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Thread: How many here think, There should be more known about cross dressing by now

  1. #1
    Junior Member Natalie_393's Avatar
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    How many here think, There should be more known about cross dressing by now

    I’m not sure how many others noticed this but if you ever try to research the topic crossdressing By either Internet or books it’s very tough to find articles or information just relating to that topic specifically. Yes I know there is many many publications, articles, books, and information on trans gendered studies but where does crossdressing fall into this? Is the reason still truly unknown?
    Just to be clear I truly support anybody that is transgendered But for me being a cross dresser, I’ve recently been trying to research as much as I can about the topic specifically cross dressing But believe me I have come up short many times trying to get some where

  2. #2
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    I think with so many of us in the closet they may have a big problem finding people to interview. Sure they can find drag queens, and maybe talk to some of the gurls at Diva Las Vegas, but I think the majority of us are simply under the radar.

  3. #3
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    A big part of the problem is that the general public thinks they already know all they need to know about us. Either we're gay or TS to the rest of the world. Or they think we are, but are just in denial. There's no rush on anyone's part to understand us, because they don't WANT to know us. No matter how nice you are, do you think anyone really wants a crossdresser as a neighbor? Nope, probably not.
    Then, you have the problem that a large percentage of crossdressers probably don't want to know why they want to do it, because the reason may be completely unacceptable to him. We're raised to believe that the most horrible, terrible thing in the world for a little boy, is to be feminine in any way. Both men and women use feminine pronouns, adjectives as insults toward us. look at how many can't even think of themselves without creating a separate persona, and refer to that name in third person in order to distance themselves from the feminine things about themselves. Oh, that's not ME, not the 'real me', that's 'jane doe' or whatever name they create.
    Last edited by sometimes_miss; 07-31-2019 at 11:25 PM.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  4. #4
    Yeah Ok like whatever Tracii G's Avatar
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    We are such a small segment of the population why should they bother to find out more?
    They have a preconceived notion albeit incorrect of what we are and don't want to know any more.
    Head Executive Chief of the Dept of Redundancy Dept.

  5. #5
    Silver Member Bobbi46's Avatar
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    Also some people (I don't mean any of us) live in a bubble they feel no need or want to know any more than is surrounding their little world. Its those in a way who create the misconception of what we really.
    To pick up on a point " who wants a crossdresser as a neighbour" where I live I guess none of my neighbours in there own mindsthought about this but when I was seen by my neighbours there was no animosity towards to me and we are all good friends for eachother.
    But I guess this is one fortunate situation in many? I believe it comes down to basic ignorance with the populace either by not wanting to know or even thinking we don't excist.
    Programmes on TV when they come up concerning gender subjects (and there have been several very good ones on British TV) I wonder how many people seeing such on a schedule would think I will watch that or do they think " thats not for me its dirty and kinky", if so that tells me there are lots of blinkered people out there who in fact should be broadening their horizons, especially about learning about us and when having done so would garner more compassion, acceptance and understanding for us in general
    I started life a lost man now I am a found woman

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    Rachel Rachelakld's Avatar
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    It used to be associated with late night dark ally paid sex - not something the general public would research.
    Last edited by char GG; 08-01-2019 at 05:23 AM. Reason: Sorry, no religious references please
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  7. #7
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    Hi

    My quick guess ... there is no obvious reason _to_ research us.

    I've worked in both commercial and academic research. The dirty secrets of the research world are A) to get funding, there has to be some kind of benefit that results B) for someone to research something, they have to see it as advancing their career in some way, and C) you kind of have to know where it's going before you start. The notion of "pure research in pursuit of knowledge for its own sake" is rather quaint.

    Funding and Benefit:
    So what's the benefit by researching us? We're not so large a community that a corporation will see in us a market for some product that they can make a ton of money by selling us something specifically for us. Heck, many of us even reject stuff specifically aimed at us, like "panties cut for the male anatomy".

    There's no political pressure to make politicians pay attention to us.

    We don't have a disease or the like that could cause trouble to the rest of society. Yes, there are people who think we are trouble, but for the most part, data, statistics, and science would not change their mind.

    We don't _seem_ (to "everyone else") to be a community in trouble that needs help in some way.

    Knowing more about us _might_ make it easier for society as a whole to accept us ... but the worst of those who reject us do so for reasons that studies and science can't fix.

    Career:
    Researchers, scientists, etc, won't press to research us because there is no money, no glory, no one will get a Nobel for it. We're not trendy or fashionable. Another part of the research "business" is that each program has to end with a hook to go back for more funding ... there is no obvious hook like that, nothing obvious that a researcher could say is "the next step after learning X is to Y"

    Know where it's going
    Funders don't like it when a grant application says "We'll look at X, who knows what we'll learn". To them it's too risky, sounds like a boondoggle. To politicians, it sounds like they are being frivolous with the public's money. They like it when the application says "We'll study X, learn Y, which is important because Z" Yes, it's always possible that the thing that makes us want to CD leads to some fundamental thingie (maybe a snippet of DNA? an environmental exposure? ...?) that is the first little step on the path to Something Big (eg curing cancer). But that does not seem plausible. Anyone proposing to research us with a grant application that says that it could lead to a cancer cure would be laughed out of the room.


