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Thread: What if crossdressing were normalized?

  1. #26
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Bea,
    This is a very interesting question , maybe the first point is we are all crossdressers taking the standard definition , what other labels we chose to use simply tells people where we are on the TG spectrum .

    The question is when does is become normal ? Perhaps going on to ask when does it stop being crossdressing ?

    After more than a year I feel it's perfectly normal to wear clothes that show how I feel inside . Normal measn different things to different people , I feel normal because I'm accepted comfortably in the RW .

    For those who say it's a hobby normal would have a totally different meaning but would their normal be normal in the eyes of the public ? How would I feel if more men did it ? That's a tough one , if dressing is more to do with gender issues, blending in and being normal is more the objective but if a guy comes along dressed OTT and possibly upsets people we may all get tarred with the same brush . I persoanlly would be a little upset if I started getting disaparaging remarks because of the actions of others .

    I appreciate this question could be applied to many factions of society , you only have to look back to how hard it was for gays when they first came out back in the sixties .
    The real me ,no going back.

  2. #27
    Member Read only April T's Avatar
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    I wish we could all wear what we want. I don't crossdress to be elitist, I do it because I love it.

  3. #28
    Aspiring Member abbiedrake's Avatar
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    I get what you're asking Bea.
    I think the answer is that for some it would be great, being able to express oneself as one desires. For some it would be awful because the kick of transgression would be absent.

    Personally I would tend toward the former. I've always been somewhat different and I'd go as far as to say I like it that way. Not so much that I get a kick (and certainly not a sexual one) out of my differences but I'm good with them. I'd miss that a little. But it would be more than offset by a greater acceptance of how I would choose to present were my wife's feelings not a consideration for example. Ie. If society was such that CDing were 'normalised' then Wifeling would have no basis for complaint.

  4. #29
    Resident Polymath MarinaTwelve200's Avatar
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    If it were to be "Normal", then most of the "Thrill" would be gone

  5. #30
    Girl about Town Jodie_Lynn's Avatar
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    I think that Posts #28 & #29 hit the bullseye. If crossdressing were normalized, then the sense of scandal, taboo-breaking, titillation, and humiliation (yes, there are some CD's who get off of that) would be absent.
    Before you can love another, you must first like yourself

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  6. #31
    Miss Judy Judy-Somthing's Avatar
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    If it were normal for men to dress in anything the same as women the first thing I think I would do is light makeup.
    Like male actors do! And maybe color my hair, I would say 90% of women color their hair.
    "This is ME" I am not CRAZY, I'm just a GUY who likes dresses!
    Since allot of men dress up in woman's clothing that makes it a manly thing to do!
    Much more fun than fishing.
    I do construction like house building and I love CD-ing, what's the difference?

  7. #32
    Junior Member Bea_'s Avatar
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    Several people seemed to be bothered by the question in the title and I do see some validity to the concerns. A better question would be...

    "What if your preferred wardrobe were suddenly normalized to the point that most of the items you now buy in the women's section were available (and widely purchased by "normal" men) in the men's department?"

    In that scenario it would no longer be crossdressing which I think was the issue most seemed to have with the initial post.

    My answer would be that I'd still go to the woman's section to look for things that stood out from what most see as 'manly'. I'd like to see it normalized to the point where I felt comfortable and acceptable going out to the mailbox in a nice sundress, but not necessarily to the point where every man in the neighborhood was going out to the mailbox in a nice sundress. I like feeling unique. But, I dislike having my uniqueness turned into a joke or worse.

  8. #33
    Dana Matthews danam's Avatar
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    To me, crossdressing is exploring my femininity. If everyone wore the same clothes, and there was no difference between male/female attire, clothing would become irrelevant. I'd have to find a different method to explore my feminine side.
    Been around for a while, been away for a while. On the verge of coming back...Help me!

  9. #34
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSissyStevie View Post
    You could come to California where everything is "normal" as long as it's "different." It's full of people desperately attempting to express some sort of individuality but generally only succeeding in looking like morons. You won't raise any eyebrows CDing here but you might get a few yawns and eyerolls. I keep my CDing to myself. Other than that I like to dress as inconspicuously possible because I'm a loner and a rebel.
    What a grim and shallow assessment of a hugely diverse group of people.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bea_ View Post
    Several people seemed to be bothered by the question in the title and I do see some validity to the concerns. A better question would be...

    "What if your preferred wardrobe were suddenly normalized to the point that most of the items you now buy in the women's section were available (and widely purchased by "normal" men) in the men's department?"

