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Thread: Control or Acceptance

  1. #51
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deebra View Post
    ReineD I disagree about hypothetical, it a good subject for CD's to discuss, some are wimps to their wives and others might have a little backbone.
    Well, you could have someone who has lots of backbone decide that he cares more about how his wife feels than wearing girl jeans when they are together.

    It's all a question of priorities and balance. It doesn't mean he can't wear girl jeans ever. Each situation is different, each marriage dynamics is different.
    Reine

  2. #52
    KatelynMae's SO KayC's Avatar
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    I wouldn't recommend any husband or wife taking/wearing each other's things without permission. It's a matter of consideration and respect. Same with purses/wallets.
    Enacting life's lessons into positive change...

  3. #53
    tiptoeing thru the tulips ellbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wifeling GG View Post
    As I said, it's a fantasy.
    And with that logic, transsexuals are also a fantasy.

    Hear me out...


    I am not a TS. None of my offline friends are TS. None of my immediate or extended family members are TS. None of my co-workers (past or present, and I've had a lot of jobs) are TS. None of my neighbors are TS.

    Ergo? TS's don't exist. They are a myth, they are a fantasy.


    See how absolutely absurd that sounds?



    Anyway, you want GG's wearing tighty-whities?

    A Google search so simple, that even I could do it. Just one example of many. Here you go (apparently she even uses her full name)...

    "It’s confession time. It’s not so much a secret as more of an oddity. My stomach is a bit in knots because I feel a bit like a traitor. See, these days, I’ve been rocking underwear that I didn’t get at a ladies store. Nah. I’m wearing the tight white variety that I purchased in the men’s section."

    https://www.itbysarahgschmidt.com/bl...it-than-womens


    Some GG's wear men's briefs, boxers, or boxer-briefs -- for all kind of reasons. Why is this so difficult to believe? Or do you think that only men have a lock on wearing underwear from the other side of the aisle?


    Easily seen, eh? Are you checking every GG's underwear now, are we?

    No, sometimes it is *not* obvious. Earlier this year, for example, I had overheard a 50-something GG co-worker telling someone how the hoodie she was wearing at the time was her *husband's*! She proceeded to tell them why (comfort, sizing, durability, etc.). Could there be other reasons, perhaps psychological, such as feeling closer to him when he wasn't physically around? Or possibly even physiological, due to his pheromones? (Here's a little more than that, for those interested... "Pheromones and their effect on women’s mood and sexuality"... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987372/ )

    Mind you, I had seen her wearing that very same hoodie multiple times prior to that conversation. And guess what? I had *no* idea it was from the men's section! Go figure, eh?


    Anyway, for those who are able to stomach something like this, here's a young girly-girl (some who may find annoying?) shopping in the men's section -- for herself.

    Over 2 million views...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqLza3RpOAI





    "Oh, but she's just doing that to attract attention on the internet, so she can make more money!"

    Okay, fine. But then how do you explain these random comments from GG's who watched the video...?


    "Honestly boys section isn’t that half bad I buy clothes there sometimes"

    "So, I noticed by now that Amber was the reason I started so shop in the men's section (even though I get really weird looks for that) and I am lucky I did, I found so many amazing clothes that fit me amazingly."

    "I love that I’m sitting on my couch in only men clothes😅😂 "

    "I'm 29 & I've been mixing & wearing men & women's clothing since I was a toddler. There's nothing "cool" or unique about it, it's just clothing. I know plenty of older ladies who do the same & they slap on some extravagant jewelry to add to their style or make it more feminine. Then again I work in the art world. I never understood why females, especially young females, never leave their comfort zone."

    "I just shop in the men’s section cause they got some awesome t-shirts and pants and they have shoes in my size. I shop in the women’s section then never wear the clothes sooooooo."

    "i actually found my favorite ever clothing article in the men’s section in forever 21!! it’s a huge oversized black and white fuzzy coat 😍😍 it’s so comfortable and also such a look lol"

    "ok but the men's section always has the best stuff"



    And plenty more where that came from.

    Oh, these darn GG's, perpetuating that "fantasy"...

  4. #54
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    Well its obvious she is super rich and thinks everyone wants to watch her on you tube.
    Such a huge ego she has.

  5. #55
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellbee View Post
    And with that logic, transsexuals are also a fantasy.

    Hear me out...
    The fantasy held by many CDers here, that women wear men's clothes, has absolutely nothing to do with transsexuals. Nothing.

    The link and video you posted: it's click-bait. Anything controversial, anything with big personalities and lots of pizzazz will attract clicks. It's a form of entertainment and is not representative of how the vast majority of women dress. This video got lots of views because Amber has hundreds of videos on her channel and has cultivated 2 million followers over time. A quick glance showed only this one video that had anything to do with women wearing men's clothes. The comments I read supported her, and were not a rallying-cry for women to start wearing men's clothes.