    Some of this is a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" kind of discussion ... but in my experience, that's pretty much the way things are, unfortunately.

    Fran

  8. #8
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    Unless a CDer appears on someone's radar, many people don't even know that they exist!

    When my SO first learned about CDing, he was researching commercial photographers. A photographer that specialized in CDing pictures came up.

    Sure, we've seen comedies on television and movies but didn't realize people really lived that life.

  9. #9
    Gold Member alwayshave's Avatar
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    Natalie, my wife who accepts my dressing, did her research in psychology books and was relieved that the vast majority of crossdressers are heterosexual. But she has a background in psychology, so she went the library, not google.
    Please call me Jamie, I always_have crossdressed, I always will, "alwayshave".

  10. #10
    Senior Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    FWIW, Rice University has an ongoing research project on MtF crossdressers. Last I heard the survey was still in validation, but this, AFAIK, the only real study of the CD population in decades.

  11. #11
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    I think that the reason there isn't as much information on crossdressing these days is because the conversation has shifted to gender identity. I would argue that, today, as soon as a young person discovers the desire or inclination to crossdress, they are steered towards the topic of trans identity, which has become a trendy subject of both conversation and research.

  12. #12
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    Aunt Kelly
    Do you have any pointers to the rice university study?

    Thanks
    Fran

  13. #13
    Aspiring Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    Besides all the great reasons Fran gave, within the gender identity research community the emphasis is on the more TS folks than those who do not have such a pronounced shift in identity. The main reason for that, according to the literature, is that at this point the search is for the fundamental causes of the behavior and determining whether it is an acquired behavior (learned) or is an innate behavior (mostly genetically driven). Some studies have been done on those TG folks that are not TS, but not a lot.

    I have been studying both popular and peer reviewed literature for several years now. I have yet to come across anything that specifically deals with crossdressing where some kind of gender reversal is not present. So, basically with not many researchers in this field, the priority is on the more advanced form of this behavior which will eventually lead to a bit more examination of the others. That said, it is unlikely that crossdressing will become of much interest to the research community until the stronger forms are figured out. And even then it will likely be viewed as simply an extension of the more advanced forms. It is not really as strange as people like to think it is.

    With the most current concepts of gender forming a mosaic of a couple hundred traits and characteristics and statistically a continuum and only slight statistical evidence of an actual gender binary, crossdressing becomes just another variation in the extreme complexity and high diversity of behavior exhibited by humans within regard to everything and not just gender. That big brain we have and its ability to perceive complex things using a tiny scale it is not surprising this is the case. Also with over 3,500 genes involved in some way with gender behavior development and management, not finding any clear cut boundaries anywhere is to be expected. Not at all surprising.

    Enjoy your behavior as much as you can because, in the big picture, it really isn't all that unusual compared to many other behaviors. It is just a matter of society's desire to pigeon hole everything with labels and use highly simplified concepts of what is that makes it stand out. Just like so many other things like skin color, eyelid shape, speech patterns, etc. We like to make distinctions when there really aren't any of any real significance and we do that by cherry picking the information we use and throwing out anything that doesn't fit some preconceived notions of what should be and what is. As wonderful as our brains are, they do have a tendency to draw fine distinctions and then magnify those far, far more than they should. It is only human, even though it doesn't actually represent the objective reality.

  14. #14
    There's that smile! CarlaWestin's Avatar
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    Quite possibly, there isn't anything else to research. I mean, there doesn't seem to be any holy grail of incredible knowledge that needs to be disclosed.
    Look how gender definition has been baloney sliced down to the infinity zone of type description. There's every imaginable designation except normal.
    I've waited so long for this time. Makeup is so frustrating. Shaking hands and I look so old. This was a mistake.
    My new maid's outfit is cute. Sure fits tight.
    And then I step into the bedroom and in the mirror, I see a beautiful woman looking back at me.
    Smile, Honey! You look fabulous!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlaWestin View Post
    Quite possibly, there isn't anything else to research.
    Hi Carla
    I would think that there are some interesting things to research WRT cross dressing. For example,
    How many people do it? MTF? FTM?
    When do they start and what is the “motivation” or spark to “get it going”?
    How often does “mere” crossdressing evolve/segue into dysphoria and transgender?
    What is the distribution of cross dressers among all of the different subcategories?
    How many end up living/presenting in a primarily female manner?
    Is cross dressing correlated with other, non-gender-related, things?
    What are the general demographics of cross dressers? Why?

    And all the other questions and topics that we often chat about here ... for which we have no hard objective numbers.

    I don’t know what insights or fundamental truths we would get from knowing all this ... but it would be interesting, never the less.

