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Thread: Why The Least Accepted ???

  1. #1
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    Why The Least Accepted ???

    For a male to dress in female clothes this is the least understood and accepted of any of the behaviors that are different from majority male/female heterosexual relationship. Homosexual, bisexual, lesbian sexual, asexual, and others are just accepted or tolerated by society but still not MtF crossdressing. It should be accepted sooner than the others because it is just clothes how someone wants to dress. Unlike the others it does not involve sex between two people. It should be the easiest for folks to accept. Like George Washington a guy likes to wear ruffled and silky shirts just like women today but not O.K. If only society could understand how nice and right it feels for a CD to wear girl clothes, he likes feminity not masculinity and he also (like women) doesn't like violent sports. Why is seeing a guy in girl clothes so repulsive, negative and so bad where some would like to fight and hurt him. Ever see any male to female transformations / makeovers, most go from average guy to beautiful woman. If you wanted to look your best and a CD why wouldn't you choose girl? Why should anyone reject you, after all women put on tons of extras to look their best, what you see in women isn't exactly what you are getting. Just wondering why and I know we are a very small percentage but we hurt no one, why the least accepted?

  2. #2
    Señora Member Robertacd's Avatar
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    Because society values men over women. Men are strong and powerful, men are the providers and protectors, men are the leaders and owners.

    So people stuck in those ancient ways can't understand why a "man" would want to be anything "less than a man".

  3. #3
    Senior Member phili's Avatar
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    To add to that, I think the underlying sociobiology from millions of years of evolution is that males are bigger and stronger as a general rule, and tend to be sexually predatory/competitive-hence other males are needed to ward them off - as well as do all the other necessary things to protect the family whilst the females are limited in range of activity by pregnancy and nursing babies.

    As a woman, I really want there to be men fully attentive to this so I can do what I want to do. I think that is the bottom line. Someone has to be the man.

    I understand this, and I think a compromise solution is a good one. As a male, I learned there is an unspoken bargain- women get to adorn themselves for us men, and we get to enjoy them and dominate them. However, we have to be attentive to their needs enough so we don't have to constantly find new females, and can take pleasure in having kids we know. But all this is hard to do while curtailing our emotions so we can focus on doing the heavy lifting, levee repairs, and go get killed in wars.

    I didn't like the bargain, and I always wanted to adorn myself some of the time, so that when I got killed I would have lived! It is certainly true that the majority of CDs will pick up our job of protector when needed, and so the resistance to letting us crossdress is not justified by the fear. I think we contribute to the problem by acting as if the fear is legitimate and hiding, rather than going out and proving the point by rising to the necessary occasions even when in a dress.
    We are all beautiful...!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jean 103's Avatar
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    I don't think that is true.
    What is your definition?

    I would say that I am accepted the same as the rest.

    The big difference is, with me is easy to see that this is me. With a gay person it is not so obvious.

    I’m out and live in the real world. I have had gay people come up to me, tell me about their live and make the comment that I’m like so brave for being out and not hiding, basically.

    If you are wanting the average GUY to look at a TG person and think she (MTF) is pretty I would like to date her, not going to happen.

    Same GUY, we meet, He is like” Hi Jean how have you been.” This happens all the time, as I have real friends.

    What I have found is it not so much the world, it is me that needs accept all this. I know that this sounds funny but it is true. If I were to bring something like this up with my friends. They would just roll their eyes (mostly GGs), say something like really Jean I don’t see it.

    You see I have become “just Jean” part of a community. I didn’t plan any of this, and I didn’t know that I was doing, it just happened.

  5. #5
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    I tend to agree, it's like why cant men wear dresses in a different guise.

    I tend not to ask why, I just do it. :-)
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  6. #6
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    If you really want to understand why CD'ing is not accepted, then go to those who don't embrace the life style. On this site you are preaching to the choir. Write up a survey and go into several malls, or onto street corners, and get people to fill out your survey. Then you may get a clearer picture as to why CD'ing is not accepted by the general public. Your questions here start to wear thin after awhile. All of the answers that I usually see to your questions are just repeats from the previous questions that you keep on asking. Don't get me wrong, it is good to ask questions, but not just a rehash of the last question, worded differently. The problem is that to expect different results to the same questions is insanity.
    Last edited by Gillian Gigs; 05-29-2019 at 11:38 AM.
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

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    Platinum Member Angie G's Avatar
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  8. #8
    Yeah Ok like whatever Tracii G's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Gillian.
    I think you would need to ask those people not us.
    Survey in a mall is not a bad idea do it in guy mode then in girl mode and see how the answers differ.
    Head Executive Chief of the Dept of Redundancy Dept.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Hogrom's Avatar
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    And what if, instead of asking the same question, you should put this aside and take the courage to step foward ?