    Last, did you see the men's clothes she did buy? They're all clothes that you can find in women's stores as well. They're not purely men's clothes (the same way a dress purple leggings, bright red lipstick, or a padded bra are seen as purely women's item in our society), she actually bought gender-neutral clothes.
    Last edited by ReineD; 06-17-2019 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Struck out "dress" and added purple leggings, bright red lipstick, or a padded bra to accommodate a member's objections.
    Reine

  6. #56
    Aspiring Member abbiedrake's Avatar
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    Ellbee, everything Reine said but I'll go a little further.
    If you have to invoke the Internet as your sole source of proof then the point is already moot. If YouTube is gonna form the basis of your argument then you'd also have to admit that TidePodivores are actually a thing ffs.
    Talk about using the exception as proof of the rule. 😒 And that's without the numbers:
    300+ hours of video uploaded every minute. 5 billion views per day. You cited how many examples?!

    Wifeling's point was more that the women who buy men's clothing are so vanishingly small a constituency as to be statistically insignificant. Well within most margins of error and hence proof of nothing.
    Then there's your attempt to turn around
    what she said "And with that logic,
    transsexuals are also a fantasy." 🤦*♀️
    Here's an irony for you, as I type this
    Wifeling is lying in bed next to me, asleep. In a Superman tee-shirt of mine. She knows it, I know it. But neither of us would call her a crossdresser, nor would anyone who saw her in it. It's gender neutral. And here I'm ignoring that there are plenty of people now who take
    your point and run with it, that unless they have direct experience of a thing it must not exist. Flat-earthers come to mind, or those who suggest that TGs only exist as the product of a corrupt media because, crucially, they don't know any themselves.
    Please let's not take this down the reductio ad absurdum route.

    I've made the point previously that there's a world of difference between a GG wearing plain jeans and men's tee and most of us who will lean towards more stereotypically female-only attire, not to mention wigs, forms, shape wear etc. I stand by that because it really is comparing apples and oranges and this, I think, is where the original point and any discussion collapses.
    Is it unfair? Yeah, a little. I have used the term 'panvestite' more than once to make the distinction. But is it worth any great debate, is it worth invoking talk of 'rights'? No and no. There are far bigger fish to fry for both genders when it comes to equality.
    And then, on a far more personal level it
    always comes down to those directly
    involved. My wife's struggles with my
    dressing can be discussed by this
    community but me canvassing you all to see if I have a 'right' to dress wouldn't help at all. I could expect to find myself single if I decided that 'right' was more important than my relationship with my wife.

  7. #57
    tiptoeing thru the tulips ellbee's Avatar
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    Reine:

    Umm, are we following along, at all? Regarding TS's, I was simply using the same "logic" that because they are not present in my personal circle of everyday life, then they must not exist anywhere -- even though we already know full well that they actually *do*, albeit elsewhere! This is precisely the train of thought used by the person I was replying to. "It doesn't happen in my tiny portion of the world; therefore, it doesn't happen anywhere!"


    People can shut their eyes, put their hands over their ears, and scream excuses as loud as they want... But it still doesn't change the fact that quite a few GG's, for all kinds of various reasons, wear all kinds of clothing from the men's department! And this is certainly nothing new... This has been going on for a loooong time (well before the GG who made this YouTube video was even born, I may add ).

    It really is beyond belief that some refuse to accept this basic fact. Not sure what the big deal is. Maybe some really do have an issue, perhaps subconsciously, with people wearing the "wrong" clothes?

    And this is not some CD'er's "fantasy" trying to justify themselves or make themselves feel better -- this is real life. It's a big world out there, and nothing wrong with expanding one's horizon every now & then.


    Anyway, let me get this straight: So in order to be a CD'er, a guy must wear dresses now? Thank God for that bit of info -- because I don't own a single dress!

    Of course, I now wonder what I'm even doing here, then?

    But at least you qualified it with "in our society." Because we already know that in other places around the world, throughout history, including present day, that accepted men's clothing may be "skirts" or "dresses." Then again, "our society" is also quite diverse, arguably becoming moreso by the hour. So, you know... You may need to redefine "our society" in order to include these cultures & their customs.


    abbie:

    How much proof would you like? Would 10 examples suffice? 100? 500? And what exactly, in your eyes, "counts as proof"? So, examples (mine & others') from the internet are totally out of the question? Fine. If anyone would care to visit, I'll introduce them to the GG's in my life, past & present, who have either worn my guy-clothes as part of their daily outfit, or have worn guy-clothes that either they or loved ones own. Will that be good enough? Or will excuses be made for them, too?

    I can only lead a horse to water -- but I can't make it drink.


