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Thread: Thoughts on Thoughts?

  1. #1
    New Member
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    Feb 2016

    Thoughts on Thoughts?

    Ive not been on the site for a while and when I was I only really looked at other peoples posts.
    So, I guess I just have some ramblings. A stream of conscience.

    I crossdress in phases. Sometimes I want to cd really badly, and other times it does not cross my mind at all. Im typically very happy with my male form.
    Recently crossdressing has been on the up, and very much so. I attribute this largely to my wife and I watching through Sailor Moon and enjoying the insights of trans youtuber ContraPoints. A reaction of "they look pretty, I want to look pretty too." A bit of jealousy, especially towards ContraPoints. Maybe its because I don't actually have much exposure to the LGBT community. So I don't often see many trans peoples. I guess seeing someone so comfortable and confident wearing clothes that look nice but aren't made for them was a bit of a shock in way. "They're pulling it off, what's your excuse?" kinda thing.
    But that's always been the disconnect for me when I crossdress. Clothes just don't fit. I can wear them just fine, and they might mostly fit, but they just don't match the form of my body. That's just the way that is. Usually the shoulders are gonna feel all wonky or some other thing. So I end up feeling pretty, but its 80% pretty feeling and 20% just goofy. If I look in the mirror, I might look decent and pass okay, but I'm still clearly a man wearing girls clothes. And that sucks. I want to be comfortable and I don't want to see myself as a man wearing girl clothes. But a man wearing girl clothes is what I am and is what crossdressing is? Lets suppose I get a custom made shirt for my body that happens to be "girly." Would that do the trick? I dont think it would. Id just be wearing a mans shirt, so it wouldn't even be crossdressing. The point is that I want to wear women's clothes and see myself as a women.
    And I do identify as a man, but maybe I am less confident in that assertion than I previously have been?
    I remember when I first got to this site years ago and people were mentioning some sort of "pink fog?" Where people might get too excited with their corssdressing and begin thinking about being trans but only in a half-hearted non-serious way? That if they sat down and gave some serious thought with openness to themselves that they'd find that those feelings weren't genuine. I kinda dismissed the "pink fog" notion as ridiculous back then and was a consequence of people not taking trans ideas and stories seriously. Kinda like how some crossdressers will dive into the stereotypes of femininity that can make the whole thing feel like a blackface equivalent for women. If that makes sense. But, I dont know. Maybe this "pink fog" notion is what Im feeling. And is that just gender fluidity under a different name?
    Maybe I want to say I'm gender fluid, but its hard for me not to see the proliferation of labels as trendy and feel opposed to using them. Even if gender fluid is one of the way tamer labels. Or maybe I just suck at buying clothes. I just don't know.

    Im sure something in all this is obvious to someone else but not myself. I guess Im looking for thoughts in general? Some more refined insights from people actually involved in the LGBT community or just from some people who have been here for a long time and have thought about it for a long time. I don't think I'm looking for anything specifically. I just don't know.
    Last edited by Andar; 07-16-2019 at 09:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Aspiring Member sarah_hillcrest's Avatar
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    Aug 2017
    Rosebud, Illinois downstate
    I have felt and thought about the same things, in some cases almost exactly the same.

    I can comment about the pink fog because I've been through it multiple times now, I have two different opposing opinions.

    Opinion 1. I get all excited about crossdressing and the pink fog settles in, which leads to a stronger desire to identify as a woman, which leads to more extreme thoughts about permant changes, which leads to the idea that I'm transgender, which leads to a massive reality check, I realize that I've been deluding myself, that I'm just a crossdresser that gets off emotionally at playing dress up, maybe a little humiliation, and the fog subsides.

    Opinion 2: The pink fog is not just some temporary loss of sanity, it's the euphoria that comes from being true to ones inner self. The pink fog only goes away due to my fears, I've essentially scarred myself out of being my true self and retreated in the face of overwhelming societal pressure.

    I have no idea which one is right, or maybe they both are.

    I'm totally with you on the labels, I feel like each subsequent generation feels the need to rename stuff.

  3. #3
    Yeah Ok like whatever Tracii G's Avatar
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    Aug 2008
    Between here and there but mostly here close to the donuts.
    Just be yourself and don't worry what they call it this week
    Head Executive Chief of the Dept of Redundancy Dept.
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  4. #4
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    The state of flux, U.S.A.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andar View Post
    The point is that I want to wear women's clothes and see myself as a women.
    So, gender identity dysphoria. The disconnect between what you are, and what you want to see yourself as. Doesn't necessarily mean that you're TS, but then again, maybe it does.
    The conflict is this:
    And I do identify as a man.
    But do you, actually? The desire to dress, see yourself, and be seen as a female, doesn't match what you say your identity, is. You want to reaffirm your masculine self, perhaps because of the tremendous pressures society puts on us to reject & dismiss any and everything feminine about ourselves. But something is also making you want to behave and appear completely as a female.

    Only you can determine how to deal with this. Many simply crossdress as often as we can in order to satisfy the desire to alleviate the cognitive dissonance which our minds may always have to deal with the feeling of need to be identified as female, while also knowing that everything else about our personality is actually male.

    We don't always get to choose how we feel; we only get to choose how we will react to it.

    Introspection might help you figure out why you feel to be one thing, while also trying to dismiss that completely in order to affirm being the opposite.