    It's important to think. But you need sometimes to put this aside and act. Because if not, you will NEVER be able to do what you want.


    If I didn't act and always wondering the same question, I would never be able to crossdress (almost) whenever I want and towards my friends. Now I can assume freely my life as a man who enjoy sometimes feminines things. I don't mind if my voice is manly. I'm not concerned to have 0 fake boobs. What I do, I do for myself.

    You want the society to think another way about crossdressing ? Then, go outside fully dressed and show you are happy to be a crossdresser. Show them we are no different or no monster. I always get some compliments with this attitude
    Looking like a woman is not a shame and most importantly : We have one life.


    If I'm alone all my life, fine, be that way. At least, I finally "love" myself, which I rarely did in the past.

    Kiss

  10. #10
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Deebra,
    If it were just the clothes I wouldn't be doing it , surely by now you see the deeper needs behind Cding .

    I get more confused by your threads , you tell us you go out and look great in your words but sadly still no pictures and yet you still bring the subject up of all the negatives associated with it .

    To be totally honest I don't get any negative responses .
    The real me ,no going back.

  11. #11
    Member josie_S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracii G View Post
    I have to agree with Gillian.
    I'm with Gillian too. And Tracii, Teresa, Hogrom, Kelly, and Micki...

  12. #12
    Yeah Ok like whatever Tracii G's Avatar
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    It makes me wonder deebra you say you go out dressed for the world to see yet you won't post a pic here out of fear someone you know might see you.Not much logic in that is there?
    It seems you are always complaining about the same thing over and over but don't have the fortitude to fix your situation.
    Blaming others in society for the way things are and you doing nothing to change perceptions.
    Head Executive Chief of the Dept of Redundancy Dept.

  13. #13
    Goddess-In-Training Macey's Avatar
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    Phili is onto it, I think. Gender roles go back as far as the hunter gatherers and a few decades of social revolution doesn't overcome a million years of human evolution so easily. That's the 'bad' news.

    The 'good' news is that human also come in infinite varieties, physically, emotionally, spiritually, expressively, ad infinitum. Not accepted in one group? Perhaps in most groups? Try going to an Eagles game in Philadelphia wearing a Giants jersey, that's downright dangerous! But there are people in this world that can and will understand you. There are romantic interests that will understand you, though they may seem difficult to find. Let the waters become still within yourself, give up the war with the rest of society,and live. Live out loud. Live the best you that you want to be. Compromise when you must, stand firm when you can, and love.

    Love yourself. Love the rest of the world. Remember the innate dignity that you possess that no one can take away from you. Recognize that dignity within every person, even when they themselves have forgotten it.

  14. #14
    Girl about Town Jodie_Lynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deebra View Post
    >>SNIP<< Why is seeing a guy in girl clothes so repulsive, negative and so bad where some would like to fight and hurt him. >>SNIP<<
    NOTE: The following statements are based solely on my thoughts on the matter, over a period of years. I have no clinical data to back up these statements.
    Basically, your guess is as good as mine. Enjoy!

    A - Males who have ANY insecurities about their sexuality will see a TG/CD as a threat, especially if said male became even the littlest bit aroused.
    I have hetero male friends who have almost became violent when a gay man 'hit on them', so the animosity isn't reserved for TG/CD people.

    B - Some males get 'taken in' by extremely beautiful "traps", those young crossdressers who are blessed with slender, petite frames. This feeds into category "A".
    A lot of guys seem to know "a friend of a friend, who knew a guy..." that got 'tricked' into bed by "one of those sheee males", so the prevailing notion is that CD/TG people are out to fool unsuspecting men into having carnal relations.
    Because, as we all know, if you wear panties and a skirt, you must be gay, right?