    Anyway, I will leave off with this. No frills, no qualifiers, just straight-up from the professional word-experts...

    cross-dressing noun

    : the act or practice of wearing clothes made for the opposite sex

  8. #58
    Aspiring Member abbiedrake's Avatar
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    The issue is not whether or not women technically crossdress but whether it's fair or not. And that's ignoring the colloquial connotations of the term 'crossdressing'. Quote dictionaries as much as you like but that won't change the fact that most won't understand it as applying in the same way as to men in dresses.
    As for citing the net, 🤷*♀️, the number isn't so important as its relationship to the subject. YouTube, in particular, is host to a variety of behaviours that none of us would argue are normal, much less prevalent enough to be representative of society at large. Arguments that an extreme is somehow normative is the fantasy. Neither Wifeling nor Reine argued that things outside their sphere of experience do not exist. That's your confection, not theirs. The contention remains that women wearing an item or two of men's clothing are not the same as the overwhelming majority of participants here. And of the few women who might go further they exist in such small numbers as to not warrant inclusion. Splitting hairs over technicalities of definition make no difference to the points made.
    Put another way, yes you're technically right, Ellbee. Some women do wear some men's clothing, so what?? 🤷*♀️
    What my wife called a fantasy was the idea that women 'crossdress' as frequently as most of us, or for the same reasons, or that society at large views both as being equal. Women wearing men's clothing was not the point of contention.

  9. #59
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    And to all that find fault and think I go on and on about the same subject...…..58 threads and it's still going strong. Even brought Reine out of retirement. What about new CD's, I'm sure they learned something. See when I post and I do very often I contribute and keep this forum lively with discussions. Good Job Deebra, Keep It Up.

  10. #60
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    58 posts or responses to your thread to be factually correct.
    You do go on about the same subject the proof is out there and people call you out on it all the time.
    Why you ask? Because you do.
    Last edited by Tracii G; 06-15-2019 at 09:37 AM.

  11. #61
    Aspiring Member abbiedrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deebra View Post
    And to all that find fault and think I go on and on about the same subject...…..58 threads and it's still going strong. Even brought Reine out of retirement. What about new CD's, I'm sure they learned something. See when I post and I do very often I contribute and keep this forum lively with discussions. Good Job Deebra, Keep It Up.
    I'm oh so utterly pleased you posted this, Deebra!!!!
    I've only been CDing for 19 months and only been on this site for 7 of those. And boy did you teach me a thing or two.
    I'm so very glad you're here. It'd clearly be utterly dead were it not for you gracing us with your profound and multifarious thunkpieces.
    Yep 58 super constructive replies right here. Super lively and, as mentioned, captivatingly edumacational.


    SMH


    Oh but credit where it's obviously due - YOU brought Reine out of 'retirement'....



    Your hubris reads like a gilded invitation to ad-hominem-ville.

  12. #62
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deebra View Post
    Even brought Reine out of retirement.
    Lol ..






    Quote Originally Posted by ellbee View Post
    Reine:

    Umm, are we following along, at all?
    I think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by ellbee View Post
    Regarding TS's, I was simply using the same "logic" that because they are not present in my personal circle of everyday life, then they must not exist anywhere -- even though we already know full well that they actually *do*, albeit elsewhere! This is precisely the train of thought used by the person I was replying to. "It doesn't happen in my tiny portion of the world; therefore, it doesn't happen anywhere!"
    A different example, not likening them to women who wear "men's" wear, might have been less offensive to our TS members and those of us who support them.


    Quote Originally Posted by ellbee View Post
    People can shut their eyes, put their hands over their ears, and scream excuses as loud as they want... But it still doesn't change the fact that quite a few GG's, for all kinds of various reasons, wear all kinds of clothing from the men's department! And this is certainly nothing new... This has been going on for a loooong time (well before the GG who made this YouTube video was even born, I may add ).

    What’s quite a few - 1%, 10%, 50%? The vast majority of women don’t buy their clothes in men’s stores because men’s clothes don’t fit them as well, unless they are into the slouchy, comfortable stuff for sleeping or hanging out in at home. There’s a large campus in my town where I take classes every semester. I can say that virtually NO young women or female professors look as if they bought their clothes in men’s stores. These women you write of - do they buy hanging-around-the-house clothes in men’s stores such as men’s flannel bottoms, large T-shirts and hoodies? These same things are found in women’s stores too, although likely not big enough to be as comfortable, depending on a woman’s size. Or do your friends buy men’s slacks, men’s polo shirts, suits & ties, and men’s dress shoes for work or going out in the evening.

    Please don’t confuse gender-neutral clothing with men’s wear. Of course both men and women wear gender-neutral clothing. There is even a store in our mall that doesn’t have a men’s or women’s section, it’s the same stuff for everyone! Mostly very casual clothing, not unlike the stuff we see in men’s and women’s casual clothes departments, except maybe more goth. I don’t think the average crossdresser would like to shop there though. The stuff wouldn’t be feminine enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by ellbee View Post
    It really is beyond belief that some refuse to accept this basic fact. Not sure what the big deal is. Maybe some really do have an issue, perhaps subconsciously, with people wearing the "wrong" clothes?