    In that scenario it would no longer be crossdressing which I think was the issue most seemed to have with the initial post.
    Hi Bea

    To the degree that what appears in the "Men's Department" is the exact same as it appears in the "Women's Department" (other than, say, sizing), I'd have to find some other way to enable my feminine side -- to partly agree with what Dana Mathews said, dressing in designed/manufactured/...'d-specifically-for-women's clothing is a way to enabling that part of me that is dormant when I'm in men's clothes. On the other hand, I expect that there will be differences between the two -- the cut of clothes designed for women is different than for men (eg, hips, boobs, and butts on the one side vs a bulge on the other) so a dress from the women's department would be a bit different than the "same" dress in the mens ... and to that degree, I'd buy the women's department dress (in preference to the men's department version) and be quite satisfied. Also, there would be some things that are women- (and men-) only. Bras and athletic supporters, for example. I'd still buy bras.

    Now, this begs the question -- if there are some (purely technical) differences between two dresses, one in the men's department and the other in the women's ... would society as a whole "disapprove" of me buying the dress in the women's department and wearing it, in preference to the one in the men's? I'll assume that the answer is that it would be ok.


    That said, I also just plain like the physical feel/sensation of wearing female clothing -- so if dresses are available in the men's department as well as women's ... cool. The swish of the skirts, feeling of the fabrics, and so on would be the same, so it wouldn't matter ... and I'd be quite happy.

    I realize that these are sort of mutually incompatible answers ... but this whole dressing thing is fairly complex (to me, anyway) :-)

    One thing that I would _not_ do is say "Well, it's normal now ... so I have to go find some other way to be different" ... I've never (dressing/gender or otherwise) felt that I had to be different just for the sake of being different. If what I do is different ... so be it, if it's mainstream, so be it...

    Fran

  11. #36
    Member SaraLin's Avatar
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    Well...

    I guess the best answer I can come up with is by relating something that happens from time to time with my wife.

    She will occasionally point out that I can buy silky or even bikini underwear in the men's department and she asks me why I don't buy them instead, since they're likely to fit certain areas better.

    the best answer I can come up with is "because they're men's". I know it's a bit silly sounding, but there it is.

    The "why" of that sentiment is hard to put into words. About the best way I can explain it is simply this. I just feel more in touch with my 'inner self' when I allow myself to express my feminine side- even if only a little.
    Not having much in my physical reality that agrees with this inner sense of self, I have to resort to clothing to do that.


    If clothing that is now considered the realm of 'women only' were suddenly unisex, I'm sure I'd love being able to wear pretty things more - but I might find myself needing to find something else to express my inner girl.

  12. #37
    There's that smile! CarlaWestin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodie_Lynn View Post
    I think that Posts #28 & #29 hit the bullseye. If crossdressing were normalized, then the sense of scandal, taboo-breaking, titillation, and humiliation (yes, there are some CD's who get off of that) would be absent.
    Not so sure that I agree. I do like the intrigue and scandalous nature of being out in public dressed in a very feminine presentation. But, I know GG's get the same elation from the clothes they wear. You know, Natalie Wood spinning around singing, "I feel pretty! Oh so pretty!"

    Moment 1 p.jpg
    I've waited so long for this time. Makeup is so frustrating. Shaking hands and I look so old. This was a mistake.
    My new maid's outfit is cute. Sure fits tight.
    And then I step into the bedroom and in the mirror, I see a beautiful woman looking back at me.
    Smile, Honey! You look fabulous!

  13. #38
    Aspiring Member abbiedrake's Avatar
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    Anyone performing, in public, like they're in West Side Story is gonna stand out no matter what they're wearing. 😂

  14. #39
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    SaraLin, I can't agree with you more about those "silky" garments for men. The texture of the fabric just isn't the same, whether it's heavier or lesser quality I don't know. And even if everything else were the same, they wouldn't offer the same colors and prints that were get from the women's side of the aisle.

  15. #40
    Aspiring Member Cristy2's Avatar
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    Give it a little more time. It won't be much longer where it will be perfectly normal. Got to think, it wasn't that long ago where crossdressing could land you in jail. In fact, it is still illegal in many places, just not enforced anymore.

  16. #41
    Twisted Sister Patience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSissyStevie View Post
    You could come to California where everything is "normal" as long as it's "different." It's full of people desperately attempting to express some sort of individuality but generally only succeeding in looking like morons. You won't raise any eyebrows CDing here, but you might get a few yawns and eyerolls. I keep my CDing to myself. Other than that I like to dress as inconspicuously possible because I'm a loner and a rebel.
    On top of making a gross generalization, with this post, you’ve unwittingly (?) given away your location. Maybe you don’t care and that’s fine, but yeah.

    It’s true some people dress because they enjoy some kind of humiliation, but I’m sure that if crossdressing were normalized, they could easily find another way to debase themselves. People who crossdress for that reason evidently see it as something reproachable and therefore are not adequate allies in the quest for the normalization of crossdressing.
    Last edited by Patience; 07-12-2019 at 08:50 AM. Reason: I’ll tell you, but only if you beg for it.
    When all else fails, lower your standards.

  17. #42
    Aspiring Member Traci H's Avatar
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    The panty example does resonate with me. The suggestion that I buy some sexier men’s briefs just leaves me cold. Zero appeal. Now the comparison is not totally accurate as even though they are slinkier they never are close to women’s. Heavier fabric, crappy colors etc

    But it does give me a clue that I still like the taboo nature of wearing female garments, and if all started wearing, some of the allure would be gone. I am not fearful that that will ever happen however.

