Don't Box Me In

[JulesLynne]

For better or worse, I believe that labels are just a part of human nature and they are neither inherently good nor evil. It all depends on the context.

Think of it this way - one of my hobbies is cycling and I have several bikes. To my non-cyclist friends, I have 3 bikes. But to my cycling friends, I have a mountain bike, a triathlon bike, and a gravel bike. And to my gravel bike friends, I have a Specialized Diverge (not to be confused with a cyclocross bike) set up for gravel touring - Shimano 105 components, front and rear pannier racks, hydraulic disc brakes and currently debating tubeless tires. My triathlon cycling friends wouldn’t know the first thing about pannier racks even though we’re all cyclists who sometimes ride on the same bike paths/streets but sometimes venture down quite different terrain even though we’re all on bikes of some sort.

The gender and crossdressing spectrum is no different. Sometimes I’d like to reach out to a TG woman because I’m curious about a particular trans woman topic. Sometimes I’m looking to chat about balancing my CD life versus my wife and kids, and it’s useful to be able to focus my search within that particular community, or maybe even get an opinion from a CD spouse. And sometimes I just want some advice on pantyhose or breastforms and don’t really care if the opinion comes form a straight CD or a gay trans woman or a gender fluid androgynous person or anything in between. Don’t get me wrong - there’s tremendous value in getting opinions outside your particular bubble. But on average, triathlon bikes are very different from gravel bikes, mountain bikes, touring bikes, etc.

Hope this all makes sense. There’s a time and a place for labels as long as they’re used with respect and within the proper context.

[wanabe-Leona]

I'd like to just throw in a little humor on labels as Willie sang " I'm just an OLD HIPPIE and I don't know what to do " well really an old crossdressing hippie and I can take and live that label enjoying it through life. Forget to say I don't fit into the box ( too big ) but I can find a dress!

[GretchenM]

I hate labels as well. It divides the continuum that we all form into groups and that does not represent reality. The reality is the continuum. Of all the responses to this invigorating subject, I think Aunt Kelly hit bulls eye the best, in my opinion. Others were also on that track. The labels are just a way of communicating effectively about some subject. Unfortunately, a lot of people like to take those labels are get tribal about it all. Humans do that a lot. It is part of the formation of an us/them approach to relationships that is sometimes healthy but other times very unhealthy. I suggest to the OP to just let the labels roll off and continue to embrace the idea that, when it comes to CDing or whatever, and live in the real world as a majority of one that comes from your uniqueness. And everybody else is a majority of one. Then the labels become simply a communication tool. But if others want to be tribal, that's OK so long as they don't try to impose that on others. My 2 cents worth.

[Angela Marie]

As some have pointed out labels are an integral part of our daily communication. I think that those who use labels to address us, whether crossdressers, transgender, etc. are simply using the generally accepted lexicon; and I have no problem with that. If, on the other hand, it is used to humiliate, discriminate, etc. then yes it is inappropriate. How people treat me and their attitude toward me is much more important than a label they may use.

[Amelie]

I think that one has to decide what label they use to describe themselves. It shouldn't be up to others to decide what label they are, even if they fit into a certain label.

As some said labels do help to communicate but how many here want to wear a label cd or transgender when they walk about town. Most here write posts of how they want to blend in, blending in means not labeling oneself while out and about. Again, labeling and talking about one self on a forum is OK but to have to label themselves as they walk about seems uncomfortable. There were even post where the question was what to do if one encounters a cd in public. Most said leave the person alone, they probably don't want to be known as a cd, they want to just go about their day as a woman.

Take the label gay, we all know what that label means but there are some in society that engage in gay sex but would violently argue with you if you called them gay. There was a segment of society that I grew up with in the Bronx and they had the belief that only one man is gay during sex with each other while the other was straight. And to tell the straight guy he was gay would have been met with violence upon the person saying he was gay. Same goes for some bars I went to. There would be an obviously looking man, the only thing he was wearing a dress. Another man would have sex with this man and not label himself as gay, even though the label fits. I am on a forum for sex workers. I can't use the word they use cause cd.com banned the label they use. The men on that site love these girls cause they still have their male naughty bits. And no matter how much these men adore the maleness of these girls if one was to call these men gay, they would get very angry. I called them gay just to get them angry.

There was a guy who I met in a bar and he demanded to be called a woman even though he didn't have any woman traits. I had a long discussion with him about it, I was with the old style girls and thought one should try and look the part. But he was either honestly a woman or a very good debater, cause in the end if that was what he wanted and who was I to say otherwise.