    And this is not some CD'er's "fantasy" trying to justify themselves or make themselves feel better -- this is real life. It's a big world out there, and nothing wrong with expanding one's horizon every now & then.
    No one wears the "wrong" clothes, although some wives may have difficulty with the idea of their husbands wearing women's clothes. But, CDers don’t do themselves any favors when they aren’t honest with themselves about why they wear women’s clothing. Rationalizing that if it’s OK for women to wear "men’s" clothes, it should be OK for men to wear women’s clothes, doesn’t help a person come to terms with their real motives.

    Quote Originally Posted by ellbee View Post
    Anyway, let me get this straight: So in order to be a CD'er, a guy must wear dresses now? Thank God for that bit of info -- because I don't own a single dress!

    Of course, I now wonder what I'm even doing here, then?
    The word "dresses" was a symbolic representation of items worn by crossdressers that non-crossdressing males don’t wear. It’s a short-cut. I can replace it with purple leggings or bright red lipstick. Or padded bras.


    Quote Originally Posted by ellbee View Post
    But at least you qualified it with "in our society." Because we already know that in other places around the world, throughout history, including present day, that accepted men's clothing may be "skirts" or "dresses." Then again, "our society" is also quite diverse, arguably becoming moreso by the hour. So, you know... You may need to redefine "our society" in order to include these cultures & their customs.
    Did I make you angry or something? If so, my apologies. I did specify our society, because I do know there are cultural clothing differences in other parts of the world. And I didn’t want anyone to go off-topic by getting into a long discussion about kilts, dhotis, sarongs, longyis, khangas, etc, or the fact there is a painting of Henry VIII wearing what would be defined today as a skirt. lol. Still, even in those places and times, there is/was differentiation between men’s and women’s clothing. A crossdresser in Henry VIII’s day would not have worn what he wore. He would have worn what one of his wives wore.


    Quote Originally Posted by ellbee View Post
    cross-dressing noun

    : the act or practice of wearing clothes made for the opposite sex
    Nope. At the age of 79 and on a limited retirement income, my father figured out that buying high elastane-content tights in women’s wear was much cheaper than buying the medical compression hose his doctor had recommended after his heart attack. This is not crossdressing. I bought a wonderful white linen men’s shirt to wear over everything in the summer, for sun protection. The women’s stores in my area had nowhere near the same selection in shirts. It’s gauzy and flowy and it doesn’t even look like a man’s shirt. That is not crossdressing either. It is gender-neutral!
    Reine

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    Sigh.

    I have no dog in this fight. I don't identify as a crossdresser and never have. At this point in my life I don't care what crossdressing is or isn't. I know I'm transgender and don't feel the need to use weasel words to evade that. I wear clothes that feel right for me and work for the situation, sometimes dresses, sometimes men's suits, sometimes shorts and T-shirts, sometimes skirts and T-shirts.

    I see women wearing (probably, based on cut, apparent pocket size, etc.) men's trousers from time to time -- I wouldn't say often, but probably a bit more often than I see men wearing (probably) women's trousers. I saw several this weekend at an art gallery, so maybe people just aren't looking in the right places.

    I feel terrible for people who are in relationships or life situations that stop them from exploring gender expression in a safe and satisfying way. And yes, a lot of those relationships can be fairly described as "controlling". For anyone who knows or suspects they may be trans and has the opportunity to avoid unaccepting relationships, doing so is fundamental to caring for oneself. I find it better without a doubt to be alone than to submit to the loneliness of being coupled unloved, or worse, loved for what one is not and hated for what one is.
    Quote Originally Posted by MissDanielle View Post
    If there's one thing I hate more than anything in the world: it's living a lie. And clowns.

  14. #64
    Senior Member Glenda58's Avatar
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    Wife knows I dress but doesn't want it around her That said she know I have only panties and all my jeans are women's plus most of my shorts for summer.
    GLENDA
    I FEEL LIKE A WOMAN

  15. #65
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    A partner in a committed relationship has a right to express their opinions and have them seriously considered and respected, but not necessarily obeyed all the time. You should listen, but the final decision is yours. A partner cannot issue directives, lay down the law, or deliver ultimatums. If they do, they do not see you as an equal partner but more as a subordinate or slave. If my wife had delivered the "No dressing ever." ultimatum, it would have been a deal breaker.

  16. #66
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    Thankyou Suzanne for the above #65 thread. Well said, that is my point, I agree.

  17. #67
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    I agree with post #65 too.

  18. #68
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    Call 911, I just fell out of my chair, Tracci G agreed with me.

  19. #69
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    If you can't work it out and agree on some points you don't have a good relationship and need to get on with your life.

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