    I often stand in front of my panty drawer making my selection of the day. I am elated that I have a full palette of colors and fabrics to chose from, as the drawer sparkles with such. For me that is part of the allure as well.

    Bottom line to the original question is....”I just don’t know!”

  18. #43
    Senior Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Really? You think GG's sing "I feel pretty..." whenever they put on their clothes... Mmmmkay.
    Come on. Let's let go of the "This must be how women feel..." fantasy.

  19. #44
    Junior Member Bea_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traci H View Post
    The panty example does resonate with me. The suggestion that I buy some sexier men’s briefs just leaves me cold. Zero appeal. Now the comparison is not totally accurate as even though they are slinkier they never are close to women’s. Heavier fabric, crappy colors etc

    But it does give me a clue that I still like the taboo nature of wearing female garments, and if all started wearing, some of the allure would be gone. I am not fearful that that will ever happen however.

    I often stand in front of my panty drawer making my selection of the day. I am elated that I have a full palette of colors and fabrics to chose from, as the drawer sparkles with such. For me that is part of the allure as well.
    I recently bought some sexy men's bikinis on amazon and my wife ALWAYS makes nice comments when i wear them. I don't hate them and I work them into the rotation according to my mood and whether I'm trying to get the reaction from the wife. But, like you say, I love the range of styles of panties I've collected over the years. The daily selection process of deciding on briefs, highcuts, bikinis or a thong is still a bit of a highlight of the day for me.

    NOTE: The wife does occasionally compliment certain styles of my panties too. It was surprising to me to see her respond most favorably to floral lace string bikinis and to not care for nice satin briefs. I'd have thought it would be the opposite. But, panties have become totally normalized within our marriage. It's a nice place to be.
    Last edited by Bea_; 07-12-2019 at 09:06 AM.

  20. #45
    Aspiring Member abbiedrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly View Post
    Really? You think GG's sing "I feel pretty..." whenever they put on their clothes... Mmmmkay.
    Come on. Let's let go of the "This must be how women feel..." fantasy.
    ^^^ How would Bernstein and Sondheim know??

  21. #46
    Junior Member Bea_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly View Post
    Really? You think GG's sing "I feel pretty..." whenever they put on their clothes... Mmmmkay.
    Come on. Let's let go of the "This must be how women feel..." fantasy.
    My wife was/is one who always loved shopping for clothes. She's never sung the song as far as I know, but she definitely has enjoyed wearing nice things and gets and enjoys many compliments even now in her sixties. The compliments are mostly from other women but she was recently complimented on her style by a twenty-something male physical therapist who wished his wife would meet her. It's obvious that she feels pretty and I do my damnedest to reinforce that feeling, because I agree.

    If women, in general, didn't get something positive out of the variety and styles of clothes, the women's section would look more like the men's section.

  22. #47
    Member Thelise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patience View Post
    It’s true some people dress because they enjoy some kind of humiliation, but I’m sure that if crossdressing were normalized, they could easily find another way to debase themselves. People who crossdress for that reason evidently see it as something reproachable and therefore are not adequate allies in the quest for the normalization of crossdressing.
    I think this is a little harsh. I know what it's like to feel powerless and lash out at your home town (assuming). However, once it's on the net you're a sitting duck. I'd be a little more generous and say: try not to couch wallflower as "loner and rebel". Get out there and mess things up, or bite it and admit you're a homebody, for the time being at least. Hell, that's what I am at the moment. Got no problem with that.

    [SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

    Sorry, to be clear that post was in relation to the initial L.SissySteve post.... Eh, you'll figure it out.....

  23. #48
    Twisted Sister Patience's Avatar
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    Are you sure you quoted the right bit (or even the right person), Thelise?
    When all else fails, lower your standards.

  24. #49
    Member Thelise's Avatar
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    Um, I think so. I just scrolled down and checked too.

    [SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

    Oh, yeah. "Home state" is what I should have said.

  25. #50
    Twisted Sister Patience's Avatar
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    Well, Thelise, being new here and not knowing about this forum's little quirks, you can be given a pass for not knowing that threads can be closed if they’re seen to be straying too far from the point. That’s why I hesitate to answer.

    That being said, the bit of my post you quoted simply states that crossdressing fetishists are not adequate advocates for those of us who want to see crossdressing normalized as a form of gender expression. And not to be harsh, but the answer you provided seems to have missed that point entirely.

    And regarding the point you were trying to make, It’s not necessary to be a californian to object to a gross generalization about California, just as one needn’t be a woman to object to a gross generalization about women. It all comes down to a basic sense of fairness. Stop me if I’m being too obvious.
    Last edited by Patience; 07-12-2019 at 10:40 AM. Reason: I’m not gonna tell you.
    When all else fails, lower your standards.

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