria, British Columbia
    Posts
    138
    As I understand it, what makes a person transsexual is the innate knowledge that your physical body does not align with who you are on the inside. Whether you transition or live your entire life in your biological body, you are transsexual. A crossdresser on the other hand is someone who dresses in clothing of the opposite gender because they derive sexual pleasure from it. They do not innately feel like they are in the wrong body. They are quite comfortable in their biological bodies and would not want to live fulltime as the opposite gender.

  15. #15
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Greater Houston
    Posts
    2,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirya View Post
    I don't think that definition is straightforward at all. What exactly are female "physical characteristics'? How many "physical characteristics" are needed to qualify? Is it enough to have breasts? Long hair? Or both? Or more? It's so ambiguous! And what exactly are "social roles"? Again, the wording is vague, and open to interpretation.
    Wow... That is perhaps the most tortured rationale I have ever read on this forum. You have gone to extraordinary lengths in your attempt to defend an untenable position.

    Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that the set of physical characteristics which are uniquely female, you know, the ones that are discussed constantly in this part of the forum, is an ambiguous list? How dare you even suggest that those things that so many of us will move heaven and earth to acquire (or rid ourselves of), through years of painful, dangerous and expensive medical treatment, are so insignificant that they can be equated with ...long hair. Oh... my... gawd. Really? Such a position is stunning in it's deliberate ignorance of plainly available evidence, in the literature and right here in this section and the other TS sections.

    Frankly, I remain baffled by this need to ambiguate (yes, that's really a word) things which are patently unambiguous. Why is it that some insist that it is OK to state that black is white, or that water is dry, as long as it is qualified as "my opinion"?
    Well, somebody has to make up that base of the bell curve that defines "normal".
    https://groups.io/g/gno-houston

  16. #16
    Member Mirya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    412
    I’m not really interested in having a discussion with someone who is going to keep resorting to personal attacks and hyperbole. I’ve stated my interpretation of the definition as a TS woman who has had HRT, FFS, SRS, and BA. Your definition is just as valid as mine too, if that’s how you see things based on your experience.

  17. #17
    . Aprilrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,745
    Quote Originally Posted by AllieSF View Post
    this site, which at one time had a very active, opinionated and vociferous TS membership.
    I feel like Archie Bunker, "Those were the days"

    So wait? There's a trans community? Why am I just now hearing about this!!!!

    Well since you asked...............

    MY OPINION IS irrelevant as is yours, (ambiguous) as is clearly spelled out in the original post.

    Someone, not TS, pontificates about what they think I'm am and whether or not I qualify to be me.
    The real bitch of it is my eyes are turning yellow waiting for the jury to decide which bathroom I get to use!
    Last edited by Aprilrain; 05-08-2019 at 05:38 AM. Reason: spelling

  18. #18
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,530
    One thing that makes being TS hard is that one component of the gender dysphoria is the idea that your innate sense of gender is not reflected back at you.

    In the real world. There is a concept of “you just know”.
    Your gender is reflected back or it isn’t.

    And you know what it means to be you with no words necessary

    And you especially know what it’s like to not be you or to have others not accept you.

    And the follow on to that for people that question. Or wonder about what is a transsexual is that I don’t think I can use words very well to answer that question.
    I am real

  19. #19
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Area
    Posts
    11,260
    "Your definition is just as valid as mine too, if that’s how you see things based on your experience."

    Her definition, as well as mine, as well as this site's, as well as the TS community with some minor exceptions, as well as the vast medical community are all the same. Yes, you have a right to your opinion, even though it is totally wrong with no more back up defense than "this is my opinion". Provide some medical, scholarly, majority information that your opinion is even close to being valid. You continue to refuse to do that. You also refuse to state where you are in the Transgender Spectrum as defined by this site. That could help better understand where you are coming from. You may like to debate on your terms, but when you open up a big can of worms in this section, please defend with data your invalid opinion as to what is a transsexual.

    April,

    "Those were the days!" Yes, we were there, me as a bystander, and unbeknownst to me a future member, and you as an active member. There is a trans community, which is an interesting place to be. Kind of like being a member of the human race with all its varieties and pretty colors. I love it.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Devi SM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Riverside, CA near, Corona, Los Angeles.
    Posts
    1,991
    I honestly think that a definition about transexual or trasge de by scientists, doctors, psiquiatrist or any other health professional that is not a trans is not enough accurate.
    I was a year in therapy with a family therapist and I learn a lot as well she learned for me.
    Now my therapist is a trasgender and his support and knowledge is overwhelming. He knows more to approach a therapy and treatment from his own personal experiences than the all knowledge he has as a PhD on sicology.
    At the beginning I went to therapy looking for answers, I never receive them. She help me a lot to find my own answers and definitions, so I think first, if you're not in transition and under HRT your experiences definitions are very subjective, so what I do is read the most, talk, ask and then compare with my own experience to I arrive to my own conclusions.
    Last edited by Devi SM; 05-08-2019 at 04:34 PM.
    See my daily posts and pics on tumblr, just look for @sexyvane,
    At Instagram @nessatrans,

    Facebook, Vanessa Grandy from riverside, california.

