Control or Acceptance

[Rhonda Darling]

Deebra:
I have a pretty good eye for these things and think you are totally wrong stating that women wear mens clothing (“We all know women wear male clothes wherever they want.”) Having grown up when there were HUGE catalogs from major retaiers available for me to peruse, and now when there is an infinite number of internet clothing shopping sites to look at — and the ability to make observations in real life — it is clear to me that most women don’t wear “mens” clothing, rather, they wear womens clothing styled after the mens styles of the modern western world. BUT THEY ARE WEARING WOMENS CLOTHING! Example —Very few women put on mens Levies or other heavy denim jeans, with no shape or fit. They don’t shop in the mens department for shirts, underwear, sox, shoes, etc., and they certainly don’t attempt to look like a man.

[Tracii G]

Exactly Rhonda but no matter how many times deebra is told this she chooses to dismiss it.

[Judy-Somthing]

Aren't men suppose to wear uncomfortable clothes and drink whisky that taste like paint thinner?

And God forbid if you color your hair or try to look younger with light makeup!

[JenniferMBlack]

Debra. It is your life live it how you want. If you are not happy with something, change it. No matter how many times you ask the question, the answer is the same. If your woman dosent want you wearing girls clothes we cant convince her with our comments. Your choice is do as she asks or don't. If you two cant be happy together maybe time to move on.

[Stephanie47]

Move to Washington State. Gender expression, i.e., cross dressing, is protected by anti-discrimination laws. I am free to wear what I want, when I want. Of course, my wife may express an opinion which I may or may not follow. We also have "no fault" divorce laws. We all bear the consequences of our actions.

[Teresa]

Deebra,
I often see this question as a little one sided , while I don't entirely agree with women wearing them to feel sexy , they're just clothes to most women . The point is how often does a husband /male patrtner tell their female partner or wife what they can and cannot wear and how much notice would they take ? So what right to they have to tell the man what he can or can't wear . Many men now wear skinny jeans now which can look very effeminate on some !

Yes women do wear male clothes on occasions but no one would consider calling them Cders , it's just a fact of life that never appears to change . My daughter often grabbed one of my sweaters if she felt chilled but couldn't be bothered to fetch her own , I know I couldn't have used the same excuse if I slipped on one of hers or my wife's . They can look cute and we would be told we look stupid !!

[Tracii G]

Teresa I wonder if a man has a spouse that grabs her man's clothing or sweater because she is "cold" for example.
What would happen if the husband said you look stupid wearing that take it off.
Or perhaps with an angry voice " those are mens clothes" whats the matter with you are you gay? do you want to be a man? If you wear that again I am going to tell all your friends you are gay and want to be a man.
See as ridiculous as that sounds thats exactly what some CDers wifes do and the CDer just takes it with his tail between his legs.
OK my rant is over.
Stand up guys and wear what you want.

[abbiedrake]

The problem, Teresa, with what Deebra (and to a lesser extent yourself) argues is that it's a false equivalence.
Women wearing plain shirts and jeans is a far cry from floral dresses, fake boobs, wigs and makeup.
Comfort and practicality drive many of the clothing choices of women. If they were restricted from wearing dresses it wouldn't be top of the agenda of things to rant about. Yet Deebra keeps returning to the unfairness of it.
I would suggest that even for those women who do exercise their clothing options, women's fashion is a two-edged sword. We might lack some of those choices generally unless we're willing to be judged, but that's just it - women are ubiquitously judged on their appearances. And the unfairness of that far outstrips the unfairness of men not having every clothing item in their repertoire.
It's facile to boil things down to moaning about the very surface of any perceived 'injustice'. It smacks of a grass is greener attitude at best. Couching it in terms of rights seems to me downright self-defeating when both genders have far greater injustices to address.

[deebra]

Judy-Something you got it , good post. Teresa you got it too, "what right does a woman have". And Tracii G thread 32 you also make my point. Wimpy little male Cders only know two words, "Yes Dear". Read my post again, it's just two pieces of clothing, panties are not visible, jeans are comfortable and blend, embarrass no one. Get It??? And for the third time the post was not personally about me, It Was A Subject I Wanted Discussed Because Of How Unfair It Was To Many Male CDers.

