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Thread: Respecting the comfort zone of others

  1. #26
    Senior Member Jean 103's Avatar
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    To be afraid of something that is not there . This is a support site, as such that is what you should expect.

    Why do you care what a complete stranger thinks?

    Now if you are in the closet for any reason, than the fear can be justified.

    I was there,now I'm out. Two completely different worlds. Has the world changed? Not really, well mine has a bit, as I am completely without fear.

    The real difference is I have accepted this is me and let go of the shame.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertacd View Post
    Because flat out this is no different than saying you are fine with someone who says "Serving black people is outside my comfort zone" and black people should think about that before they go into a place of business.
    The problem with your statement is the lack of differentiation between a casual encounter with a sales associate with no potential consequences and other situations where there may be consequences. In many states there is no legal protection against discrimination in employment, housing, public accommodations, etc. Gays, lesbians and transgender men and women are not universally protected in the United States. Gender expression is not covered also. Please read any of the numerous articles on the internet or local newspapers. In states which do have legal protection for the cited groups there is nothing to compel friends, family neighbors, coworkers, church members and others to socialize or mingle with you.

    I know people who will not interact with African-Americans. That is permissible when socializing. It is not permissible under federal law in public interactions/commerce/employment. Your analogy is faulty. My point is you cannot categorically state "Do it, Nobody Cares!" There is always the exception, and, when and if that occurs nobody on this forum is going to suffer the consequences except one person.

  3. #28
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean 103 View Post
    To be afraid of something that is not there . This is a support site, as such that is what you should expect.

    Why do you care what a complete stranger thinks?

    Now if you are in the closet for any reason, than the fear can be justified.

    I was there,now I'm out. Two completely different worlds. Has the world changed? Not really, well mine has a bit, as I am completely without fear.

    The real difference is I have accepted this is me and let go of the shame.
    So the OP puts up a post that says “Please don’t ‘closet shame’ those of us who aren’t ready or comfortable for whatever reason” and you’re going to come in and literally try to ‘closet shame’ her for saying that?

  4. #29
    Girl about Town Jodie_Lynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micki_Finn View Post
    I?ve said it before. Crossdressing isn?t a race or a contest. You?re not a ?better? dresser because you only wear panties and threw out your boxers, or because you go out every weekend or whatever.
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  5. #30
    Vespa Vixen AngelaYVR's Avatar
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    The shop staff always know it is for you! Asking about the wife or GF is just to put you at ease. I can remember actually buying dresses for my wife and being treated like it was for me until I told them it was to fit 5 foot 5 and size 4. I hope one day you can overcome your fears and truly enjoy the shopping, Danielle.

  6. #31
    Gold Member Alice Torn's Avatar
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    Each person has come from a different background, and genetics, and personal challenges. I suffer lifetime emotional illness and some mental illness and childhood abuse issues. We can't really understand another's fears and struggles completely. I have always has some uneasiness when buying womens things in front of cashiers and other shoppers watching. Some have very real danger of losing their marriages, family, or careers if found out, too.
    Last edited by Alice Torn; 12-29-2019 at 08:22 AM.
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  7. #32
    Member Kimberly A.'s Avatar
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    Danielle, I totally understand that..... Also, (not that you meant for this to be directed towards me), but I can't help but feel that it was. I say that because I made a post of encouragement, as I'm sure you read, to the members of this forum who may want to go out dressed but are still hesitant to do so. I tried my hardest to respect their feelings on it. I only wanted to encourage people because of how much fun, excitement and enjoyment I get when I go out dressed. I feel like Kimberly is the girl inside of me who has ALWAYS wanted to come out and now she finally can.
    Personally, I am much more comfortable and happy when I go out dressed as Kimberly than I am when I have to be myself..... But, if other members of this forum are afraid to go out dressed and never will and their minds are made up on that, then I totally understand and respect that. We all have our comfort zones and different levels of our CDing.
    I may be crazy, but I'm BURIED in your memory!

  8. #33
    Member HelpMe,Rhonda's Avatar
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    Have felt some of that shaming here once in a while. But have also been inspired to do a little more than in the past.