  21. #21
    Member KatrinaK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    443
    I was going to skip responding to this, but I decided to weigh in. I'm not joining the argument, but rather I'm going to tell you a short story.

    When I first decided to transition, I posted it here in this exact subsection of cd.com. What was supposed to be one of the most affirming moments of my life, devolved immediately into a semantic argument about the definition of TG label words, led largely by certain person(s) not coincidentally on this thread (don't bother or asking or looking, it was deleted by the mods at my request and I will not single anyone out for the same reason I'm writing this post. They know who they are, or they do this sort of thing so often that they don't remember. Either way, it doesn't matter)

    There was no support. There was no love. There was no congratulations. There was only a brutal picking apart of the words that I used to describe the most affirming moment of my life.

    I was mortified. So much so that I actually decided to leave the forum and spend my time elsewhere where that sort of thing doesn't happen.

    Today, I decided to come back to see how everyone was doing. This was one of the first threads I found.

    So for everyone reading this, let me leave you with this. This "dialogue" is a complete waste of time. These arguments as to "who qualifies as what" do serious damage to people who are at their most emotionally fragile, and at their most vulnerable. I know it did to me, so much so that I took all my transition related conversations elsewhere.

    Ciao Bellas,
    Kat
    Last edited by KatrinaK; 05-09-2019 at 08:46 PM.

  22. #22
    Aspiring Member Eemz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    817
    Thanks for posting Kat. I did notice you disappear but I didn't know why and I really wanted to hear how things are going. I only opened this thread today to see what you had to say, and will be closing it again now. These threads at best are boring and annoying and at worst are just a bunch of people trying to "win" at all costs. The ..anatomy.. measuring that goes on always strikes me as ironic in a trans site.

    > There was no support. There was no love. There was no congratulations

    There's lots and lots of it here for you I'm really sorry it got swamped by nonsense.
    Last edited by Eemz; 05-10-2019 at 06:50 AM.

  23. #23
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Greater Houston
    Posts
    2,026
    Thank you for weighing in, Katrina. It is exactly the kind of contention that you describe that seems to arise every time the "labels" debate appears. What label we choose to assign, or reject, for ourselves should not be a matter of contention. The contention only arises when someone seeks to ignore convention and redefine the labels. Without that convention, a common, agreed-upon lexicon, misunderstanding is inevitable.

    I am TS, according to that conventional definition. I chose that label because it fits. More importantly, it allows me to describe my gender identity in a single word. It is neither more nor less accurate because of the steps I have been able to take to express that identity because this or that form of expression is not part of the conventional definition. Ergo, it is insensitive, to say the least, for someone to insist that the label does not fit because, in their "opinion", other requirements apply.
    Again, thank you for providing perspective based on your unfortunate experience.

  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    353
    " I know it did to me, so much so that I took all my transition related conversations elsewhere. "

    HEAR, HEAR ^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^

  25. #25
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,353
    “Transsexual” - A person with cross-sexed identity who takes concrete, permanent, physical steps to bring their body in line. Hormones, FFS, SRS, Top Surgery, and perhaps other procedures all qualify. Someone who would but can’t (excuses need not apply) are often referred to as TS because the discussion is identity-focused, here at least, but technically are not.

    I think there is a more nuanced conversation about social transition only, sans physical steps, but in my opinion doesn’t obviate cross-sexed identity, as some cross dressers socially transition and still identity as male.

    Kaitlyn - very funny!
    Last edited by LeaP; 05-14-2019 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Clarity in 2nd paragraph. Spelling.
    I am older than I once was,
    And younger than I'll be. ...
    After changes upon changes
    We are more or less the same;
    After changes we are more or less the same.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Check out these other hot web properties:
Catholic Personals | Jewish Personals | Millionaire Personals | Unsigned Artists | Crossdressing Relationship
BBW Personals | Latino Personals | Black Personals | Crossdresser Chat | Crossdressing QA
Biker Personals | CD Relationship | Crossdressing Dating | FTM Relationship | Dating | TG Relationship


The crossdressing community is one that needs to stick together and continue to be there for each other for whatever one needs.
We are always trying to improve the forum to better serve the crossdresser in all of us.

Browse Crossdressers By State