    C - Since most societies place the male at the very top of the food chain, there is confusion as to why a man would want to 'handicap' himself by presenting as, or (HORRORS!!) actually wanting to BE a female.
    Oddly enough, as much as people try to claim there is no gender bias in the workplace, or society, this tends to highlight the disparity. "Better to be an ineffectual MAN, than a helpless WOMAN!" seems to be the rational behind this thought. Look at the fantasy fiction of "forced feminization". The absolutely worst fate to befall a man or boy would be to be 'forced' into girly clothes and do 'women's work'.

    D - SOME, and I must emphasis "SOME", women may see us as a threat to their territory or their safety.
    This threat could be expressed in many attitudes, from "Those perverts just want to get into the Ladies loo to look up my skirt! or molest my daughter!" to "Oh great, now I not only have to worry about GG competition, but those "girls" too" and everything in between. Add in the confusion of why the "dominant gender" would want to take second place in the pecking order, and you have an idea of why we are misunderstood.

    E - Lack of knowledge, understanding, or exposure to real CD/TG people. Let's face facts; there are many people out there in the world who have no exposure to actual CD/TG people. They get their information from TV, the news, social media, and plain old gossip. People tend to believe what they hear, from trusted sources. Don't confuse them with the facts, they've already made up their minds. "Why, just look at those freaks, pretending to be women on 'Jerry Springer', Ethel, I tell ya, these people are sickos!"


    I have been out and about, locally for a little over 2 and a half years now. The absolute worst experience I have had, in all that time, is being "sir'd" while en femme, twice by sales clerks.

    Everywhere else I have gone, I have met nothing but acceptance, or at least tolerance, by the general public. So Deebra, I yet again fail to see the validity of your claims.
    Perhaps, instead of a general complaint about the unfairness of it all, if you gave some concrete examples of what you are talking about, it might actually prove productive.

    Otherwise, so sorry, I have no tears for your pity party.
    Before you can love another, you must first like yourself

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  15. #15
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deebra View Post
    Why is seeing a guy in girl clothes so repulsive, negative and so bad where some would like to fight and hurt him.
    Because in our societies, males have always been responsible for the protection of everyone in it. Being female was always considered a physically weaker and less likely able to defend the group. So males were the ones to go into battle. Any male who behaved or dress as a female, was considered suspect for not being able to hold up to his end of responsibility, and was shamed for it by everyone else. Other males, knowing that every male child was expected to toe the line and never, ever dress or behave as a female, are often terrified that they, too, might not be the 'all masculine' man, because they have thoughts that they believe aren't in line with being that total masculine man. So they hate that the male who behaves that way even exists, because then he must fear that it, not being totally masculine, might just happen to him, too. So he feels the need to eliminate any other males who don't, in his mind, measure up to what he thinks a man must be.

    Women depend on the men in her society to also live up to the responsibility of protecting the women and children. So seeing a man embracing something that he's not supposed to, to her may indicate that he may also not accept the responsibility to protect her and her children when such a time may come. So women don't like it either.

    There you go. It's not as simple as that all the time, but it is, most of the time.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  16. #16
    Ah-May-Lee
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    I think I lucked out with the path I took, well it seemed to work for me.

    I was a punk when I started out so the clothes didn't change much. Also beng punk we didn't look for acceptance, we kinda despised the suit and tie crowd and didn't need their kindness. People were staring at me and calling me names before I ever wore a dress so nothing changed much in my life when I became a girl. Now, being a goth I guess people think it's part of being goth the way I dress. Maybe I am hiding being a woman within being a goth, that might make things easier, maybe I cheated a bit. Or after many years I just got use to the name calling. But as Phili's post says, one got to interact with people to show them we are normal. Well, I'm not normal but that's another story.
    “Everyone is a moon, and has a dark side which he never shows to anybody.”
    ― Mark Twain