  9. #34
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    My response to this is advise is just that. You get it then decide how to use it or you disregard it completely. No body is forcing you to go out and just get over it, nor can they. People say that in Hope's that it will ease the fears of those who are worried about it. Belive me we all know the fears and anxiety that can be had. Some of have gotten over it and we are aware others have not. Those who have have seen the freedom and ride the high it brings. Because of that we might advise just do it nobody cares nobody notices. If you are not at that point in your journey then ignore them don't feel like you are less of a person or anything else. The best advice any one can give you is be yourself an you do you, what ever that entails. If you do that and you are happy that is all that really matters.

  10. #35
    Aspiring Member DanielleDubois's Avatar
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    Firstly, I didn't anticipate my little post generating so much debate but I will chalk it up in the positive column.

    Secondly, I am overwhelmed by all the articulate responses, especially from a number of regular contibutors here whose comments, advice, opinions, AND encouragement I have come to respect and admire.

    Thirdly, I definitely I did not meant to criticize any of the encouragement and real life experiences posted here and was not singling out any particular poster. In fact, it is one of the main reasons I joined the forum a few years ago and hopefully I too have offered some helpful advice and encouragement to some members. It has taken me more than 50 years to internalize that my crossdressing does not make me abnormal and is not harming anyone. I still have occasional pangs of guilt and shame but that has been tremendously reduced by the support I have received on this forum.

    Perhaps putting things in a non crossdressing context would better explain what I was trying to say in my original post. No matter the amount of encouragement or reassurances, there is no way I will ever be sky diving out of an airplane. You can tell me "the only thing we have to fear...is fear" itself but I am content and comfortable that I have no desire to and nothing to prove to myself by jumping out of an airplane. For the skydivers out there I admire your courage and respect that you are comfortable doing it.

    By the way, as mentioned in my posts I have bought Danielle stuff in person and will continue to do so occasionally. However, for me personally I still find it stressful and do it as a necessity and not because I enjoy it. Maybe it can be a New Years resolution to do it more often and see if makes it more relaxing

    Once again, thanks for all the thoughtful responses.
    Danielle
    Last edited by DanielleDubois; 12-30-2019 at 11:23 PM.

  11. #36
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    Hi Danielle,
    from Beenleigh (+mid 50's) so not far away , i've been out and about on the GC a few times and many times in Brisbane , do you go out in public much?

  12. #37
    Senior Member Jean 103's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micki_Finn View Post
    So the OP puts up a post that says ?Please don?t ?closet shame? those of us who aren?t ready or comfortable for whatever reason? and you?re going to come in and literally try to ?closet shame? her for saying that?
    I didn't say anyone is shamed or whatever.

    I said that this is what I went through and experienced.

    There are real things to be afraid of, like for me, get that "me". I haven't seen my wife in about five years.

    Besides you are not talking about a real person here are you?

    If your child comes to you and says there are monsters under their bed what would you tell them?

    Would you have to first go and look?

    A 50 year old man is afraid to walk into a store buy a pack of gum, is there something here to be afraid of?

    Do you first need to go and see? How are you going to know that everything is going to be the same when they are there?

    I suggest you check her last post.

    True story, a local woman like in her 80's was given a skydiving jump for her birthday, with an instructor of course. Her first and only jump. They both died, it didn't open.

  13. #38
    Twisted Sister Patience's Avatar
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    Part of the reason some folks get nervous is that they feel they are doing something wrong.

    It?s helpful to remind oneself from time to time that crossdressing is not illegal.
    ...and though she feels as if she is in a play, she is anyway...