    Perhaps start, by looking back on your life, and trying to identify just when you initially felt the desire to self identify as female. It may not be the first time you crossdressed, but rather, the first time you wanted to, felt that you might not be like other boys, or maybe the first time you wanted to be like a girl or like girls in general.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  5. #5
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    As far as feeling unassured when dressed , it really is a matter of learning what actually works for you . I can't do the middle ground or MIAD so I had to get the whole package together and work on it . That also means the right wig , colour matched makeup and clothes that suit you . I wonder if your wife wanting you to be " Pretty " may be a mistake but at least she is on board with you which is great

    We do have to take care of the Pink Fog taking over , going OTT if your in the closet is fine but stepping out in the RW we can't let it take over but that depends on how you want to present yourself in the RW . I just go about my business as the girl next door , it works for me and I'm happy with it .

    It might be worth finding local social groups so you can meet other members of the TG community .
    The real me ,no going back.

  6. #6
    Aspiring Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    Dec 2016
    Denver, Colorado

    First, what you are experiencing is something we all experience at some time or other. That doesn't make it any less important because it is important as it goes to the heart of figuring out who you and each of us are in the total identity package. Difficult task, but entirely solvable.

    As Teresa pointed out you need to find what really works for you and what expresses what you feel deep, deep inside yourself. It appears to me you are in the exploration phase; you are trying different things to find something that is really comfortable for you. Your wife is trying to help as she senses some conflicts in you - women are really good at sensing such things and men are far less able to do that. It is in our nature whichever you are.

    Being "pretty" is an art and it takes a great deal of practice and learning. But it is a rare male that can look as pretty as most women look when they make themselves really pretty. (About $150,000 worth of surgery helps a lot, but even then your shoulders will be too big. But some women have wide shoulders, so don't sweat it - adapt to what you have.) The ability to be really "pretty" not only takes the right body shape, but it takes a lot of direction from inside along with years of experience. It is the inside part where we as CDs and TGs tend to be weak and that creates frustration as the result doesn't really fit the image you conceived of. Nothing you can do about that - you have to work with what you have. But maybe the image you envision is not even possible. So change the image to fit what is possible.

    Women's clothes are made for the female body and the female body has a mountain of differences from a male body. Our shoulders are wide, theirs are narrower. So women's clothes are often tight in the shoulders. They have a broad hip area with a larger, fuller behind. So down there their clothes often make us look like we are wearing a tent as we can't naturally fill out the waist and hip form the clothes are made for. So, for most of us, fit is a horrible problem and it never comes out quite as good as it does with a woman. If you are wealthy you can hire a dressmaker to make dresses that fit you perfectly and nobody will know the difference. Once again, adapt to what is possible and not what is ideal.

    The so called "pink fog" is a very real thing. I think your comparison of crossdressing to blackface is probably a bit too strong, but the idea is a good one. There is a lot of imitation going on in some of us, but not all. That is not really the same kind of imitation that blackface is or as insulting and disrespectful, because males can have well defined feminine/female identities that they express genuinely. Labels have probably done more damage than anything else. Unfortunately, without labels it is hard to talk about something. Just don't take them too seriously - next year some will disappear and be replaced with new labels - for awhile. What is important is what you feel and not which group you fit into.

    Interacting face to face with other people that are more or less like yourself can help you find and define yourself without the need for labels. Thus, finding a support group might be helpful. Those are usually very accepting irrespective of whether you are well defined or unsure and vague. Their purpose is to help others, much like it is here. But face to face interaction is far more effective than the impersonal world of the internet. I found the support group was actually better than what I got from the therapist. She taught me the "theory," the support group taught me the practical aspects which is where we live.

    So, keep working at it, but I suggest you stick to the process of being you rather than some goal that may not even be possible or a good fit for you. If something doesn't work try something else until you find things that you find comfortable. What you are really shooting for is finding that something that makes you happy and comfortable, content and calm. It may be a blend of masculine and feminine clothes or it may be closer to the whole deal. Forget about ideals and go for comfort and contentment, whatever that is in you and you alone.


  7. #7
    Banned Read only
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    Aug 2010
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Andar, as a longtime CDer and buyer of women's clothes I FEEL more comfortable in them than in men's. Perhaps I know what to buy, correct sizes and my body fits well in them and I FEEL good and right wearing them. I have a dozen bras I wear but one just FEELS so nice with my D forms. I have come to enjoy wearing a thong and tucked rather than a bikini and love looking like a girl down there and how the "no-package" FEELS. Yesterday I went shopping wearing girl sandles, thong and mid thigh girl shorts. Tried on girl tops with help from female SA. Enjoyed how much cooler the shorter girl shorts felt than male and how feminely nice the clothes FELT walking in them, the way they hugged and fit my body (that included the noticeable flat front in shorts) rather than dressing male. Being out dressed female is much nicer than as a male. I'm turned on dressed female when out, I do FEEL girly while doing this and so nice feeling like this. This is to let you know how comfortable I am as a CD so perhaps you just need a little more time to learn what girls already know.

    One more thing I would like to mention, in the Fall I wear booties, girl pants and top; I feel I look so much nicer and the clothes fit my body better than wearing guy shoes, pants and button up shirt (boring). Can't understand why society can't see this as acceptable gender fluid.

  8. #8
    Aspiring Member
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    Jun 2013
    Midwest, USA
    My advice is - don't over think this

    I came to the realization many years ago that I was just driving myself crazy trying to sort out the Crossdressing thing. I decided I would just take what I enjoy and enjoy it! without worry about where I fit in some list of labels and definitions.

    I found, to my frustration, that many of the types of clothing I would like to wear just don't fit me very well without modification. So I had some alterations done! (to the cloths not me!!) and I got better at shopping.

    Find your own self and don't worry about what definition you fit into. I would advise you to consider what your wife thinks and others who are close to you, sometimes we can get to wrapped up in what we want and forget about the ones around us.

    I hope this helps

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