[Tracii G]

Ok now that this subject is settled finally Miss deebra can you stop bringing it up?

[Jodie_Lynn]

[QUOTE=deebra;4369278 >>SNIP<< And for the third time the post was not personally about me, It Was A Subject I Wanted Discussed Because Of How Unfair It Was To Many Male CDers.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and so?

Of all the cis-women I know, NONE of them have worn men's jeans or pants.
My daughter and my ex-wife have worn my tee shirts, because they are geeky graphic tee's and have no intrinsic 'gender'. My ex has worn my sweatshirts, when she was cold. So fecking what.

But to go on and on and on about how women wear men's clothes is ridiculous and petty.

And whoever told you that life was fair, lied to you.

Get over it. Move on.

[ellbee]

Deebra:
I have a pretty good eye for these things and think you are totally wrong stating that women wear mens clothing (“We all know women wear male clothes wherever they want.”) Having grown up when there were HUGE catalogs from major retaiers available for me to peruse, and now when there is an infinite number of internet clothing shopping sites to look at — and the ability to make observations in real life — it is clear to me that most women don’t wear “mens” clothing, rather, they wear womens clothing styled after the mens styles of the modern western world. BUT THEY ARE WEARING WOMENS CLOTHING! Example —Very few women put on mens Levies or other heavy denim jeans, with no shape or fit. They don’t shop in the mens department for shirts, underwear, sox, shoes, etc., and they certainly don’t attempt to look like a man.

Ugh, with the exception of those very last few words, will people here *please* stop saying this??

This is simply NOT true!!!


In literally another browser/window right now, I'm looking at a rather long thread from another forum about GG's with large/wide feet who buy & wear MEN'S shoes!

Heck, some have even chimed in and, because they have "normal"-sized feet, admit they actually buy & wear shoes from the BOYS' department, because oftentimes they can find something that works, is still decent quality --- but is relatively less expensive than the women's equivalent.


And this is just *one* example... of many!!


Quite a few GG's out there buy for themselves & actually wear -- as part of a "regular" outfit -- clothes from the men's department.

And I'm talking like practically EVERYTHING. Underwear, included.


Will you see your 90-year-old mother/grandmother doing this? Doubtful.
Will you see GG's in their teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, even 50s doing this? Yep.
Will they flat-out tell you to your face? Maybe, maybe not.
Will you be able to tell by looking at their outfit? Maybe, maybe not.
Do they dress in *all* men's clothing, all the time? A few do, but most do not.
Are they trying to "pass" as a guy? Perhaps a few, but definitely not the majority.

These are typically (but not always!) hetero cis-females, at that.


Again, they are walking into a store, intentionally heading over to the *men's* department, checking stuff out & trying it on, buying it -- and wearing it at a later date.

Shirts, t-shirts, sweaters, hoodies, coats/jackets, shorts, pants, underwear, socks, shoes, pajamas, whatever. It doesn't matter. The only real exception I've seen is formal wear (i.e., men's suits & tuxedos)... Though I'm sure there are a few out there.


"But it's on the internet, so it's not real!"

Fine. In the offline world, I've had GF's & GG-friends literally "borrow" & wear *my* GUY-clothes, in front of my own eyes! Like, as part of their daily outfit.


Anyway, we've already been over this. It happens. More often than you think, at that. For all sorts of very valid reasons.

And no, they don't consider it CD'ing (though according to the dictionary, they technically are ). They are just clothes to them.

Get over it.

[docrobbysherry]

Men dressed in fem clothes r crossdressers. Some r trans and some do it for kinky, sexy, stimulating reasons.

Females rarely dress in fem or masculine clothes for any of those reasons!

Whatever 2 people in a relationship do to make it work is none of your, deebra, my, or any of our, business! That includes their dressing, undressing, and everything else!

If u have issues why not say so? If not, why keep trying to stir us up this same nonsense?