  14. #39
    Aspiring Shopaholic BTWimRobin's Avatar
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    It's semantics .... I look at it as expanding my comfort zone. Each time I go shopping I try to push the envelope just a little more. Thanks to all the support and encouragement I receive from all the girls here I am able to do that.
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    Because life is too short not to.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly View Post
    Look, I get it. All of us have been there at some point, but that does not make those irrational fears any more rational. I submit that it is not disrespectful to point out that reality. The worst thing one can encounter is laughter and/or sarcasm.
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by Micki_Finn View Post
    and the only way to get over that fear is to confront it head on so you can know that there is nothing to fear.
    'Nothing to fear'? Uh, not exactly. No, the worst that can happen is that you get noticed as a crossdresser, and it gets back to people you know, or people that hate us. While the incidence of CD or TG violence is rare, it still happens, and it's not irrational to want to avoid it. Not everyone wants to be a front line warrior in the social wars going on about what's acceptable, and what is not. I grew up being an outcast, teased mercilessly, and have absolutely no desire to repeat that experience just to 'support the cause'. It's not irrational to be cautious of the people who want to hurt us. Ask any woman if she no longer takes any precautions when going out alone at night, if those precautions are foolish because there's 'nothing to fear'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patience View Post
    Part of the reason some folks get nervous is that they feel they are doing something wrong. It?s helpful to remind oneself from time to time that crossdressing is not illegal.
    That's not the reason. The reason, is because a certain percentage of the population still believes that in their mind, 'we are doing something wrong', and deserve to be punished for it.

    I'm frequently amazed at the number of threads started by people who have never had any adverse responses to their going out en femme, so they just automatically assume that there never are any, based on their own experiences. That's not how life works. Just because nothing has happened to YOU, doesn't mean that everyone else has that same experience.

    I stand by my advice. Before doing something, consider the worst possible outcome. If you can accept and deal with that, then proceed. If not, then reconsider what you're about to do, because as they say, you can't un-ring a bell.

    In my lifetime, I've seen many people go ahead with their ambitious, optimistic plans, because of the 'Oh, it happens to others, but surely, it can't happen to me' thoughts....and then 'it' happens, and they have no idea of what to do, once the stuff hits the fan, and their life is changed forever, permanently.
    Last edited by sometimes_miss; 01-01-2020 at 05:50 PM.

  16. #41
    Aspiring Member TheHiddenMe's Avatar
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    Nonsense.

    Do you know a FAR greater risk than a guy going out dressed as a woman?

    It's getting in a car and driving. That's the riskiest things most people do on a day to day basis.

    Around 35,000 to 40,000 Americans are killed in car crashes annually, or roughly 100 a day.

    How many on this board smoke? That is a far bigger risk than going out dressed.

    How many are overweight? Ditto.

    If we all considered the "worst possible outcome", none of us would drive--or fly, or eat food, because they all have risks.

    If you are trans, and you're a sex worker, yes, you have a higher level of risk.

    But if you're not, the biggest risk isn't driving in a dress, it's driving.

  17. #42
    Senior Member Kandi Robbins's Avatar
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    It amazes me that so many allow the opinions of anonymous people online to shape their beliefs about how the world actually works. It is different for each and every one of us, all dependent upon our personal circumstances and sometimes simply time and place. This is a world where children are killed at school, worshipers are gunned down at services and concert goers may not make it home alive, there are risks in even the most mundane activities.

    Go out of you are comfortable, if not, then don't. But don't blame the "world", that's an excuse. I have been out hundreds of times, in thousands of places, in front of tens of thousands of people, never a single negative experience. I fool no one. Now that may change tomorrow, but I do have to live my life. What you read here should be factored into what you decide, but it certainly shouldn't dictate how you live your life.
    Last edited by Kandi Robbins; 01-04-2020 at 04:07 PM.
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  18. #43
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    "I stand by my advice. Before doing something, consider the worst possible outcome. If you can accept and deal with that, then proceed. If not, then reconsider what you're about to do, because as they say, you can't un-ring a bell."

    Miss,

    I think I understand what you are saying. However, if people follow your advice, no one would go out, and that includes cisgender people! The being able to accept and deal with a possible death situation (worse case scenario for us living creatures) from a car accident, robbery, hate attack, or whatever is always present in today's world of increased violence everywhere. If you modify your advice to read "...the worst probable outcome.." then it makes more sense to me. The worst, worst situation may happen, but it would be extremely rare and would make no difference of how one presents themself. So, picking the right location, venue, time of day plays a big part in the probability game.