  17. #17
    Resident Polymath MarinaTwelve200's Avatar
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    People still associate CD with HOMOSEXUALITY even though most are not. This likely comes from the "explanation" KIDs are given when they ask what Gay means. "a "gay/Queer" is a boy who thinks he's a girl" ----They get the same thing from their equally ignorant peers, so a male doing anything associated with the opposite sex is automatically deemed "Queer". They grow up never bothering to check it out and many ADULTS STILL subscribe to the kid's definition.---OH, in many cases they now realize that gays are attracted to other guys and have sex with them, but that is just ANOTHER THING Gays do.---- The "want to harm" or "beat up" thing is a factor within certain violent "male subcultures" where being "a man" is very important. They are usually uneducated guys who still subscribe to the kid's definition, so have no clear idea about what "homosexuality" is---And DREAD deep down they might NOT "measure up" to "Manhood " standards.---For many of these guys "how many people you beat up" are "manhood points"----and a supposedly GAY person, like a woman, (who they beat too) is an EASY TARGET---easy manhood points. they make a lot of noise and cussing and attack their victim publicly, so people can se that they are "Real MEN"---so if to say "Look at ME, I am not gay, I HATE them." ---------Yes, sounds silly, but such people exist, and are the biggest threat to TG folks.

  18. #18
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    I have to add another comment to Jodie Lynn's list.

    F- Intolerance towards gays, lesbians, transsexuals and cross dressing men.
    Last edited by char GG; 05-29-2019 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Sorry, rules

  19. #19
    Girl about Town Jodie_Lynn's Avatar
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    Thanks Stephanie, I knew I was forgetting something!
    Before you can love another, you must first like yourself

    I Aim To Misbehave

    Labels belong on BOXES, not PEOPLE!

  20. #20
    Aspiring Member Maid_Marion's Avatar
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
    It may be related to the Uncanny Valley effect. If you aren't close enough to pass it triggers a negative reaction or revulsion.

    I think short guys run into this problem. Which is why they have so much trouble dating.

    I'm 5'3" I been finding that a I appear more feminine, or closer to one of the two binaries, I have a much easier time in social situations.
    My curly hair now falls well below my shoulders. I've exercised my waist down to 25 inches just below the ribs, and I now wear tight and
    colorful tops. Often with layers to stay warm at the office.

    It helps that gays and lesbians in my social circles have been out for at least thirty years.
    Last edited by Maid_Marion; 05-29-2019 at 07:39 PM.

  21. #21
    Yeah Ok like whatever Tracii G's Avatar
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    Has anyone one given a thought that maybe deebra has a homophobic streak running thru her and she has a hard time justifying what she is doing?
    Head Executive Chief of the Dept of Redundancy Dept.

  22. #22
    Girl about Town Jodie_Lynn's Avatar
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    Tracii, the thought has occurred that she is full of self-loathing because what is does is "deviant", and is projecting her self image onto the general populace.

    But I know very little about the OP, except what she indirectly presents via her posts.

    That is the problem with dealing with on-line personae, we can only gauge by what they present.
    Last edited by char GG; 05-29-2019 at 09:24 PM. Reason: See rules
    Before you can love another, you must first like yourself

    I Aim To Misbehave

    Labels belong on BOXES, not PEOPLE!

  23. #23
    Emerging Diva Nikki A.'s Avatar
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    I guess the first question is why worry about what others think. Be yourself and enjoy it and don't worry about society

  24. #24
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    I think Jean's answer has a lot of truth to it. She dresses the way she feels like, and does her thing in a matter-of-fact way that tells the world "This is no big deal". The people who meet her pick up on that vibe and return it in the same No Big Deal way. I think you can only accomplish that if your self-acceptance is total.

    It's the way I try to present. I don't know how effective I am relative to Jean, but I've gotten quite a few compliments from randoms, mostly women, but there have been men as well. The comments are not about how well I pass for a woman, because I'm not trying to, but about my shoes or my outfit and how they think what I'm doing is cool. It gives the kind of lift that makes me want to get out more and more.

  25. #25
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    deebra,
    I wonder if it’s the area you live in? I do not know anything about Virginia Beach.
    I know where Sherlyn and I lived we did not find that at all. But with Sherlyn it was not just clothing it was who she was.
    We kinda just went everywhere.
    So maybe it’s your area?
    Just remember you are not doing anything wrong and hold your head high.
    If you are a Genetic Female (Female at Birth) and would like to join us in the F.A.B. Forum, please follow the link.

    F.A.B. Forum Access

    Sherlyn,My beautiful sweet girl
    You forever and always will be my one and only true love . ❤️

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