[Wifeling GG]

I have never once in all my years shopped for men's clothing unless it was for a man. I worked as a trauma nurse on a helicopter crew- often a very masculine-type attracting job (I'm a very feminine type and they had bets on how long I'd last and I passed 10 years before I had to give it up for my first round with cancer) and we often shared showers after a messy shift and I never saw any one of the women I worked with dress in men's clothing. My little sister is as 'Tom-boy' as you can get and she's never worn men's anything. I have known and do know women from ages 88 to 17 and none that I know have ever worn men's clothing. It's a fantasy. There is a very minute minority of women who express themselves with masculine wear and that's just fine but they are very easily seen. What makes you think tidy whities are more attractive to us than what we already wear? They're more expensive to begin with! Men's clothing is designed for men's body shapes just as women's clothing is designed for women's body shapes as you lot find out and have to accommodate for with padding and shape wear. Just for a lark I just tried on a pair of my husband's jeans and one, they are about 6" too long, for two they are way too low and wide on the waist, and three, they do nothing flattering whatsoever. I have average to narrow feet and men's shoes are definitely out for me. Men's shirts? Gimme a break! The sleeves are too long, the cuffs too wide the tail is too long, the collar is too high.

Men's wear is men's wear because it's designed to fit and flatter the male physique. Women's wear ditto for women.

Now, my ex husband had a grandmother who wore size 9 men's boots from a Sears & Robuck catalogue (she was never in a department store, only shopped mail order catalogues, and bartered and traded with her neighbours) because she worked tobacco until nearly her dying day and knew nothing else because she grew up so poor she got does after her two older brothers had worn them out and went on to do the same thing with her husband. She walked in ill-fitting shoes along plowed rows for so long her feet were flat, wide, arthritic, hard, and callused to the point nothing else would go on them. As a clinician I've known other elderly women who thought their only option for shoes were men's due to the effects of arthritis and/or edema on their feet but they were thrilled when we showed them there were feminine alternatives they were thrilled.

As I said, it's a fantasy.

[deebra]

ellbee thankyou for setting them straight, very true and well said. So sorry some just don't get it.
docrobbysherry, for the forth time it was not about me, it was a subject to be discussed. And a few got the point. I do not have issues, I am comfortable wearing female clothes at home and out. As I have said and ellbee put it so well, women buy and wear everything and men should too. Fairness, Equality, Non-discriminatory.

[Shelly Preston]

Deebra

I know the reason you raise the question is to have a discussion.

Unfortunately you see to ask the same question in different ways which is why people think you have issues.

ellbee makes a good point, but you will find the vast majority of women who wear something designed for a man, is because it fits better. Its for comfort an no other reason.

Only those Who Are FTM generally wear clothes designed for a man.
( not to be confused with clothes which have a masculine look but are designed for women)

[Tracii G]

Thats what I have seen Shelly she asks the same question just worded a different way.
Thats not being very productive just annoyingly repetitive and thats why people get upset with her.
When you answer a question over and over it gets old quickly.

[ReineD]

Why hasn't anyone said anything about the fairness of her wearing male clothes

Women who wear pants aren't wearing male clothes. lol

But to answer your thread, I think Jodie_Lynn in post#2 answered it beautifully. It's between the husband and wife, since everyone and all marriages are different. You want things to be black and white - one rule applies to all, but life is not like that.

If you are single and the situation you described does not apply to you, there really is no sense talking about hypotheticals. The solution will be different depending on the dynamics of each relationship. If on the other hand you do have a partner who gives you a hard time when you want to wear girl jeans, you'll need to work it out with her. I would suggest buying the jeans and not announcing to her the minute you walk in the door that they are girl jeans. Blue jeans all look the same to me, as I'm sure they do to most other people.

[hosekid]

Deebra, here is the cut and dry. We are American. We have freedom. Your wife can be mad and hate what you wear, but the choice is your's alone how you dress. It works the other way too. You have as much say in what your wife wears as she does in what you wear. If she doesn't want to go anywhere with you because of how you are dressed, then 1. you change clothes 2. she doesnt go with you. If you do not like what she wears, then 1. she changes clothes 2. you dont go with her. Would you be comfortable with her going some place if she bound her breasts and wore a fake mustache? Me personally, I would not like my wife to do this, but if that's what she chose, I'd support her 100% in public, although I might tell her I didn't like it in private. It sounds like you have a control problem in your house. Your wife wants to be in control of YOUR emotions/desires. YOU and only YOU have to decide what is right for YOU. Maybe the unfairness she demands is too much and you have to have world war 3 to stand up for yourself. Who knows what is best for you. Maybe you need to be more demanding in how she dresses. If she expects you to dress in a style that is acceptable to her, she should do the same for you. Right?