    I think that what most people who encourage others to go out are naturally assuming is that the adult on this site reading that recommendation has enough maturity and common sense to be careful where they go and what possible and probable reactions they might expect based on their being there. No one is saying go everywhere anytime alone. I also do not believe that those of us who have gone with zero "adverse response", I am one of those, assume that nothing ever happens. You are assuming all of us adults are innocents, and we definitely are not. Yes, anyone can get complacent in their own safety considerations, and sometimes, and rarely, do they/we get adverse or dangerous and harmful reactions. Yes, it does happen, but it is rare.

    I believe that our encouragements to others to go out automatically (and many times they are clearly stated by someone in those threads) include that they should use common sense to maintain their personal safety, including the chance of verbal insults. Since I joined here many years ago I have heard many people say the "sky is or will be falling" if they go out while the number of negative stories here of their outings into the real world are miniscule when compared to the positive ones. So, yes if one goes out be smart, safe and have fun. Also, only go out if you want to and you are ready to. We are encouraging you not coercing or pushing you to go out.

    Danielle,

    Thanks for the further clarification. I do get your situation. Yes, you have offered a lot of good recommendations and support for others and please keep doing so. This is a good thread and had stimulated a lot of good conversations,

    Thanks ..... Allie

  19. #44
    dress to feel the energy Shely's Avatar
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    I remember in a GW store some time back when a little lady SA said, while buying several pretty dresses, "Oh that will look nice on you" all I said is "I hope so" and took my change and left. it didn't bother me enough to say anything smart, in fact I kind of got a kick out of her knowing that I was going to rush home and put them on. Who cares what others think?
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  20. #45
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes_miss View Post
    and

    'Nothing to fear'? Uh, not exactly. No, the worst that can happen is that you get noticed as a crossdresser, and it gets back to people you know, or people that hate us. While the incidence of CD or TG violence is rare, it still happens, and it's not irrational to want to avoid it.
    Yes, and a meteor might fall on one's head. Please...
    The OP was talking about fears about interacting with merchants. Of course, if you live in a small enough community, or shop close to home, you run the risk of running into someone you know. If that would create a problem for you, that is a rational fear.
    The fear of encountering haters with violent intent is also an irrational fear. Yes, of course, it does happen, but most of those cases you hear about involve the victims doing things that are high risk for any woman. The odds of that happening during a shopping trip are infinitesimally small, so bringing it into the context of this discussion is just silly.

    Finally, risk assessment is far more than deciding if one can accept the worst possible outcome or not. I pity anyone who would use that metric to make decisions about how they will live their life. Fear like that is crippling.
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  21. #46
    Gold Member Alice Torn's Avatar
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    In small towns, like where i live, if a well known townsperson went out and was outed, it would badly hurt his reputation, or business, and family. The times i went out CDing were far from where i lived, so there was little chance of being recognized. If my relatives, some friends, business associates had found out, i would have had hell to pay. I did tell several friends, and church people about Alice, and none of them were pleased, but a few tried to understand, but said i need to overcome it and stop. Not one GG i was interested in, accepts it, too. I know that in many bigger cities, it is more tolerated and even accepted. And police are far more neutral and professional than ever before.. Some police officers are CDers too, from posts i have seen on here over the years! But, if I went out all six foot six of me, 265 lbs, and seven feet tall in high heels, here, i would be the laughing stock of my apartment complex, and town, and life would be very difficult.
    IT TAKES A REAL DRESS TO WEAR A MAN. See my photos and videos on FLICKR - Alice Longstems.

  22. #47
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    In recent months, I have made several fairly long posts about the benefits and fun of shopping in person. I will not repeat them here. But I will say this. My intention has always been to encourage, not to shame. And if someone fails to succeed the first time, I want to urge them to try again rather than feel like a failure. It almost seems like those who feel judged have not yet learned to stop judging themselves.

    I was once deeply closeted and afraid to even walk into a dress shop, as has everyone in this forum at one time or another. I remember how many times I tried to enter a shop then chicken out and leave after a quick pass through a single aisle. I remember very well how hard it was to walk in and ask for what I wanted. And the relief I felt when the SA and managers accepted me so readily. These people now treat me more like a friend or family member than just a mere customer. How glad I am that I eventually pushed my fears aside. I want that for everyone in this forum.

    I want those still closeted to add a word to their vocabulary: yet. As in "I can't shop in person YET" I hope my meaning is clear. Encouragement, not judgment.

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