I started my journey before there was a word transgender. Some say the word transgender is old but among the girls I knew in the streets and bars, none used the term transgender. Now that a group of elite scholars, psychiatrists and political activists now say that is the label for me, why should I accept it? I was OK living my life without that label, why should people put upon me a label. The label might describe me but I might not want to be part of an umbrella. Same goes for a cd who was a cd before the label transgender came about. Maybe they want to known as a cd and not the broader term transgender.

I am for choice. I believe it's up to each individual to choose what they want to be known as. Anyways whose to say that 5 or 10 years down the road these scholars decide that a new label should be used. Does that make the old label wrong. I think using labels to discuss matters like on a web forum is cool. It does help to describe things. But out and about the world is much different. One just wants to live and do their business without a scarlet T on their dress. Labels are ok if the person wants to use that to describe themselves. If the person doesn't want to use a certain label then it's up to others to accept that.

[Georgina]

On a lighter note, and not disrespecting the thread, where would you be without a label on your panties? Maybe there is some comfort if the labels you associate with are the same as used by others concerning you.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm not sure I agree, Jenny. Just because u define yourself as a bricklayer doesn't mean u must agree when someone says all bricklayers r ignorant. Does it?

Labeling yourself as nothing simply means u may have no concept of who or what u r. U r branding yourself as an outsider!
Sorry if I'm boxing u in. But, u have only yourself to blame!

Very diverse group on this site. The only thing we have in common is we like to wear panties

Wrong, Paulie! I, for one, am NOT a pantie fetishist!

[Teresa]

Sherry ,
While I'm not going to put words into Jenny's mouth I believe she's suggesting people wish to box her in to make her comply . OK the boxes do exist and there is a need for them in circumstances as others have mentioned but should not be used to control another person .

I had to use boxes to find myself , especially when I was in counselling , they needed a peg to hang my hat on ! As Amelia also comments in the RW they have limited value , we don't get into conversations with people where we need to use them .

[Palaina Nocturnus]

Amelie said what I was babbling on about, except she said it clearly lol

[Aunt Kelly]

I think that one has to decide what label they use to describe themselves. It shouldn't be up to others to decide what label they are, even if they fit into a certain label.

So a label, a word with a specific meaning, no longer applies because you say it doesn't? Everyone else knows what "crossdresser" means, but they're all wrong because you say so? That's the intellectual equivalent of closing your eyes and chanting "you can't see me..."
Again, I don't think it's the label you're objecting to as much as it is the misuse of that label by others.

Again, labeling and talking about one self on a forum is OK but to have to label themselves as they walk about seems uncomfortable.

What does that even mean? What does "labeling" one's self by walking about look like? Does it hook in the front, or the back? How is it sized? What size is the type?

Take the label gay, we all know what that label means but there are some in society that engage in gay sex but would violently argue with you if you called them gay.

So that means what? That they're not really gay because they're to ashamed to admit to what they clearly are? Sorry, but that's nonsense. Two cis males having sex is pretty gay, bisexual at a stretch.

I started my journey before there was a word transgender. Some say the word transgender is old but among the girls I knew in the streets and bars, none used the term transgender. Now that a group of elite scholars, psychiatrists and political activists now say that is the label for me, why should I accept it?

Ah... Now we get down to it. "Elite" being the Tea Party code word for "people who are smarter than me", you chafe at the authority that you believe shouldn't apply to you. You're special and all the words that reasonable people use to communicate with each other should not apply to you because... what? Politics?

Please...

[suzanne]

Categorization is a strategy that has been with us since we were in caves. It helped us survive and evolve by making the world easier to understand but it doesn't serve us very well anymore. Now, it seems, categories are used by those who want to control or oppress others by minimizing their human uniqueness.


Rather than saying something fits or doesn't fit a category in a binary sense, we can now express the degree to which something fits by using fuzzy logic. That's a term that probably turns off the binary thinkers who believe fuzzy suggests a lack of rigor or commitment.

So now, instead of saying I am trans, I can describe myself as a percentage on a transness scale, because I fit the trans category in some ways but not in others, and few people, if any, fit in a box 100% to the exclusion of all others. And our minds are big enough and flexible enough to accommodate each other as individuals rather than occupants of a given box.

So go on being who you are and think as little as you can about whether you fit this stereotype or that, or any for that matter.

[docrobbysherry]

One of your best posts, Auntie! We use commonly understood terms to communicate, to understand each other.

As far as I'm concerned, u can call yourself Yankee Doodle. But, I may think of u as a nut case!

On the other hand, if I call u Yankee Doodle does that mean u have to believe u r him? Of course not! So, most of this "boxed in" talk is nonsense!