    Fran

  16. #16
    Aspiring Member sarah_hillcrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonicaPVD View Post
    I think that the reason there isn't as much information on crossdressing these days is because the conversation has shifted to gender identity. I would argue that, today, as soon as a young person discovers the desire or inclination to crossdress, they are steered towards the topic of trans identity, which has become a trendy subject of both conversation and research.
    Yes, this is what I believe, and I also think it makes perfect sense. Everyone is different, but considering that one the first things I asked on this forum was what is the difference between CD and TG, and was given the answer "5 years" I think many of us understand that CD is a stepping stone to TG for many. I just did a google search and read about the European Network for the Investigation of Gender Incongruence (ENIGI) is the largest study of transgender people in the world.

    I think an argument could be made that TG is being pushed too hard, what could be interesting and very worthy of study is the many people here who have integrated a female persona and male persona, perhaps staying male but creating a female alternate identity as many of us do is actually far more healthy then transition.

  17. #17
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Natalie,
    Basically we are all CDers possibly until we transition . I can't speak for all but most are CDers under the TG umbrella . If you want more of an insight into CDing then you may have to look at TG information to find what makes us tick . To me the clothes are the window to the RW of how I truly feel inside , I now no longer consider it CDing as I'm out full time , in fact you could say I'm a CDer when I wear drab ! To repeat Eddie Izzard's quote , " They're not women's clothes but mine ! "

    There is so much information and first hand experience here on the forum I can't understand why you need to search elsewhere , just ask the right questions and you will get plenty of answers . Also the archives are a great source of information .

    It's no good asking the general public because there is still a great deal of misunderstanding .
    The real me ,no going back.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    There is nothing public yet. They have completed a pilot survey and are working to get a validated set of questions. If their selection of population allows it, I will post a notice here when it goes live.

  19. #19
    Gold Member Alice Torn's Avatar
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    Sometimes Miss, Very well said and thought out. I could not have said it better.

    [SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

    Tracii, Well said. Sad but true. This world is a cruel world, and has never been fair , and never will be, until a Strong Hand from way out there intervenes.

    [SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

    Well said Bobbi. Few people are willing to really try to learn and understand, and do homework on this, and many other issues. It's all black and white to so many.

    [SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

    Monica You are so right on this, and it is so sad! Boys who may actually just liking girls clothing, may be cds and not trans. It is wrong i think, to pressure boys in many ways, including to push that they they be overly macho, or competitive, the opposite. Sad world.
    IT TAKES A REAL DRESS TO WEAR A MAN.

  20. #20
    New Member JLove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by char GG View Post
    Unless a CDer appears on someone's radar, many people don't even know that they exist!

    Sure, we've seen comedies on television and movies but didn't realize people really lived that life.
    This is pretty close to the way it was for me! Until I met my CD BF, I really knew nothing about the issue, so hadn't given it any thought or consideration. When he shared his story with me, I went home and did an internet search for articles that would help to educate me, and I found one in particular (written by a hetero male CD) that was really helpful in giving me a better idea of what the whole thing was and was not.

  21. #21
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Exclamation Wait! I must have missed something!?

    When and where on THIS SITE is there a posted consensus, definition for what a "Crossdresser" is?

    I've certainly never seen just one!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  22. #22
    Silver Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alice Torn View Post

    Monica You are so right on this, and it is so sad! Boys who may actually just liking girls clothing, may be cds and not trans. It is wrong i think, to pressure boys in many ways, including to push that they they be overly macho, or competitive, the opposite. Sad world.
    Monica, Alice,

    It works both ways. Half? of the problem is adults, parents, who think little girls should wear pink and grow up to be princesses. Stereotyping is a two way street.

    As for the OP, I think it's easy to overlook the advances that have been made. It's generally accepted that CD'ing isn't an illness for which there's some magic cure. Gender fluidity along with CD'ing gets far less ridicule and far more sensitivity in being portrayed in the films and on TV. Yes caricatures still appears but even those seems to be treated with greater sensitivity. And in truth what is there to learn? Perhaps CD = gay is a falsehood is the biggie, the separation of sexuality and gender but whatever further advances there are to be made I feel society has moved significantly towards a position of accepting CD'ers as being no big deal. It's a fact of life. Folks may not understand it in the same way they can't understand why some folks would vote for one politician and not another or love or hate an actor.

    We're part of a diverse society. Thankfully attitudes are changing for the better albeit at the moment some forces work against change. We have to learn to accept that as we're different so there will always be others who take a different view. What we can hope for is that the "others" will be in a mall minority.
    Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed

  23. #23
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    I am not convinced there is a justification for research on this. I regard cross-dressing as nothing more than wearing women's clothes and no big deal If it is about gender ID then it is something more and not just cross-dressing. If you were to attempt to research this, the number of variables is huge and coming up with answers would be almost impossible. I do not regard cross-dressing as a problem, and I don't think the public in the UK regard it as a problem. So why research it? I would prefer more fashion advice in newspapers and magazines accepting us as a valid part of the market, aimed at how men can dress better in skirts and dresses and make fashion truly gender neutral.

  24. #24
    Aspiring Member Maid_Marion's Avatar
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    Medical libraries are a tremendous resource. I once had a medical library pass at a hospital as a patient!

  25. #25
    Junior Member Natalie_393's Avatar
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    Thank you Everybody for all great insights, and thoughts! this site has always been a great resource

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