[Vickie_CDTV]

Yes, because of the way things work, she can. But there is an incredible about of hypocrisy involved. Let a married man tell his wife what she can and can't wear... I guarantee every woman around would call him a a male chauvinist pig and the claws would come out.

[ReineD]

You have as much say in what your wife wears as she does in what you wear.

I'm a GG. If my SO told me that he didn't like this or that outfit on me, you can be sure that I wouldn't wear those outfits when we're out together. This is called "mutual consideration". It is MY choice to consider his preferences as well as my own, for the mutual benefit of our happiness together.

And I dare say this holds true for freedom-loving non-Americans too!

And this works both ways. My SO is NOT a suit & tie person. Not at all. But, I asked that he buy one for my son's fancy wedding and because he loves me, he did. I even picked it, the shirt, the tie, and the fancy shoes out! He went along good-naturedly because he knew how important it was to me to not have him be the only man there wearing a Tshirt and jeans.

The bottom line is, I bought all the clothes in my closet because I obviously liked them all. If my SO doesn't like one outfit, I have plenty more that I can choose from. But ... if my SO went out and bought something completely opposite to what's in my closet, that I would NEVER wear (say a pink, frilly, flouncy little girl dress - I'm past middle-age), and insisted I wear it, I would have the right to say no. Likewise, I would never insist he wear his new suit when we're just going out to dinner.

I'm sure that Deebra has lots of clothes other than girls' jeans that Deebra can choose when they go out together. Still, I think that if Deebra hadn't announced to the wife about having bought jeans in the women's department, the wife would not even have noticed.

[abbiedrake]

Woe is me. I bridle under the yoke of monarchy. I wish I had 'freedom'. 🇬🇧
😜

[deebra]

ReineD I disagree about hypothetical, it a good subject for CD's to discuss, some are wimps to their wives and others might have a little backbone. And I do agree with the rest you said. Here Goes, I do have a S.O., we get along fine. I have a drawer full of panties, another thongs, etc. and 10 pair of girl jeans. Because of my masculine build she doesn't think girl jeans look good on me and she also understands what's offered for male jeans is bad. If I wear girl jeans when we go out it's very hard to tell they are. If I want more feminine jeans and to dress more feminine I do this when she is at work and dress in a way to blend. I never wear anything to embarrass either of us. I listen and like to please her but she does not have the final say what I wear and same for her with me. Housekid said it well, if we don't like what the other will wear we don't go out with them, this hasn't occurred with us ??? yet ??? She has no problem with me dressing, it's something I was born with, she understands this. CDing can be a good thing too because I buy a fair amount of her clothes and help her pick out the rest, she is attractive, feminine and curvy. IOW two on the same page can make for an enjoyable shopping trip, so different than a macho male shopping with his wife that's "bored stiff/ aren't you threw yet/ let's go".

[Stephanie47]

I have to respond to Jodie_Lynn (#36) as to whether cis-women wear men's clothing. My granddaughter who is in college is drop dead gorgeous. She and my wife routinely have gone "thrifting" for men's wear for my granddaughter. Because of her body type and size many times she has bought male youth sizes of jeans because the pants fit better. She also likes the fact the jeans have pockets. She also loves men's flannel shirts. If you ever see my granddaughter wearing men's jeans and a flannel shirt, you'll see she has no desire whatsoever to emulate a man.

I think that's the point. The underlying reason for choosing women's attire is critical to the woman's mind. I think many women would view a husband's desire to wear women's panties, and, nothing more than women's panties, as a "quirk" or "fetish." However, to a wife who knows her husband is a cross dresser even the appearance of him in women's pants is a reminder of something she wishes he would not be.

Sometimes my wife borrows one of my graphic tee shirts and on occasion a black vee neck tee shirt. My wife is not trying to emulate a man.

[RachelPortugal]

She may ask "Does my bum look big in this?" If you answer truthfully she will be happy, she can go out knowing she looks good or she can change into something else. She could choose to ignore you, but then why ask the question in the first place. In a relationship both parties need to respect the others wishes.